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The One People's Public Trust & Sovereign Citizens Movement Scams Broken Down.

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posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Are you twitching? Why do you not address the REAL proof that the OPPT site flutters on the internet like a flag in the wind totally destroying any proof to the contrary?





posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by ajay59
 


Keep holding onto that delusional conclusion. Between that and your abhorrent behavior, without realizing it, you are aiding and abetting MY side of the argument far more than the other.



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by Eyesa2diffcolors
Explain this away, please




let us see, he was kept in jail for a month, pleaded guilty and received a suspended 18 month sentence....

www.guelphmercury.com...
www.guelphmercury.com...



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by ajay59
 


Keep holding onto that delusional conclusion. Between that and your abhorrent behavior, without realizing it, you are aiding and abetting MY side of the argument far more than the other.



What ,exactly, is so abhorrent about my behavior? If I in fact am aiding YOUR side, then are you saying that the OPPT is not a scam? Answer this question please. The fact that the documentation IS posted on the internet should be more than enough evidence for the FBI to act, if in fact, it is a scam, yes or no? Very simple question if you do not fear honestly answering it!



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by ajay59
 


I have answered, twice that I can recall off hand. You do realize that criminal investigations aren't the same as, say, a cop arresting you for drunk in public, or fighting, or any other such thing. An investigation takes time as a case is built and the prosecutor is consulted until satisfied that the evidence is complete and thorough.

Our legal system, thankfully, still isn't to the point where people are arbitrarily arrested before due process is observed.

Surely this concept cannot be that difficult for you to understand.



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 10:39 PM
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I think that OPPT is a scam but with that said, there are instances where a constitution can trump UCC. This is an example from the UK but it's relevant and while I don't believe in the whole Freeman thing, there is something to be said for paying attention to details and on occasion using those details to make your case.

You can clearly see that a constitution and common sense trump UCC style law and deception.


If you think banks are always right, have nothing to hide or even have officers that know the law..... Think again.


You see, most of the people who enforce things for the banks through court orders, don't even understand the law they are enforcing. It's kind of odd.
edit on 23-2-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 10:48 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


The mere fact that it is up there, documents and all, more evidence than any prosecutor could ever hope for, should be sufficient to take them into custody now if it is in fact a scam! It is far more likely that TPTB are scrambling like cockroaches to either find a way to take it down unlawfully, or to a have ample time to escape.



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 10:56 PM
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It's late, and I cannot be bothered to sift through nearly 100 pages to find out if we are still debating the veracity of said information and legal 'concepts' in action - I hold the pretense people are vehemently defending their belief structures, and appointed 'opinions'.


Irene Gravenhorst is a wonderful example of how patience and a sharp wit can defeat even the most adamant of foes.







www.youtube.com...

Mary Croft and her 'How I Clobbered Every Bureaucratic and Cash Confiscatory Agency known to Mankind.. A Spiritual Economics Book' is a great place to start for those who have the interest after watching these videos.

Keep up the good work!
edit on 23-2-2013 by purplemonkeydishwasher because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by ajay59
 


Maybe it's hard for you to actually understand this, but the pages that the OPPT has up on their site, the filings, would not , again would not be handled by the Federal Government, any UCC filings would be handled by the state in which they were filed, that's the rules (UCC Revised 9)

So in this case, the burden to act would be upon Washington State to investigate, and if need be prosecute. Not the Federal Government, but that's been explained so may times and you still don't seem to grasp that. Not everything is handled on a Federal Level, esp with the UCC as it varies slightly from State to State and in the end is in the hands of the individual states to decide how to proceed.

I hope that makes it easier for you to understand.. I forget which page the Washington State regs on UCC filings is on offhand it's late, I'm only up to get something, and decided to check to see if I got a response to a U2U i sent someone and saw you still harping on why hasn't the FBI done anything.. Also just an FYI it would be the Commerce Department that would handle any investigation on Commercial Filings..and then only if Washington State asked them to, Not justice. Justice would only get involved on the court level if Commerce decided to file charges.



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by ajay59
reply to post by MystikMushroom
 


Can you back up the blatant lie that has been tagged to at least two threads known to me that the OPPT is a scam? The only proof needed on the legitimacy of the OPPT is the simple fact that the documentation is posted on the web and that alone would bring in some kind of action by the FBI under their internet crime laws! That is THE proof of legitimacy. When we see this come down and the principles imprisoned, that would be proof that it is a scam. Unless you can come up with better proof than this high profile proof that can be seen and verified by all!

edit on 23-2-2013 by ajay59 because: to correct


I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. Either way, you replied and did not answer or address my questions.

