65,376,373 guns sold during Obama's term and still counting!

Originally posted by thunder57
reply to post by xedocodex

 

You are avoiding my question. it is simply yes or no

edit on 12-2-2013 by thunder57 because: (no reason given)

Which question?

Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by sulaw

 

So your up for a re-visitation of the 2nd Amendment? Something most of our fore father fought and died for? You will permanently be ignored for this ignorant statement. I would ask if your even a American Citizen after the responses I've read from you. I would love to extend my right to freedom of speech further but at this time I will leave with Civility.

Yes, I'm up for the re-visitation of anything and everything in the Constitution. It's ignorant to think that laws and persepectives should never change while society evolves and new technology is developed.

Yes, I am an American citizen...and I am very active in organizing to get my views moved into legislation...I bet you don't like that too much either.

I love that you have a problem with an American citizen expressing their opinion.

And I hate to burst your bubble, but the founding fathers didn't fight and die for your rights...they did it for their own profit. The revolution was a business dispute between the rich business men of the colonies and England. But they need to convince colonist to go die for them somehow...so "freedom" seemed like a good tool to use.

/sigh lmao ok buddy. Have fun with that. did I mention Ignore?

reply to post by xedocodex


Dude come on. Do a little research.

reply to post by xedocodex

Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by sulaw

 

Yes, I'm up for the re-visitation of anything and everything in the Constitution.

I agree. And let's take a look at the second... It says we have the right to "KEEP and BEAR" arms... It doesn't even say we have the right to OWN them... Maybe we should investigate this further.

Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by Helious

 

The fact of the matter is that gun laws don't keep the guns out of the hands of criminals. Any further law only serves to prohibit and infringe on law abiding citizens. Now please tell me, what about that simple and truthful statement do you not understand exactly?

Reducing the amount of overall guns in circulation will reduce the amount of guns criminals can get their hands on. And many times, people aren't criminals when they buy the gun...but when they snap and turn into a criminal...look...they have a gun already.

Most guns that are in criminals hands were once purchased legally...unless they have robbed a gun manufacure or a gun store...the gun was once bought legally.

Oh I see!!! Now please tell me since most crimes are committed with handguns and not "assault style" weapons how banning those is going to reduce crime from not having as many in circulation? Your not saying they are going to try and confiscate hand guns too are you?

What kind of numbers do you have that support the notion that most guns that are used by criminals have been purchased legally? Further more, if people are buying guns legally and "snapping" as you put it, how will bans on assault weapons, universal registration and 10 clip magazine legislation stop these people from snapping?

Some guns criminals have were purchased legally though, like all of the ones used by the Mexican drug cartel too kill innocent people and cops, they were purchased by the US government and Id say lets get some bans going for them but they have already stated that they would be exempt from any new gun control legislation.

Must be nice.

Well whoever taught you left out alot of information about the revolution. and I urgently sugest you hit the books and reread the information again to get you facts straight before you go with what you just said again. Only what you said was a partial truth. The whole big picture you left out completely, especiall about King George wanting to disarm the people here.

reply to post by neo96

The us constitution is not up for interpretation it is open to the amendment process.

Sure it is...that is what we have the SCOTUS for.

Your statment by itself is just illogical...every written word is up for interpretation...to say the Constitution is some sort of magical document that needs no interpetation is just being ignorant.

reply to post by neo96

Never agreed to live any any rules except the constitution perhaps if people don't like me owning a gun they should leave.

Thanks think I will stay considering my family has been in this country for over 200 years.

Here is the thing...if I truly don't like you owning a gun...I'm not going to leave...I'm going to work within the system to get that gun out of your hands.

That is the American way...that is the "freedom" the Constitution has given us...to change the laws and rules we live by.

I think I will be staying too...but I will also be working to change the country to evolve with the world and not be stuck in our past....you may not like that.

Every word was carefully placed for a reason, and that was to insure our lasting freedom.

Originally posted by xedocodex


Here is the thing...if I truly don't like you owning a gun...I'm not going to leave...I'm going to work within the system to get that gun out of your hands.

Bingo.

7 pages but the truth will out!

That's probably the most honest thing you've ever written.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by xedocodex

 

Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by sulaw

 

Yes, I'm up for the re-visitation of anything and everything in the Constitution.

I agree. And let's take a look at the second... It says we have the right to "KEEP and BEAR" arms... It doesn't even say we have the right to OWN them... Maybe we should investigate this further.

Agreed...it also says something about the "militia".

So they can KEEP and BEAR arms that are owned by their State while serving in thier state militia....the National Guard.

I actually do support private ownership of guns...but the 2nd can be interpreted many many ways.

reply to post by xedocodex


Alright then

Amendment II A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

That doesn't mean what it says that means they can limit that right whenever they want

Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That doesn't mean what it says that means they can limit that right whenever they want.

Really want to talk about ignorant?

Is there a federal background check to use free speech in this country?

reply to post by xedocodex

Here is the thing...if I truly don't like you owning a gun...I'm not going to leave...I'm going to work within the system to get that gun out of your hands.

