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A Little Letter from John Ashcroft and Tom Ridge to my dad

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posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 01:07 AM
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My father went on a trip to Washington D.C. this week. When he got home tonight, he opened his bag, and found a note inside of it that I would like to quote to you.


Transportation Security Administration
Notice of Baggage Inspection

To protect you and your fellow passengers, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is required by law* to inspect all checked baggage. As part of this process, some bags are opened and physically inspected. Your bag was among those selected for physical inspection..

During the inspection, your bag and its contents may have been searched for prohibited items. At the completion of the inspection, the contents were returned to your bag.


It goes on to explain that if the bag was locked, the TSA may have to break that lock to gain entrance for inspection. "TSA sincerely regrets having to do this" it says. The sweet little asterix makes note of the said law, Section 1109b0 of the Aviation and Transportation Security Act of 2001, 49 U.S.C. 44901(c)-(e). I thought it was a cute footnote.

I have one other document to quote to you. It is known as the Bill of Rights. The Fourth Section reads as follows:



The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


I guess it was my dad's fault for traveling. Or maybe he shouldn't have been one of those Americans, you know how dangerous they are. I mean, hell, he's of Italian descent, that's closer to Afghanistan than we are, right?

Before you reply with anything asinine, I realize we were attacked with airplanes, I realize that terrorists may be among us, threatening us. But know this: our Bill of Rights is not be respected. We walk around, guilty until proven innocent. They don't care what your name is, what you've done, where you're going, they want us all jumping at shadows, and fighting against each other. They have not stolen my rights, they have stolen our rights as human beings to live with privacy, respect and a sense of dignity. This war has not stolen from us only the lives of 3,000 Americans in New York City and Washington D.C., not only the almost 1,200 dead kids in Iraq and Afghanistan, but has taken from us the very fabric this nation was built upon. They have torn the heart out of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and the sad part is, their mad rush for more power over us destroys not only our lives, and the lives of our children, but threatens them and the lives of their children as well.

This must end. We can no longer stand by and watch our rights and powers sacrificed for theirs. This country was founded upon th ideal of the majority of the power resting in the hands of the people, not the government. We must take this power back.

Before you paint me as a radical anarchist, let me stress to you that the answer here is not to fight with hands, weapons, or violence of any kind. You do this by electing someone who will be willing to surrender the executive powers that have been so brashly ressurected, someone who will dissect organizations like FEMA, who have much more power than they were designed for, someone who will throw out the Patriot Act, and realize that surtrendering our rights in time of war is no excuse. There is no security in a nation that is thought of in this manner. We are not free men who stand in the light of liberty, but criminals who will be searched, seized, and thrown into the blackest hells of dungeons deep, and labeled enemy combatants if you disagree.

We must use this election to make this stop. I will not tell you who to vote for, I will leave that for you to decide. But when you enter that booth, really think about what you are voting for. Take off the blinders, and see the real truth. Our rights are evaporating. It's our duty, at this decisive juncture, to commence the condensation of Justice, that we may once again dance in the rain of Freedom.

God bless each and every one of you. I will pray for you, for us, and for tomorrow.

- Dom




posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 01:32 AM
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Welcome to the new America.



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 01:36 AM
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Wow. Thats kind of like finding a search warrant under your rug a week later. Sickening state of affairs when you can be searched even without you knowing it, let alone without any probable cause, warrants, or probably even documentation there of... Well if you guys remeber all those "radicals" that were raising concerns over the Patriot Act, this is why...



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 01:39 AM
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I guess better in your case not to have your bags inspectied than be blown up trying to get to your parents for Thanksgiving dinner. Given the choice, I'd rather find the note than die. I have nothing to hide.



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 01:43 AM
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Originally posted by dcgolf
I have nothing to hide.


Which is why you shouldn't be searched


I know it's a topic that can run in circles into perpetuity, but would you rather have Thanksgiving dinner with your family and be treated as a criminal until proved otherwise, or have the rights guarunteed to us by our Founding Fathers remain undusturbed? I never said it was necesarrily an easy question to answer, but I do not think that the answer should be that hard to find. The American Government has too much power over the American people. If they can come into our houses and question us for dissent, if we cannot enter a Presidential rally without giving our Social Security Numbers, then something is fundamentally wrong with our nation. You cannot deny that.

