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The One People's Public Trust & Sovereign Citizens Movement Scams Broken Down.

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posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by vkey08
 


the one she owns with Charles Miller, convicted, and admitted, fraudster?


That would be the one.....




posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by flyswatter

Originally posted by fourthmeal
reply to post by OneisOne
 


Great question. Yes, it appears the original trust was gifted to her, Caleb, and Randal. No money has changed hands as I understand it, and there is no money that is allocated to running this. In a statement made last night on air, Heather answered someone's question about this very thing. She said that no money is accepted for this, no donation allowed, and they do all their filings, investigations, and operations completely out of their own pocket.

There are many, many trusts out there, some on record and some not. I'm still learning and waiting for more data on the original 1776 Trust, which is important for me to understand all of this.


So, any rebuttal?

If you want people to take any of this seriously, one of the first things that you are going to have to do is show us that this theory is successful in court. You need to show us a court case or judicial decision that supports your claims that the OPPT (or similar movements) have been successful in achieving their goal. It would be foolish for anyone just to take it at face value and say "Ok, cool, it works!" without seeing evidence of that.

Nevermind all the "scam" stuff, nevermind the accusations going back and forth. If you are unable to show us that any evidence that this has succeeded in court, how can you expect us to be accepting of this whole idea?


Flyswatter: He's given a reason he can't find ONE successful decision, because the foreclosed upon system is hanging on for dear life..



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:28 PM
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FYI, for those that are still perplexed by fourthmeal's Delphi comment,


In the standard version, the experts answer questionnaires in two or more rounds. After each round, a facilitator provides an anonymous summary of the experts’ forecasts from the previous round as well as the reasons they provided for their judgments. Thus, experts are encouraged to revise their earlier answers in light of the replies of other members of their panel. It is believed that during this process the range of the answers will decrease and the group will converge towards the "correct" answer. Finally, the process is stopped after a pre-defined stop criterion (e.g. number of rounds, achievement of consensus, stability of results) and the mean or median scores of the final rounds determine the results.[2]


yes, we are a panel of experts, yes, we are narrowing down the possible realities and, yes, at some point, I'm guessing, we will, as a site, come to a conclusion, and close the process.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by forgetmenot
 


Yay..I am a cider drinker...And of course the classic....combine harvester

Cos I've got a brand new combine harvester and I'll give you the key Come on now let's get together in perfect harmony Oh I got 20 acres and you got 43 Now I've got a brand new combine harvester and I'll give you the key More lyrics: www.lyricsmode.com...

Awesome



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


someone, not fourthmeal, also mentioned, in defense of the guy claiming his child/machine someone else's child machine, was foreclosed upon or something, that foreclosed and dissolved organizations don't have records to be searched because they were dissolved.

I figured he meant physically, which must be how they do it in maritimeromanbiblicalZetan courts because here they have records for everything.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by fourthmeal
 



I haven't called anybody a name, period. I do not resort to ad-hominem, even when attacked personally. I DO however call people out on their actions, and let their own judgements come from that. Do not misconstrue my intentions.


Wow, you just don't get it, do you?


I hate to say this because I do not like to judge anyone, ever... but you are not proving to be competent.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

You're not calling VKey incompetent?


It is sickening in a literal way, to see people who think they are properly informed, listen to supposed intelligent and independent thinking upstanding members of this community, put up such crap.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Your syntax is unclear, but it sure looks like you are calling someone improperly informed and/or unintelligent.


You have it right, mostly. Now, if you can do it without bleeding sarcasm and hate, that would be quite an accomplishment.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Okay, I'll be fair. Accusing someone of hatred isn't exactly calling them a name.


You have a lot of nerve (and folly) in immediately discounting someone with the credentials such as this Captain.


www.abovetopsecret.com...


But let's agree that calling someone arrogant and foolish is name calling.


Yep presumptions and damnation of others through preconceived notions of topics they know nothing about.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Anyone who disagrees with you is ignorant. Sounds like name calling to me.