If you live in Montana, you might not want to file UCCs if your a "Sovereign Citizen"



30-9A-420. Removal of improper or fraudulent liens -- notice to secured party and debtor. (1) If a filing officer receives
a complaint or has reason to believe that a lien submitted or filed with the filing officer's office is improper or fraudulent,
the filing officer may reject the submission or remove the filing from existing files after giving notice and an opportunity to
respond to the secured party and the debtor.
(2) A person adversely affected by a lien that is determined to be improper or fraudulent by the filing officer may
recover treble damages from the person responsible for submitting the lien.
27-1-1505. Liens. (1) As used in this section, the following definitions apply:
(a) "Lien" means an encumbrance on property as security for the payment of a debt.
(b) "Nonconsensual common-law lien" means a lien that:
(i) is not provided for by a specific state or federal statute;
(ii) does not depend upon the consent of the owner of the property affected for its existence;
(iii) is not an equitable or constructive lien imposed by a court; and
(iv) is not of a type commonly used in legitimate commercial transactions.
(c) "Person" means an individual, group of individuals, or any organization of individuals.
(2) A person may not file a nonconsensual common-law lien upon the real or personal property of an individual or
organization.
(3) (a) If a nonconsensual common-law lien is filed against the real or personal property of an individual or
organization, the individual or organization may petition the district court in the county in which the affected property is
located to remove the nonconsensual common-law lien. If the district court determines that the lien in question is a
nonconsensual common-law lien, the district court shall enter an order directing the appropriate public official to remove
the nonconsensual common-law lien.
(b) The legislature may provide other methods of removing nonconsensual common-law liens.
(4) The person filing the nonconsensual common-law lien is liable for the costs of removing the nonconsensual
common-law lien, including reasonable attorney fees, court costs, and actual damages sustained by the aggrieved
individual or organization as a result of the nonconsensual common-law lien.

Link

It appears that Oregon also isn't to friendly to Sovereign Citizens:




79.0516(2)(h) " In the case of a record presented for filing at the filing office described in ORS 79.0501 (1)(b), the record
on its face reveals, based on factors such as whether the debtor and the secured party are the same person or whether
the collateral described is within the scope of this chapter, that the record is being filed for a purpose other than a
transaction that is within the scope of this chapter."
79.0520(5)

(5)(a) If the filing office described in ORS 79.0501 (1)(b) refuses to accept a record for filing
under ORS 79.0516 (2)(h), the secured party may contest the refusal by filing with the Secretary of State, within 20 days
after the date of the communication regarding the refusal, a written request for a hearing before the Secretary of State.
The request need not be in any particular form, but the secured party shall specify the grounds upon which the secured
party considers the refusal unlawful and shall attach the record to the request.
(b) The Secretary of State may not grant a hearing unless a secured party files a request for a hearing within the
period specified in paragraph (a) of this subsection. If a secured party files a timely request for a hearing, the Secretary
of State shall hold a hearing in accordance with the applicable provisions of ORS chapter 183.
(c) The Secretary of State may delegate to a hearing officer appointed by the Secretary of State all or part of the
authority to conduct hearings under this subsection.
(d) If the Secretary of State or the hearing officer determines that the record should not have been refused, the filing
office shall index the record as of the date the record was originally presented for filing.
(e) Final orders issued in a proceeding under this subsection are subject to review by the Court of Appeals as
provided in ORS 183.480 and 183.482.


Did you notice the part that said: "debtor and the secured party are the same person" -- this is a classic filing technique used by "Sovereign Citizens".

In some places, filing these types of paperwork are class C state felonies. If you enjoy guns, I'm just saying...
edit on 23-2-2013 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 11:23 PM
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And here you guys go, here's what Flordia says about this whole thing (according to statutory law)



Section 817.155, Florida Statutes, states the following for matters within the jurisdiction of the Florida Department of
State:
817.155 Matters within jurisdiction of Department of State; false, fictitious, or fraudulent acts, statements, and
representations prohibited; penalty; statute of limitations.—A person may not, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the
Department of State, knowingly and willfully falsify or conceal a material fact, make any false, fictitious, or fraudulent
statement or representation, or make or use any false document, knowing the same to contain any false, fictitious, or
fraudulent statement or entry. A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as
provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. The statute of limitations for prosecution of an act committed in
violation of this section is 5 years from the date the act was committed.