I would rather die a free man than live in a world in which I cannot feel alive.

- Dom

[edit on 30-10-2004 by RockerDom]



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 01:51 AM
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Unreasonable is expecting to be protected from terrorism without something as fundamental as baggage searches.

I am becoming more and more amazed at the kinds of thinking I am seeing on these boards.

Your safety and security are not achieved by magical means. People work very hard to protect you, and in exchange for that, they are maligned by those who have no idea about what is actually going on. Nice.

Yes, reasonable people actually do read what is posted here, and yes, searching baggage checked on TSA-protected carriers is reasonable.

I can't be the only one who is shocked that I even have to explain this.

Childish carping is not the way to Deny Ignorance.



[edit on 10/30/2004 by Majic]



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 01:53 AM
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While I do not in any way, shape, or form agree with the loss of rights associated with the patriot act. As a person that used to work in aviation, this is nothing new.

There where times when a bag would have to be removed when it was vibrating to be checked by a baggage service agent, or when a lost bag with no Identification has to be opened to find out to whom it belongs.

There are certain rules you agree to when you fly, even back in the pre-patriot act days. Some of those rules require that you waive certain civil liberties. Its the airlines aircraft and while they have to post those rules somewhere (usually in small print on the ticket Jacket); basically, if you do not like them, as far as their concerned you can walk.



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 02:02 AM
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Originally posted by RockerDom

Originally posted by dcgolf
I have nothing to hide.


Which is why you shouldn't be searched


I know it's a topic that can run in circles into perpetuity, but would you rather have Thanksgiving dinner with your family and be treated as a criminal until proved otherwise, or have the rights guarunteed to us by our Founding Fathers remain undusturbed? I never said it was necesarrily an easy question to answer, but I do not think that the answer should be that hard to find. The American Government has too much power over the American people. If they can come into our houses and question us for dissent, if we cannot enter a Presidential rally without giving our Social Security Numbers, then something is fundamentally wrong with our nation. You cannot deny that.

I would rather die a free man than live in a world in which I cannot feel alive.

- Dom

[edit on 30-10-2004 by RockerDom]


I flew on an airplane less than two weeks after 9/11 to Las Vegas. I don't mind an extra five minutes to help my safety. Actually, one month later I flew to Mexico. I arrived at the airport at 5 am for a 7:30 flight. I have no right to complain. It is all about safety.

I understand many people may feel the need to have absolute freedom, but this comes with risks. Our founding fathers did not live in an age of terrorism and hatred. Suicide bombers did not exist back then.



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 02:04 AM
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I Don't know how to feel about that!!



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 02:13 AM
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John Hancock, Thomas Jefferson and the like did not know about Islamic hatred and the perception of American dominance. There was no way they could have forseen the current events. Much like we have no way of knowing what will happen one hundred years from now!



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 02:28 AM
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Much like the citizens of germany lived in fear of terrorism from Poland huh? Will the screams of your neighbors as they are dragged off for dissention going to be enough to call your attention to a serious problem developing?
Before you say it won't ever come to that, dude, people are getting arrested and detained for wearing the wrong tee shirts at bush events...



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 02:54 AM
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Originally posted by dcgolf
John Hancock, Thomas Jefferson and the like did not know about Islamic hatred and the perception of American dominance. There was no way they could have forseen the current events. Much like we have no way of knowing what will happen one hundred years from now!


Yes but they did know about the 'indian' problem. We round them all up and put them in camps after stealing their land and force them to convert. Talk about a rape of a culture. I see no difference here. Islam is getting in the way of power hungry corporations intent on getting oil and whatever else floats their boat at the time, but it sure the hell don't have anything to do with a patriotic nature of good america or helping them.

Just think Americans went to war for the idea of being taxed less than 20% from the Brits and claimed our independence. Hell Americans today do not care if we are bent over and rammed do you see anyone bitching about 50% of your income being taxed? The government sure doesn't care that it's raping you. It's too damn big now. It's beyond the comprehension of those working 9 to 5 and paycheck to paycheck. We just muddle through and accept whatever happens with an opinion.

