WITNESS TO A HATE CRIME: Legal advice, anyone? , page 1

Pages:
ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times

Topic started on 12-2-2013 @ 05:12 PM by RooskiZombi

Quick back story:
2009; Does anyone remember hearing about an incident in BC about a Filipino man who was sleeping on a couch and was then set on fire and beaten violently by two individuals?
Two individuals who turned out to be from "Blood and Honor" an international hate group/neo nazis - Google images shows some nice, wholesome pictures of these turds

Well seeing as the inter-webs is fairly anonymous, I will boldly state that I was the only material witness to this event, and have been dodging a subpoena for about 5 months with harassing phone calls/knocks from the police/visits to my work they still were unable to hand me this subpoena. Actually I found it wedged into my door with the court date and a notice that if I do not show up to witness, a warrant may be issued for my arrest...?

Here's what i'm baffled by:
No person addressed me/had me sign this subpoena
My last name has been misspelled on the photocopied legal document by 2 letters
Can I actually be arrested for not showing up? I have no criminal record/history...

Now, on a side note. After much time thinking this over, I have made an firm decision to not testify as a witness because a) they know my face/name b) I will forever have to look over my shoulder, and as much as I want these people to be put away, I do not believe the justice system prevails and I do not believe it can protect me.

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 05:20 PM by ccseagull

They will try 3 times to serve you. After that you will be arrested. Go to the police and state you are afraid for your life and that you want to testify by video so that you remain anonymous (to the best degree at this point). Wonder if you can request some sort of witness protection? Not sure.
Good luck. I wish you all the best. In the meantime I will pray for your protection. Pray to God and request that he place an angel of protection over you. Some will laugh/mock me but God will hear you.

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 05:31 PM by RooskiZombi

reply to post by ccseagull

Is this in Canada? I thought you had to be adressed by name or sign this document?
Thank you, as i'm reading some articles online about the incident it's quite scary to think about testifying. It is not ILLEGAL in Canada to be apart of a white supremacist group (can you believe that?) and if we have any witness protection, its a joke. Why should I have to hide anyways?

I've got jew blood and a knack for weaponry. Vengeance seems too sweet

Article here

edit on 12-2-2013 by RooskiZombi because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 05:51 PM by headorheart

I'm from the US but I know in Canada, the witness usually receives the subpoena personally, but it can also be left at the witness's home with anyone appearing to be at least sixteen years old. If the witness does not attend at court , the court may issue a warrant for his or her arrest. If a witness shows up in court but refuses to testify, the judge may order that the witness be jailed for contempt of court.

This is the most specific I've found online.
698. (1) Where a person is likely to give material evidence in a proceeding to which this Act applies, a subpoena may be issued in accordance with this Part requiring that person to attend to give evidence.

Warrant in Form 17

(2) Where it is made to appear that a person who is likely to give material evidence

(a) will not attend in response to a subpoena if a subpoena is issued, or

(b) is evading service of a subpoena,

a court, justice or provincial court judge having power to issue a subpoena to require the attendance of that person to give evidence may issue a warrant in Form 17 to cause that person to be arrested and to be brought to give evidence.
yourlaws.ca...

It seems as if you'd be under infraction of 2b.

My best advice is go to the police or court and requestion special testifying circumstances.

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 05:57 PM by RooskiZombi

reply to post by headorheart

Even if the name is spelled incorrectly on this document?
I thought the details were essential in court, and void if the document is not addressed to me accurately?

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 06:18 PM by MagicWand67

I'm not a lawyer and I am from the USA. Canadian law might be a little bit different.

From my experience and knowledge of the legal system here in the USA. All subpoenas have the warning or threat of prosecution for non compliance. They will try to deliver the documents to you in many different ways. Usually by mail at first. Sometimes by telephone. Neither of those methods are a valid form of "serving the subpoena".

To be legally served the papers must be hand delivered in person by an agent of the court. Even then it is very rare for someone to actually be prosecuted for not showing up to court as a witness. The main reason is that it would deter people from coming forward with info about crimes if they were forced to testify and punished if they didn't.