There have been some seriously aggressive DELPHI approaches made here, and most of us aware folk see right through it.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

You still haven't explained what DELPHI is, but I think we can all agree that this statement was not meant as a compliment.


Can you possibly contribute to this thread without immediately being derogatory and judgmental?


www.abovetopsecret.com...

On the rare occasions that you do answer a direct question, why do you couple it with accusations like this?


It is with this that I know you are incompetent to carry on this discussion.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

I could go on, but I think the point has been made. Again, in fairness, I think everyone here has gotten the false impression that you sling epithets and make negative innuendos more than you do because your literary style is so similar to that of others on this thread. Indeed, the similarities of spelling, capitalization, formatting and so forth are striking. In short:



Edit to add:


Judgement of someone ALWAYS proves to me a mirror of your own imperfections.


Wow. Just, wow.
edit on 22-2-2013 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-2-2013 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)


I know people involved with this "movement" for lack of a better word. Because of this, I periodically check in on this thread to see if any new insights have been presented. Instead all I ever see is this nonsense quoted above. I am not pointing a finger at the person who posted what I have quoted above. Just using it as context so DJW001 please do not take direct offense. This message is actually directed towards the moderators.

It seems more often then not these threads get derailed by personal jabs and off-topic comments. Such as this one here, not the quote above but mine. Should I create a thread complaining about off-topic posts are can you clarify on here (as an off-topic) why they just don't get deleted? Wouldn't this force people to stay on topic? Knowing that it would be deleted would certainly keep me on topic....

Feel free to delete this one as your first act of Thread cleansing.....



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by vkey08

Originally posted by flyswatter

Originally posted by fourthmeal
reply to post by OneisOne
 


Great question. Yes, it appears the original trust was gifted to her, Caleb, and Randal. No money has changed hands as I understand it, and there is no money that is allocated to running this. In a statement made last night on air, Heather answered someone's question about this very thing. She said that no money is accepted for this, no donation allowed, and they do all their filings, investigations, and operations completely out of their own pocket.

There are many, many trusts out there, some on record and some not. I'm still learning and waiting for more data on the original 1776 Trust, which is important for me to understand all of this.


So, any rebuttal?

If you want people to take any of this seriously, one of the first things that you are going to have to do is show us that this theory is successful in court. You need to show us a court case or judicial decision that supports your claims that the OPPT (or similar movements) have been successful in achieving their goal. It would be foolish for anyone just to take it at face value and say "Ok, cool, it works!" without seeing evidence of that.

Nevermind all the "scam" stuff, nevermind the accusations going back and forth. If you are unable to show us that any evidence that this has succeeded in court, how can you expect us to be accepting of this whole idea?


Flyswatter: He's given a reason he can't find ONE successful decision, because the foreclosed upon system is hanging on for dear life..


I'm just not sure how anyone can consider what they are doing to be successful when there has not been a single documented case of them achieving their goal. If there was a court case where they were successful, it would be on the record somewhere. If someone had achieved "freedom" through the methods proposed by the OPPT, there would be evidence of it. But as far as anyone can tell, neither of these things has happened. With that being the case, they have not achieved their goal (and infact they have achieved exactly the opposite of it), and they cannot possibly be considered successful.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by vkey08
 


someone, not fourthmeal, also mentioned, in defense of the guy claiming his child/machine someone else's child machine, was foreclosed upon or something, that foreclosed and dissolved organizations don't have records to be searched because they were dissolved.

I figured he meant physically, which must be how they do it in maritimeromanbiblicalZetan courts because here they have records for everything.



An aquaintance of mine is affliated with this movement and has made many claims. Anytime I ask for physical proof I get nothing but sound and fury signfying nothing. He did provide me with a "legal" document that I showed to a lawyer friend who said it wasn't anything. I posted it on another thread but I can post it on here.