Here is the thing you do not have the right

That is the American way...that is the "freedom" the Constitution has given us...to change the laws and rules we live by.

Talk about taking things from me in one breath in the next one talking about freedom?

Seriously?

Hiding behind government is not the American way.

I think I will be staying too...but I will also be working to change the country to evolve with the world and not be stuck in our past....you may not like that.

Telling someone to leave is the antithesis of freedom and the American way.

Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by neo96

 

Never agreed to live any any rules except the constitution perhaps if people don't like me owning a gun they should leave.

Thanks think I will stay considering my family has been in this country for over 200 years.

Here is the thing...if I truly don't like you owning a gun...I'm not going to leave...I'm going to work within the system to get that gun out of your hands.

That is the American way...that is the "freedom" the Constitution has given us...to change the laws and rules we live by.

I think I will be staying too...but I will also be working to change the country to evolve with the world and not be stuck in our past....you may not like that.

I've got a shocking news flash for you my friend. The only reason we have freedom is because we have the second amendment. The only reason we have this country and your an American is because people who believed in the right the second amendment affords us bled and died for it.

They sure in hell didn't do it without the forethought of people like you who would seek to erode freedom and liberty and leave the people defenseless to the protection of their family and unable to oppose tyranny. Ironic that you make the argument against the amendment when you are exactly why it's there in the first place.

Originally posted by neo96
Is there a federal background check to use free speech in this country?

When was the last time free speech went and shot up a classroom full of kids? Words don't kill, as much as they may hurt.

Originally posted by LeatherNLace

Originally posted by neo96
Is there a federal background check to use free speech in this country?

When was the last time free speech went and shot up a classroom full of kids? Words don't kill, as much as they may hurt.

The reason we have the first amendment is because of the second amendment

JUST so you know

reply to post by Helious

Oh I see!!! Now please tell me since most crimes are committed with handguns and not "assault style" weapons how banning those is going to reduce crime from not having as many in circulation? Your not saying they are going to try and confiscate hand guns too are you?

I'm not suggesting to ban or confiscate any guns. But more in depth background checks, licensing of gun owners that need to be re-certified each year with psych evals, registration of guns and ammo sales and transfers, required reporting of lost or stolen guns/ammo, tax on guns/ammo to help with the cost of gun crime due to our gun culture...there are many many things we can do without banning anything. But let me guess...all of that is too restrictive to you, even though it doesn't stop you from owning

What kind of numbers do you have that support the notion that most guns that are used by criminals have been purchased legally?

If they weren't purchased legally at one point...how did they get into circulation? Yes, they can be stolen from gun stores or some warehouse somehwere...but since we don't hear about huge gun heists...I dont' think that is the case. It's true, I don't have numbers for that, so I will state that this is only my opinion, not fact.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Why does someone have to be "anti-gun" or "pro-gun"? There are many positions on the second amendment without being in an extreme.

The gun manufacturers and the NRA LOVE the air of suspicion that Obama is trying to take their guns away.

I have to say that as someone I've disagreed with pretty strongly at times in the past? I'm happy to find myself in full agreement with your first point here. Why DOES this debate have to be from the extremes? The purchasing numbers the thread is based on show, if nothing else, the rush to buy comes across societal and demographic lines. I have another thread from January that detail the actual data from the FBI as well as a breakdown by state on just 2012 sales which definitely show this isn't unique of any one area or group of people.

So you would think we could, as a nation, discuss this without the need to be "100% ALL or NOTHING" to either side of it. In reality, both sides have their points and, to varying degrees, valid ones too.

The second point you make? I'm not sure if I disagree or you simply didn't elaborate. The NRA and gun protection side has gone to some extremes here and no one can argue that in the national debate. I'd note though, the extremes of one side feed into the other and so it's gone. The White House talks extreme regulation so, in turn, the NRA talk extreme response, which brings even MORE talk from Biden and Obama, among others and so on.

The ultimate bad game of tit for tat, as we all watch it spiral down, eh? (Or some watch their fortunes made over months by what normally takes years...depends on which side of the sales counter someone is on, right?

Originally posted by DrNotforhire

Originally posted by LeatherNLace

Originally posted by neo96
Is there a federal background check to use free speech in this country?

When was the last time free speech went and shot up a classroom full of kids? Words don't kill, as much as they may hurt.

The reason we have the first amendment is because of the second amendment

JUST so you know

Nice....where'd you get that one; a fortune cookie?

Originally posted by LeatherNLace

Originally posted by neo96
Is there a federal background check to use free speech in this country?

When was the last time free speech went and shot up a classroom full of kids? Words don't kill, as much as they may hurt.

Right words don't kill this agian?

They sure do invade Iraq,afghansitan, libya,yemen,pakistan, somailia, GM is alive and Bin Laden is dead.

Push that button launching a nuke, or a hellfire from a predator drone.

Yeah words kill those words put in ink on paper for all that legislation disarming the American public that has killed thousands..

Those words put on paper signed in ink for Roe v Wade has killed millions.