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You forgot to end your release with PREATREA PRAETORIAN CAESAR PIZZA PIZZA
No if everyone does it there will be anarchy and a lot worse situation than we have now, there are other ways to effect change without looking like a moron doing it..
there are other ways to effect change without looking like a moron doing it..
Originally posted by tinhattribunal
reply to post by vkey08
there are other ways to effect change without looking like a moron doing it..
no there's not.
according to you anyway.
Originally posted by thelongjourney
Originally posted by hawkiye
That is how it is supposed to work however Mortgages in reality do not work that way they are in fact fraudulent and no money was ever loaned to the borrower. The loan was funded by the promissory note not by any money the bank had on hand. The borrower funded his own loan and the Bank pretended like it loaned him money it is quite the scam and largely responsible for the housing bubble that crashed in 2008. As the bank creates computer entry money based on promissory notes times 9 of the value using fractional reserve this inflated the bubble till it popped. And they're are doing it again now. If enough people understood how mortgages really work there would probably be a revolution by morning.
Here is a more detailed description:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
100% not true - this is another sovereign citizen based myth. It doesn't even make any sense, because according to this theory the bank could simply make its own money by having its officers sign promissory notes all day. Why go through the whole mortgage thing? Instead I'll just form a bank and sign promissory notes for a week for $1 million each and end up a billionaire. Oh wait...it doesn't happen because thats not how things work.
What caused the housing bubble was CDS instruments, not magic money making via promissory notes. The housing bubble popped because banks were lending money to people who couldn't afford it and then bundling them into financial instruments sold to investors with a AAA credit rating that was bogus. Since the AAA rating was bogus because the underlying mortgages would not be repaid, once people stopped paying the instruments defaulted and it caused a domino effect that restricted easy credit (the blood of the housing bubble). Boom goes the bubble. How you could believe it has anything to do with your fictional version of mortgages is beyond me.
Originally posted by hawkiye
Originally posted by thelongjourney
Good job hawkeye, now apply that level of research to how money is actually created. You will see that a promissory note does not create money at all, its a popular sovereign citizen myth based on a complete bastardization of the fractional banking concept. A mortgage is based on bank funds, the value of the assets the bank holds allow it to lend out 10x that amount. A promissory note does NOT create money, and nothing you've provided says it does.
I do say good job about banks not being able to sign their own promissory note. I wish conspiracy theorists would conduct the same level of research about the rest of this non-sense.
u just showed several cases proving an bank cannot loan its own assets/funds. It's a known fact Banks create money from nothing Where doe the 9x fractional reserve to lend come from? They create money out of thin air. The promissory note is deposited in an account as an asset and viola they can now lend 9x the value of the note. They cannot lend their own credit and they have no real money Federal reserve notes are debt instruments hence credit. So if they cannot lend their own credit then where are they getting funds to lend the borrower? From the promissory note deposited and then multiplying it times 9 viola instant money. Trust me I have been researching this nearly 30 years. People have on cases because of this information because the bank cannot prove it has money on account to loan because of they dd they would be in violation of the law. I have a memorandum of law on this too Ill post some of as soon a i dig it up.
edit on 16-2-2013 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by vkey08
reply to post by hawkiye
You are citing cases from 1929, got anything a little more, uh recent? Seeing as I'm being ripped apart for using something from 2007 it's only fair that you have to show a case in the past few years that states this, as in 1933 the banking laws were radically changed to deal with the depression.
That is what ron paul says but money does not need backing by precious metals. The concept is flawed and primarily because it is almost impossible to expand the money supply if the gold or silver certificates are based on very limited natural resources. The global population and the global economy need to expand according to various factors, but how can you do this with currency BASED on finite resources?
However, banking laws were changed in the 30's as a result of the Depression, therefore anything ruled on before that becomes null and void at the start of the new law, there's nothing recent that upholds your take on it, with the newer and stricter banking laws..
Which brings me to the biggest point in all of this, for all the back and forth, for all the arguing about money, noone who has been supportive of the OPPT has been able to give me answers to the following:
Where's the money/gold they claim to have, proof please.
What regulations allow them to foreclose upon something they have no business interest in.
How can the OPPT set up their own government, somehow negating all other world governments and decree that Heather Tucci is the "Temporary Administrator for the Planet"
IF this was reality, why is everything business as usual.
And again, please prove they have taken ANYTHING from anyone (gold, silver, whatever) that they intend to give back to "the world"
So far those questions linger and have not been answered.. just deflected with many arguments about taxes and fiat money and admiralty law and the such...
Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
That is what ron paul says but money does not need backing by precious metals. The concept is flawed and primarily because it is almost impossible to expand the money supply if the gold or silver certificates are based on very limited natural resources. The global population and the global economy need to expand according to various factors, but how can you do this with currency BASED on finite resources?