Yep -- you can be charged with a felony if you pursue this stuff, and that's at the state level. The FBI is also keen to this scam as well.



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


You are absolutely correct. Despite it being called the "Uniform Commercial Code", it is entirely up to the individual states which portions they adopt and or amend via their legislative processes.

States around the country are enacting/have legislation to prevent these kinds of filings because it was never the intended purpose of the UCC to be used in such a way. It simply ties up the legal system, and costs innocent taxpayers like myself money.

It's actually quite stunning how hard-headed these people are. Just like how they will tie up the legal system, they are tying up this discussion thread.

ETA: Alex Jones himself won't even file one of these. I just remembered that.

edit on 23-2-2013 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 12:01 AM
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Hey, just wanted to say, are all you anti OPPT people going to apologize when the truth comes out?

Just wanted to know if you'll eat crow or just bury this whole thing.

I think one measure of NON-scammage will be the invocation of the first CVAC's. That should be the ultimate answer.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by fourthmeal
Hey, just wanted to say, are all you anti OPPT people going to apologize when the truth comes out?


when I get my $5billion in gold then I will apologise, until then it is just a SCAM....


Just wanted to know if you'll eat crow or just bury this whole thing.


How about you? Or will you just keep claiming it will all happen Real Soon Now....



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by fourthmeal
 


Eat crow? Can it be made into fajitas first?

Sure I'll eat crow.

The fact is, the UCC was not conceived, nor intended to be used in the way Freemen/Sovereign Citizens are attempting to use it.

To dumb it down: The UCC (revised article 9) primarily pertains to the chain of ownership on personal property transactions. If you get financing through a bank or credit union for a 4-wheeler, they'll file a UCC.

It's actually a really great resource for private parties. If I wanted to buy your 4-wheeler, I could search the public record to find out if you've paid it off or not. I obviously wouldn't want to buy a 4-wheeler that a bank still has a security interest in!

That's the main purpose of the UCC, and is why these people are being called out through various established and newly enacted state statutes.

I'm tired -- I feel like I keep repeating myself in this thread. Now I have a glimpse into what those judges have to deal with.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 12:27 AM
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Also, I just wanted to point out the obvious error of lumping OPPT in with the "Sovereign Citizen" thing.

OPPT does not recommend you file UCC paperwork. You can simply reference the already valid and unrebutted UCC docs and use the Courtesy Notice, which is not made of legalese nor any form of legal document, and does not do anything more than be kind to those you are noticing that the landscape has indeed changed.

I'd also like to remind folks that the Trustees take in no money for this, do not accept donations, and do not take from the Trust any funds. This, if a scam, would be a horrible scam for making money by the Trustees.

I'd also like to remind people that, unlike known scammers that tend to hide or carefully choose their appearances, Heather has been on numerous audio discussions with folks all around the world via her Skype connection from Morocco, and has never declined to answer something she had an answer to, nor declined to tell people of the history of events as she knows them, nor been caught in a lie or an error in time lines, nor has anything that is publicly available via googling her name disagreed with anything she's said on air, on record. In other words, though her claims may be huge, the stuff that can be verified does check out.

I'd also like to remind people that the Paradigm Report, readily available for all to read, has incredible information about the corruption of the banking and finance sector, and again all the timelines match up exactly.

I'd also like to remind people that this Trust does not appear to have an ulterior motive, and the purpose is to EQUALIZE all in a debt-free, new paradigm society without chips ID'ing you, or computers knowing everything about you. Even if you don't believe OPPT is going to be successful, one must consider that at least a group of people is trying.

A note, Heather has said repeatedly over all the audio conferences that the Trust is just one tiny facet of a huge diamond (her words), of things going on and people involved. Some we can see (like the Trust), some we cannot yet. So, one must assume that IF this is correct, there would then be a lot more power behind what is going on than just the UCC filings, if you get my drift. That indeed, this is just one little aspect of a larger movement that is dedicated on freeing humanity. And I FEEL that. That's what drew me to this whole thing, and why I've put 40+ hours of audio listening into this, and many weeks worth of studying.

I was very on-the-fence upon the release of this info. I was tracking down all the banker resignations at the time, back right after Dec 21'st 2012. I had been going through extreme energetic changes within my own Self, stuff that I didn't believe was even possible was happening to me, and continues to. I feel energies and am sensitive in ways I never was before. In other words I've changed, evolved, and continue to do so!