Any organized mutiny would be quickly shot thorough with tear gas and rubber bullets and clubs. Americans know this and the government knows this so what are you going to do about your freedom when those in congress are the sons of wealthy sons? Very few in congress today know what it is to be a real American one who works his arse off for a paycheck instead of inheriting the whole damn thing and being sent to harvard to take daddys place.

Our society has become as aristocratic as france and as fraudulent as Russia when it comes to politics.

The America of the Jefferson era is dead and so are the ideals of those mens freedom. They died long ago.



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 02:57 AM
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Originally posted by dcgolf
John Hancock, Thomas Jefferson and the like did not know about Islamic hatred and the perception of American dominance.


Really? They fought with muslim pirates and signed a treaty with them. I for one would rather take my chances on being killed by a terrorist then live in a country where I or my property can be searched by the government on the whim of some lackey


Is the fear so great and the need to be "protected" that we are willing to give up every shred of freedom and privicy for "safety"

I never thought I would live to see the day we would BEG the government to take away our freedom to protect us from a problem they created to begin with



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 03:10 AM
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Note to self before travelling by commmercial airlines:

"Leave contraband at home!"



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 03:12 AM
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LOL No Doubt Grady!
Make sure you don't have any anti-bush literature on you either. During the RNC there were people being escorted off busses for having the wrong books you know.



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 03:13 AM
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Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by dcgolf
John Hancock, Thomas Jefferson and the like did not know about Islamic hatred and the perception of American dominance.


Really? They fought with muslim pirates and signed a treaty with them. I for one would rather take my chances on being killed by a terrorist then live in a country where I or my property can be searched by the government on the whim of some lackey


Is the fear so great and the need to be "protected" that we are willing to give up every shred of freedom and privicey for "safety"?

I never thought I would live to see the day we would BEG the government to take away our freedom to protect us from a problem they created to begin with


What muslim pirates did they fight with? Would you really rather die than have your house searched by government officials? If a government official came to your house tomorrow, wolud you take a bullet in the head as opposed to letting them search your house. If so, I respect you more than words can express!



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 03:20 AM
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Originally posted by Amuk I never thought I would live to see the day we would BEG the government to take away our freedom to protect us from a problem they created to begin with.


In reference to airline travel consider the following. When you fly, you are travelling aboard a vehicle which is privately owned and you have paid a fare for those services. Given the vulnerability of aircraft to high explosives and the general vulnerability of passengers in flight, it is not unreasonable to expect that the federal agency in charge of flight safety would want to inspect baggage carried aboard or checked aboard a flight.

If you want to ride in my car, I reserve the same right. If you have a problem with that, you can walk.



The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. [empahasis mine]



[edit on 04/10/30 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by dcgolf
What muslim pirates did they fight with?


The Barbary pirates. "From the Halls of Montezuma, to the shores of Tripoli," to quote a favorite hymn of mine.

www.globalsecurity.org...

www.google.com...



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by dcgolf
There was no way they could have forseen the current events. Much like we have no way of knowing what will happen one hundred years from now!


dc, I'm curious as to your opinion on the right to bear arms, is that outdated too?

I'm seeing an interesting and largely unspoken dichotomy coming from some US members. Those who are very keen to retain their right to bear all sorts of firearms under the justification that they will be used to preserve their rights, are often the first ones to defend the erosion of those very rights in the name of security.

Now I personally don't have a problem with submitting to searches when flying on a plane, you'd have to be pretty foolish to take anything illegal on board anyway with the other forms of security in place. But the duality in the opinions of some members on these issues is quite interesting. I would have thought those advocating gun rights would be the first ones objecting to the current destruction of citizens rights?

I acknowledge there are many who are in that position, but they seem to be by far in the minority, I am curious why that would be the case.



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 03:36 AM
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Originally posted by Kano
But the duality in the opinions of some members on these issues is quite interesting. I would have thought those advocating gun rights would be the first ones objecting to the current destruction of citizens rights?

I can explain that one Kano, the right to bear arms is the only check or balance left to the citizenry of the US. Each branch of our government was given power over the other branch to prevent any one of them from grabbing power (this was long beofre coporate lobbyists btw). The only balance we have is our right to bear arms.




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