For me its one thing to believe in this yourself and do what you feel is right to stick it to the man, or to free yourself, however you want to look at it. But what bothered me, was when I stopped over and he was on a conference call and was actively misleading people into thinking that you can basically tell law enforcement to shove it without retaliation. Same goes with people struggling to afford their houses. I tried having a heart to heart with him as he is a really really intelligent person regardless of his current actions but it fell on deaf ears. *sigh*

All that was going through my mind is: "My word, you can't possibly be telling this person to do that. You don't own a home and you haven't done this, so why are you telling this person these things as though you have already provided precedence when clearly this is not the case."

He proceeded to talk circles around me but we always landed in the same spot. Which is me asking him:

"Explain to me how using a corrupt system in an equally shady way as the government makes you or your movement right?" If you don't believe in the system that is used to control us, then why use the system for your own personal gain? If you truly cared about the people, wouldn't it make more sense to abandon the system. A complete and total non-participation. If noone votes then what happens? If noone goes to stump speeches? If everyone closed their bank accounts?



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by DJW001
 


Your multi-quoting is hard to follow. I'll try my best to respond.

I stated incompetency in Vkey for many reasons, but it isn't a judgement. A judgement is "hey you are a stupid lowlife government thug who is working for a collapsed system." And that's just not me. I just observed incompetence and pointed it out. Like I said before, there are topics I steer clear of because I am incompetent on them. Or if I comment, I do so with trepidation, and expectation to be corrected.


My accusation of seeing hatred comes from the snide comments thrown in and quick little off-color jokes, as well as the subtle adjectives that serve an agenda of disinfo instead of speaking the truth. These little bits show the true face of the poster. Example, calling someone a loon, a newager with a derogatory slant, all of Vkey's little "reader's digest" comments, calling someone nonsensical, or calling the discussion nonsense. It is very obvious who holds the hatred, or at the very least, contempt for the opposing position! Most aware people see right through this. If necessary, I am fully prepared to spend some time analyzing the entire conversation to point out each and every one of these completely obvious aspects. I'd rather move forward though.


Delphi - www.vlrc.org... basically a form of topic and mind manipulation, by methods well developed over time. I suspect most people already know these techniques but don't know them by the name Delphi... I suspect that since we are subjected via media and "education" washing techniques, like over-speaking someone, pointing out unimportant differences and blowing them out of proportion, etc., they naturally act out that way. Being around actual people and treating them as your friend even if they aren't, you'll find that this is NOT a natural way to discuss something and does not serve when there is no alternate agenda.


The rest you brought up, I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you sure you are not just judging yourself here?



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by masta12d
 


And in the end that's all you will get.

No amount of BE'ing and DO'ing and imagining sentient gold will change anything. She's just the next incarnation of the same old rehashed stuff over and over again. There is absolutely NO record of her anywhere other than in business for herself (albeit with partners) anyone who was a "top banking fraud investigator" would have a footnote somewhere at some bank, but she doesn't, her "investigations" concluded almost verbatim what conspiracy sites say, her followers have taken credit for CEO's resigning, the Pope resigning, and numerous other world things, made claims about Interim Governments, made a lot of references to NESARA which is a fraud, and just blatantly making stuff up.

She or any of her trustees have still refused apparently to take any of us up on the offer to register and answer questions, instead we have people not doing any real research, but rather listening ONLY to Heather:SPEAK, and coming on here defending her, and her so called foreclosures.

If she actually had foreclosed upon any agency or business, guess what, she would be responsible for all of our wages, health benefits etc, upon taking over the things she claims to have. Since my paycheck is still issued by the Justice Department of the United States of America I would rather assume that they are still the ones paying me..

It's tough to weed through her many facets, but the more and more that is found, the more and more it looks like someone who has had a psychological break with reality.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by fourthmeal
 


And yet you continue to single me out, even though I do know quite a bit about the law, and how it relates to filing frivolous UCC forms.. my negativity and contempt comes from anyone actually believing it even after time and time an'time again it's shown NOT to work.

But thank you for the nice description on what Delphi is, I had seriously never heard of that before.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by masta12d
 

I understand your frustration masta12d. Unfortunately you checked in at a time of a lot of back and forth.