Sigh... The concept is not flawed it is completely sound. The Keynesian idea that the money supply needs to be expanded to grow the economy is what is flawed This leads to inflation debasing of the currency and collapse. Everytime in history its been tried it ended in disaster and ours will too. False and arbitrary money expansion does not create wealth it debases the currency and allows politicians to run up multi trillion dollar debt.
if you believe the global economy needs to artificially expand by creating money from nothing in this manner one only need look around at the current state of affairs and ask themselves "hows that working out for us"
Creating real goods and services is the only thing that creates wealth. The only reason the money supply should expand is because of market demand. However it does not "have" to expand. Economics 101 is that the prices of goods and services will automatically adjust to the amount of money in circulation it doesn't matter how much gold and silver and other PM's there is. So tying the currency to limited precious metals of intrinsic value is absolutely sound and prevents banksters and politicians from artificially inflating the currency and debasing it and keeps prices low and reasonable. In essence it cuts up th credit card of Politicians and banksters. This is why gas was 45 cents in the 1940's and is now at about 3-4 dollars. And the artificially inflated economy is now collapsing. The market always wins in the end and it is now correcting this artificial expansion and it is not done correcting yet.
edit on 16-2-2013 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by vkey08
People do not have to directly support the ones people trust fund to know there are some fundamental and extremely serious problems with capitalism, and especially the way it has been running the last 100 years or so.
Democrats and republicans do not represent me at all, and I have no way in hell of doing anything about it other than dropping a vote for spusa or constitution party. 2% voting third party gurantees this nation and the world is going to hell in a handbasket.
You should stop demonising people who at least care about bringing change, even if it is the wrong way, and look at the big picture. For the record I am stating the movement is a symbolic joke and nothing else.
I am done with this thread as it has become pointless!
Originally posted by fourthmeal
I would like to thank all posters for or against (or heck, on the fence) about this topic for all being kind to each other at least as much as possible in a heated talk, and I would like to thank the moderators for allowing this topic to flesh out. It needs to breathe, heal, and be dealt with. Thank you. If we stay clear of ad-hominems and "keep on the ball" as a mod said, I think we can do this.
In other news, I realize there is a huge problem with the disagreement that we are under Admiralty Law, which is one of the principles of how this could all even happen on the Earth, and how the UCC and its principal-agent relationship with dark systems (systems you and I can't access but they exist to power the system) could all exist. So, what I am working on in the background is a set of court cases or some form of real proof that indeed this is true. This will take TIME. Lots of time I imagine, because much has been lost over the years.
But thanks again all for staying out of personal attack mode.
Perhaps this will save you some time.
The legal basis of some of these movements is correct. The premise is based on the "current" private Corporate relationship (Corp USA) verses original jurisdiction of the original constitution. Since the changes to the constitution were never ratified by the states as required by the original constitution, all activities of the corporate government are a violation of the constitution and are in fact unconstitutional. Whether you agree or disagree does not negate the facts. So far on this thread I have seen very few facts presented.
Historical Outline
1st: Martial Law is declared by President Lincoln on April 24th, 1863, with General Orders No. 100; under martial law authority, Congress and President Lincoln institute continuous martial law by ordering the states (people) either conscribe troops and or provide money in support of the North or be recognized as enemies of the nation; this martial law Act of Congress is still in effect today. This martial law authority gives the President (with or without Congress) the dictatorial authority to do anything that can be done by government in accord with the Constitution of the United States of America. This conscription act remains in effect to this very day and is the foundation of Presidential Executive Orders authority; it was magnified in 1917 with The Trading with the Enemy Act (Public Law 65-91, 65th Congress, Session I, Chapters 105, 106, October 6, 1917). and again in 1933 with the Emergency War Powers Act, which is ratified and enhanced almost every year to this date by Congress. Today these Acts address the people of the United States themselves as their enemy.
2nd: The District of Columbia Organic Act of 1871 created a “municipal corporation” to govern the District of Columbia. Considering the fact that the municipal government itself was incorporated in 1808, an “Organic Act” (first Act) using the term “municipal corporation” in 1871 can only mean a private corporation owned by the municipality. Hereinafter we will call that private corporation, “Corp. U.S.” By consistent usage, Corp. U.S. trademarked the name, “United States Government” referring to themselves. The District of Columbia Organic Act of 1871 places Congress in control (like a corporate board) and gives the purpose of the act to form a governing body over the municipality; this allowed Congress to direct the business needs of the government under the existent martial law and provided them with corporate abilities they would not otherwise have. This was done under the constitutional authority for Congress to pass any law within the ten mile square of the District of Columbia. Follow this link to see the effect of the District of Columbia Act of 1871.