This OPPT stuff is a spiritual thing. That's undeniable. Either you accept we are all One and experiencing this all in different ways, or you deny that truth. Either way, you are still here with all of us, all of the One, and the experience of Duality is almost over. This is truth I know, no matter how you slice it. When I wake up, and when I sleep, I get this message over and over again, and I get the message to "Be of Service" regularly and with guidance on how, as well. Are my posts on this thread and others here on ATS of Service? We will find out.

The OPPT stuff hit me hard because I could see this was the way we were going to rid ourselves of the "Ankle Biters", but when I saw it I didn't know what to think about the methods chosen. I had thought it would come from a different source. I KNEW the finance side of things had to be the first change to happen, because the cabal with their black off-ledger accounts were fueling blackmail, bribery, and other nefarious actions to get their way, constantly. But that first radio show was awkward. Everyone was asking, how do I get my 10 Billion bucks? You could tell, the conversation still had much Ego involved, though the panel was spiritually advanced and open to new things. The second call, the spiritual aspects came out a bit more. People were still wondering about the gold, but now it was more of an understanding that it was all about equality. Third call, the evolution continued. Into the 4th and 5th call, the panel and callers pretty much had it leveled out, and now we were all talking about the future and how this would all come together. That was a beautiful thing.


Here's one thing to consider about all this. The OPPT future of CVACs providing governance is one of pure transparency, honesty, and ability to just BE and DO, without restrictions. Who would oppose that?! Nevermind the difficulties...who would?


Vkey, your repeated mention of Article 9 making the OPPT filings illegal or some other bad thing... too little, too late.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by hellobruce
 


The value to foreclose was 10B for those that weren't part of the cabal, but that's not money you get directly.

I'm sorry, did someone of the OPPT tell you that you were getting 10B, or was that your own interpretation of the foreclosure proceedings?



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 12:31 AM
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Originally posted by fourthmeal
Hey, just wanted to say, are all you anti OPPT people going to apologize when the truth comes out?

Just wanted to know if you'll eat crow or just bury this whole thing.

I think one measure of NON-scammage will be the invocation of the first CVAC's. That should be the ultimate answer.


Every single time that I have been wrong on ATS, and found out about it, I have made it a point to return to the thread I was wrong about and post a public apology. This is something that quite a few members here have seen and, I assume, will acknowledge.

Having said that, are YOU as noble as you'd expect me to be? Will you return here and admit it if your own forays into this go awry - or when Heather Tucci faces some sort of repercussions from this?



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 12:44 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


For the record, I publicly apologized when I incorrectly made assumptions, based on partial info during the whole beginning of this thing, back on the very first OPPT thread. Partial info makes people look like jackasses.

I have zero issue apologizing when due.

I think people need to look at CVACs as being the "proof" that this is real and has legs, not just the "courts", and "court decisions". All of that stuff, IF you believe the old system is dead (and I do), is long-term irrelevant.


Side note of partial interest to me, I made a payment to the IRS quite some time ago, and the check has yet to clear. Now, it could clear Monday morning or so, so I am not saying that this is proof or anything, but I find it odd that all previous checks cleared in record time and this last one simply has been weeks. It was the last one I intended to pay anyway, given the new info that has come out since then (Courtesy Notices, among other things), and so that's going to be interesting to see if the money ever gets pulled out.

You see, I DO believe in this stuff, but I also believe that the system still has teeth. I'm not afraid of those teeth, but I see no reason in getting cut up when a bit of caution could prevent that. I believe I've made that clear in posts prior. But notices are going out, and that which I didn't contract to pay will be asserted. Note: it is my belief that things I DID contract to pay for should be paid. I believe in personal responsibility especially to other human beings, so the kind landlord I have will definitely be getting paid, as will my electricity provider, etc.

At no point do I believe in the A4V thing. And it is important to distinguish OPPT from those concepts. Sure, people may lump them together, but at no point has a Trustee of OPPT suggested they are valid ways to handle business. Neither have they suggested anything like the Sovereign Citizen movement suggests, other than to of course assert who you "BE" and ask those that would like to contract with you to do the same.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by fourthmeal

I'd also like to remind folks that the Trustees take in no money for this, do not accept donations, and do not take from the Trust any funds.


Except for all the gold that they have had teleported out....






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