I did a post this morning that contained information on 2 cases; one in Canada, one in the USA, and in both the things OPPT is advocating failed.

Also in that post is information on a sentencing hearing coming up on Monday where the family of the convicted has claim he will use an OPPT document in court, along with Heather's (OPPT guru) response.

If you would like to read that post, you can find it here.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by OneisOne
 


Thank you, thank you!

I will check that out now.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by fourthmeal
My accusation of seeing hatred comes from the snide comments thrown in and quick little off-color jokes, as well as the subtle adjectives that serve an agenda of disinfo instead of speaking the truth. These little bits show the true face of the poster. Example, calling someone a loon, a newager with a derogatory slant, all of Vkey's little "reader's digest" comments, calling someone nonsensical, or calling the discussion nonsense.

Provide a verifiable example of someone being successful with the OPPT claims and you can end all the hatred you speak of in this thread easily.
...ah, that's right, you can't, silly me!



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


It funny you say that. He also told me that the recent purchase of NYSE was done by the OPPT and that they were going to disolve it but were going to wait a few weeks, as he stated: "To let everyone have their Christmas". Well Christmas has come and gone and yet everything remains the same.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by masta12d
reply to post by vkey08
 


It funny you say that. He also told me that the recent purchase of NYSE was done by the OPPT and that they were going to disolve it but were going to wait a few weeks, as he stated: "To let everyone have their Christmas". Well Christmas has come and gone and yet everything remains the same.


And I asked that of my own job, and was told by an OPPT supporter, that "we have to let these places figure it out for themselves, the Powers that Were are going to hold on as long as they can in the face of the light and BE'ing we are DO'ing" it's almost word for word but you get the jist.

Noting that you have to actually have a stake in something via contract to foreclose upon it...

I got this response:

"Corporations were registered by the Powers that Were therefore since the Government is in the hands of the OOPT now and dissolved, their charters are void" Or something like that.

Both have been repeated in this thread by some posters as well, it seems to be almost like a script.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 03:13 PM
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Greetings ATS,

I wanted to add one thing to this conversation: Without grouping everyone together, if the OPPT as explained were being genuine about this entire process, why must they speak in more esoteric language than the lawyers?

If they were true, they would use the actual methods of proving one's sovereignty, by being straightforward and standing up for our inherent and protected rights. Every law that is anathema to the Constitution is null and void. Every contract that does not provide equal consideration is null and void. Genius is in simplifying the process, not by expanding it, using a code that is equivalent to the IRS Tax Code in its opaque and obtuse structure.

Some of the arguments of the OPPT are valid, in my opinion; primarily that contract fraud has taken place between the banking system and the people via fractional banking, as the bank does not provide equal consideration when it enters into a contract with an individual. Being that this aforementioned individual is a "sovereign" citizen of the United States, he does not have to be parcel to this type of contract.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


I'm singling you out because you made this thread, put out that hate against someone you don't know, placed judgement on things you don't know, and still remain as if that's right and fair to do so.



For the record of this thread, I placed an email directly to Heather asking for her to respond to this thread, specifically. I have no idea if she will respond. Last heard, she was in Morocco, performing the filings to activate the CVACs and get all of this out in the open. So I'm pretty sure she's a busy person. I still emailed her because, in other audio discussions, callers would comment and say they emailed her and she would answer their question they emailed then and there to their satisfaction.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by IsntLifeFunny
 


Hi there,

What part of the OPPT info is in esoteric language? Other than the UCC filings of course, which have to be worded that way for the right info to make it to the right people "behind the curtain".

I only ask because it makes sense to me, but maybe I'm interpreting differently.



posted on Feb, 22 2013 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by IsntLifeFunny
Being that this aforementioned individual is a "sovereign" citizen of the United States, he does not have to be parcel to this type of contract.

What about a citizen of the UK?
Does the same apply in an undemocratic constitutional monarchy that is allegedly registered as a corporation in New York? These people are really asking for ridicule, but excellent entertainment value nonetheless



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