To be punished for failure to comply with a court subpoena you would have to have done something extra during the process. Like makes special agreements and promise to testify and have it all in writing. The paper they shove under your door is not legal binding.

The police and the lawyers will threaten people with all kinds of lies. You might want to just call the court and tell them you're not going to testify and the reason why. They might still try to threaten you. But just ignore it and calmly tell them..."Do what you have to do. I am not going to testify". At least that way they will know what to expect.

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 06:29 PM by freakshowfatty

reply to post by RooskiZombi

My wife dodged a server for months because the last name was spelled wrong and when confronted about it eventually in court the judge acknowledged since legally that is not her name she had no legal requirement to take it

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 07:50 PM by yamammasamonkey

reply to post by RooskiZombi

All crime stems from hate, therefore I reject the premise of your title. If you witnessed a crime, then you should search your conscious for an answer to your question. You and God alone know the truth of what you know and you alone will have to deal with your actions and the reason you took them. Good luck with that.

edit on 12-2-2013 by yamammasamonkey because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 06:25 AM by xquietonex

Criminal procedure is different from civil here (I'm in Alberta).

Leaving a summons at your known address is 'good service' by the Crown in criminal proceedings. If you fail to appear they WILL issue a warrant.

Misspelling your name is no out, sorry. The intent of the document is clear...could you argue at your trial for Failure to Appear that as your name was misspelled, you didn't think they meant you?

No legal advice given here. If you'd like some free legal advice, there are free hotlines in BC that will let you talk to a volunteer lawyer, no charge. Or you can go to the courthouse and ask to speak to Duty Counsel. Or if you're afraid to testify, perhaps calling the Crown Prosecutor assigned to the case might allay your fears.

I would highly recommend NOT ignoring that summons though...

Good luck, and feel free to PM me if I can help :/

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 06:30 AM by xquietonex

Originally posted by yamammasamonkey
reply to post by RooskiZombi

All crime stems from hate, therefore I reject the premise of your title. If you witnessed a crime, then you should search your conscious for an answer to your question. You and God alone know the truth of what you know and you alone will have to deal with your actions and the reason you took them. Good luck with that.
edit on 12-2-2013 by yamammasamonkey because: (no reason given)

Wow, insensitive much? OP witnessed a brutal crime and seems (at a minimum) conflicted about getting involved. You don't know the facts, nor do I. Grow some compassion.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 09:12 AM by yamammasamonkey

reply to post by xquietonex

You repeated what I said, then you told me to have some compassion. Quiet!

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 10:06 AM by RooskiZombi

Thanks for the advise.
I am seeking help from a lawyer this week, as basically this puts a hit on my head with a international crime group so I am pretty sure I came down with some sort of amnesia during that time. I know nothing.

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 11:56 AM by xquietonex

Originally posted by RooskiZombi
Thanks for the advise.
I am seeking help from a lawyer this week, as basically this puts a hit on my head with a international crime group so I am pretty sure I came down with some sort of amnesia during that time. I know nothing.

Hmm, yeah, quite the conundrum you've got there...
Hope it all works out for ya!

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 01:09 PM by zedVSzardoz

reply to post by RooskiZombi

I was a witness today for a young man that was attacked and defended himself. I wasnt forced to go. It really was a pain in the ass and may have cost me money since I had to leave my business in less qualified hands.

You know WHY I went? because it was the right thing to do. This young man was going to be sued for doing nothing wrong.

If It was MY son, brother, or anyone I would want an honest person to step forward, consequences be damned if he existed.

I initially broke up the fight as soon as it erupted. The hot head that started it all broke free of me and went after the kid being sued for a second time without the element of surprise and that time got his ass handed to him. Two quick punches and his teeth and face were a broken mess.