3rd: In said Act, Corp. U.S. adopted their own constitution (United States Constitution), which was identical to the national Constitution (Constitution of the United States of America) except that it was missing the national constitution’s 13th Amendment and the national constitution's 14th, 15th and 16th amendments are respectively numbered 13th, 14th and 15th amendments in the Corp. U.S. Constitution. At this point take special notice and remember this Corp. U.S. method of adopting their own Constitution, they will add to it in the same manner in 1913.
4th: Corp. U.S. began to generate debts via bonds etc., which came due in 1912, but they could not pay their debts so the 7 families that bought up the bonds demanded payment and Corp. U.S. could not pay. Said families settled the debt for the payments of all of Corp. U.S.' assets and for all of the assets of the Treasury of the United States of America.
5th: As 1913 began, Corp. U.S. had no funds to carry out the necessary business needs of the government so they went to said families and asked if they could borrow some money. The families said no (Corp. U.S. had already demonstrated that they would not repay their debts in full). The families had foreseen this situation and had the year before finalized the creation of a private corporation of the name "Federal Reserve Bank". Corp. U.S. formed a relationship with the Federal Reserve Bank whereby they could transact their business via note rather than with money. Notice that this relationship was one made between two private corporations and did not involve government; that is where most people error in understanding the Federal Reserve Bank system—again it has no government relation at all. The private contracts that set the whole system up even recognize that if anything therein proposed is found illegal or impossible to perform it is excluded from the agreements and the remaining elements remain in full force and effect.
6th: Almost simultaneously with the last fact (also in 1913), Corp. U.S. adopts (as if ratified) their own 16th amendment. Tax protesters challenge the IRS tax collection system based on this fact, however when we remember that Corp. U.S. originally created their constitution by simply drafting it and adopting it; there is no difference between that adoption and this—such is the nature of corporate enactments—when the corporate board (Congress) tells the secretary to enter the amendment as ratified (even thought the States had not ratified it) the Se3cretary was instructed that the Representatives word alone was sufficient for ratification. You must also note, this amendment has nothing to do with our nation, with our people or with our national Constitution, which already had its own 16th amendment. The Supreme Court (in BRUSHABER v. UNION PACIFIC R. CO., 240 U.S. 1 (1916)) ruled the 16th amendment did nothing that was not already done other than to make plain and clear the right of the United States (Corp. U.S.) to tax corporations and government employees. We agree, considering that they were created under the authority of Corp. U.S.
7th: Next (also 1913) Corp. U.S., through Congress, adopts (as if ratified) its 17th amendment. This amendment is not only not ratified, it is not constitutional; the nation's Constitution forbids Congress from even discussing the matter of where Senators are elected, which is the subject matter of this amendment; therefore they cannot pass such and Act and then of their own volition, order it entered as ratified. According to the United States Supreme Court, for Congress to propose such an amendment they would first have to pass an amendment that gave them the authority to discuss the matter.
8th: Accordingly, in 1914, the Freshman class and all Senators that successfully ran for reelection in 1913 by popular vote were seated in Corp. U.S. Senate capacity only; their respective seats from their States remained vacant because neither the State Senates nor the State Governors appointed new Senators to replace them as is still required by the national Constitution for placement of a national Senator.
9th: In 1916, President Wilson is reelected by the Electoral College but their election is required to be confirmed by the constitutionally set Senate; where the new Corp. U.S. only Senators were allowed to participate in the Electoral College vote confirmation the only authority that could possibly have been used for electoral confirmation was corporate only. Therefore, President Wilson was not confirmed into office for his second term as President of the United States of America and was only seated in the Corp. U.S. Presidential capacity. Therefore the original jurisdiction government's seats were vacated because the people didn't seat any original jurisdiction government officers. It is important to note here that President Wilson retained his capacity as Commander in Chief of the military. Many people wonder about this fact imagining that such a capacity is bound to the President of the nation; however, When John Adams was President he assigned George Washington to the capacity of Commander in Chief of the military in preparation for an impending war with France. During this period, Mr. Adams became quite concerned because Mr. Washington became quite ill and passed on his acting military authority through his lead General Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Adams was concerned that if war did break out Mr. Hamilton would use that authority to create a military dictatorship of the nation. Mr. Adams averted the war through diplomacy and the title of Commander in Chief was returned to him.
(See: John Adams, by David McCullough, this book covers Mr. Adams concerns over this matter quite well. Mr. Adams was a fascinating man.)
'm not saying the Constitution was overridden, just the banking laws and therefore a 1929 ruling that banks can't lend money based upon assets, is no longer in force.. That has ZERO to do with the Constitution, and everything to do with banking regulations.
That's the difference, you're mixing apples and oranges... claiming everything is a violation of the Constitution does not automatically make it so..