The kid being sued didnt go after him again and rub it in, or hurt him more than was necessary. He didnt look for it. If I didnt go today he would have been punished for doing what is right. I can not let that happen. If not I dont deserve the society I live in if I dont sacrifice for the order and stability it has. Not on my watch. We must all do what is our portion of good to do. If not, we get our world as it is now. A Shameless ruin of men.

I understand the situation is different in your case, BUT, what is right is right. You would want someone to testify if it was you, or a child of yours, sibling, whatever. You would want HONESTY, INTEGRITY, and COURAGE to prevail in your fellow human. You would ask those things of your fellow citizens.

If anything bad happens, cross that bridge when you get to it. Dont live in fear of it. That is no reason to not do what is correct. When would a immoral man ever NOT defy the good that opposes him? That is the price we pay for our integrity. It is the cost of a moral and just world. Nothing is free.

Are your enemies greater than you? Are these people whom you would testify against in fact not your enemies? They who seek to ruin all those things you hold dear.....would you not defy them, even selfishly so? For the right world to emerge from this mess, some people will have to rise to the occasion and do more than is expected of them, NOT less.

I urge you to honor the man who was hurt, as a person, as a fellow human being. Do what is right. Help justice prevail. Do not resign yourself to the systems failures without TRYING to make it work.

Do not live a day in fear. Fear is the mind killer.

Do what is right. Be true to your heart. Stand for what is right, the cost then made irrelevant in light of the prize of a mighty soul unblemished.

EDIT:
Fearless and loving spirits roaming wild filling the world with the light of their just hearts....THAT is a dream worth fighting for.

edit on 13-2-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 13-2-2013 @ 02:01 PM by RooskiZombi

reply to post by zedVSzardoz

I appreciate your opinion, but my post clearly states that I was looking for legal advice, not moral.
It also states that it is a firm decision, and although your input is appreciated, I really don't find it fitting to my situation. Thanks though.

and xquietonex, thank you for the advice. I guess my best bet is to just take the subpoena instead of dodging this and then make a statement. They can't force me to say something against my will, so thats good, but I think they assume they can intimidate me and harass me until I do so.

edit on 13-2-2013 by RooskiZombi because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 14-2-2013 @ 01:53 PM by xquietonex

Originally posted by RooskiZombi
reply to post by zedVSzardoz

and xquietonex, thank you for the advice. I guess my best bet is to just take the subpoena instead of dodging this and then make a statement. They can't force me to say something against my will, so thats good, but I think they assume they can intimidate me and harass me until I do so.
edit on 13-2-2013 by RooskiZombi because: (no reason given)

Happy I could be of service. A few more comments for ya just so you know what happens:

I don't know your situation and it is none of my business, but I would urge you if you feel you are in personal danger now or will be after you testify, to speak to the Prosecutor in the case as soon as possible and tell him you are fearful. All you would have to do to see him is go to the courthouse and find your way to the Crown Office and someone would assist you.

If you have a subpoena, it means that they are looking for you to testify in court, not come down to the station and talk to the cops. Usually this happens when you've been questioned by the cops already, or they have cause to believe that you are a material witness.

Before court, you will be met by the Crown Prosecutor who will be looking to assess your value to his case as a witness. He will likely run through any statement you have given in writing or in passing to the police, and possibly go into details that interest him.

Unless you have made arrangements to protect your identity (see the Prosecutor for this) you will be called into open court in full view of the accused parties. You will be sworn in and the rest goes much like you would see on TV. If you lie under oath, you could be criminally charged.

IF you decide to dodge court, you will be charged with Failure to Appear and they will issue a warrant for your arrest. Expect the cops to come looking for you anywhere you are known to hang out, or any address that is on a government file. Presuming you avoid all that, the next time you get pulled over or asked for ID by a peace officer, you will be taken into custody.

I should say that I am NOT a lawyer and am not giving you legal advice

But forewarned is forearmed, and I get the feeling you have some tough decisions ahead. I wish you well

edit on 14/2/2013 by xquietonex because: (no reason given)

Pages: ^^TOP^^