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Originally posted by hawkiye
That is how it is supposed to work however Mortgages in reality do not work that way they are in fact fraudulent and no money was ever loaned to the borrower. The loan was funded by the promissory note not by any money the bank had on hand. The borrower funded his own loan and the Bank pretended like it loaned him money it is quite the scam and largely responsible for the housing bubble that crashed in 2008. As the bank creates computer entry money based on promissory notes times 9 of the value using fractional reserve this inflated the bubble till it popped. And they're are doing it again now. If enough people understood how mortgages really work there would probably be a revolution by morning.
Here is a more detailed description:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Originally posted by thelongjourney
Originally posted by hawkiye
That is how it is supposed to work however Mortgages in reality do not work that way they are in fact fraudulent and no money was ever loaned to the borrower. The loan was funded by the promissory note not by any money the bank had on hand. The borrower funded his own loan and the Bank pretended like it loaned him money it is quite the scam and largely responsible for the housing bubble that crashed in 2008. As the bank creates computer entry money based on promissory notes times 9 of the value using fractional reserve this inflated the bubble till it popped. And they're are doing it again now. If enough people understood how mortgages really work there would probably be a revolution by morning.
Here is a more detailed description:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
100% not true - this is another sovereign citizen based myth. It doesn't even make any sense, because according to this theory the bank could simply make its own money by having its officers sign promissory notes all day. Why go through the whole mortgage thing? Instead I'll just form a bank and sign promissory notes for a week for $1 million each and end up a billionaire. Oh wait...it doesn't happen because thats not how things work.
What caused the housing bubble was CDS instruments, not magic money making via promissory notes. The housing bubble popped because banks were lending money to people who couldn't afford it and then bundling them into financial instruments sold to investors with a AAA credit rating that was bogus. Since the AAA rating was bogus because the underlying mortgages would not be repaid, once people stopped paying the instruments defaulted and it caused a domino effect that restricted easy credit (the blood of the housing bubble). Boom goes the bubble. How you could believe it has anything to do with your fictional version of mortgages is beyond me.
Originally posted by thelongjourney
Good job hawkeye, now apply that level of research to how money is actually created. You will see that a promissory note does not create money at all, its a popular sovereign citizen myth based on a complete bastardization of the fractional banking concept. A mortgage is based on bank funds, the value of the assets the bank holds allow it to lend out 10x that amount. A promissory note does NOT create money, and nothing you've provided says it does.
I do say good job about banks not being able to sign their own promissory note. I wish conspiracy theorists would conduct the same level of research about the rest of this non-sense.
Originally posted by hawkiye
it's a known fact Banks create money from nothing Where doe the 9x fractional reserve to lend come from? They create money out of thin air. The promissory note is deposited in an account as an asset and viola they can no lend 9x the value of the note. They cannot lend their on credit and they have no real money Federal reserve notes are debt instruments hence credit. So if they cannot lend their own credit then where are the getting money to lend the borrower? From the promissory note deposited and then multiplying it times 9. Trust me I have been researching this nearly 30 years. People have on cases because of this information because the bank cannot prove it has money on account to loan because of they dd they would be in violation of the law. I have a memorandum of law on this too...
because electronic scanning devices have an easier time reading the all caps than the mixed case
but you're right, they knew nothing of it, they just invented it
en.wikipedia.org...
Roman type was modelled from a European scribal manuscript style of the 1400s, based on the pairing of inscriptional capitals used in ancient Rome with Carolingian minuscules developed in the Holy Roman Empire
Originally posted by thelongjourney
No its NOT a known fact that "banks create money from nothing" because they don't. Again, you are bastardizing the fractional lending concept. No one "creates" money. The federal reserve takes in money by putting US bonds on the market. The funds from the proceeds of those bonds (whose interest rates are so low that were actually making money off them) are used to loan to banks.
Banks receive that money in the form of low interest loans. They then LEND it at a higher rate. Lets say the bank gets $1.00 from the federal reserve at a rate of 2%. They now owe the fed $1.02. The bank loans $1.00 to you at a rate of 5% via a mortgage. That interest spread is their profit. No money is created from the bank, no one creates any money in fact the $1.00 originally came from whoever bought the bond.
BUT WAIT! You'll say. If the bank only has $1.00 then they can't loan that out because of fractional reserve! That would be true, except banks aren't allowed to start without having a huge amount of assets $50M+ (or $10 in this simplified example).
Evidence:
upload.wikimedia.org...
This is the last Im going to post on this, because frankly I think your in so deep no evidence will dissuade you from belief in this non-sense. However, if you can post ANY actual evidence (like you did above with court cases), I'll reply.
Originally posted by Honor93
@ hellobruce
sorry dude, my dance card is full
maybe another time ?
Lawyers continued to hand write legal documents long after typewriters were invented. As a profession, they tend to be the last to adopt new technology. When things were hand written, they had only a few ways to highlight words. They could use block printed characters instead of cursive, or they could underline. Typesetters converted the block printed characters to all caps, sometimes with different font sizes, and the underlined words to italics.
As lawyers and legal staff began to use typewriters, they could not conveniently underline, and they didn't have italic fonts, so putting words in all caps was about the only way they had to show emphasis. Judges began rewarding lawyers (or so they thought) with better decisions if they put some words, like the names of parties, in all caps, to make it easier for overworked judges to quickly scan through many pages of pleadings and make sense of them.
Originally posted by Semicollegiate
reply to post by Hefficide
The price of rent includes the expense of property taxes. So renters pay property taxes.
Just as comsumers pay all corporate taxes.
Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
And there was a time when people spoke Hebrew, Egyptian and some odd caveman grunting. Doesn't mean we follow caveman rules today.
Originally posted by hawkiye
Originally posted by thelongjourney
No its NOT a known fact that "banks create money from nothing" because they don't. Again, you are bastardizing the fractional lending concept. No one "creates" money. The federal reserve takes in money by putting US bonds on the market. The funds from the proceeds of those bonds (whose interest rates are so low that were actually making money off them) are used to loan to banks.
Banks receive that money in the form of low interest loans. They then LEND it at a higher rate. Lets say the bank gets $1.00 from the federal reserve at a rate of 2%. They now owe the fed $1.02. The bank loans $1.00 to you at a rate of 5% via a mortgage. That interest spread is their profit. No money is created from the bank, no one creates any money in fact the $1.00 originally came from whoever bought the bond.
BUT WAIT! You'll say. If the bank only has $1.00 then they can't loan that out because of fractional reserve! That would be true, except banks aren't allowed to start without having a huge amount of assets $50M+ (or $10 in this simplified example).
Evidence:
upload.wikimedia.org...
This is the last Im going to post on this, because frankly I think your in so deep no evidence will dissuade you from belief in this non-sense. However, if you can post ANY actual evidence (like you did above with court cases), I'll reply.
Where does the money come from? The federal reserve creates money form nothing also and loans it at interest to the treasury It's all debt/credit. You have no clue what you are talking about. Yea this is the last you are going to post on it because the Banksters themselves are going to tell you I am right!
Read em and weep...
www.positivemoney.org...
And a case that proves it:
First National Bank of Montgomery vs. Jerome Daly
educationcenter2000.com...
edit on 16-2-2013 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)
Thank you so much for posting this. This is exactly what I mean - you want to believe this complete BS so much that you are posting completely debunked sources. Its not even work, and this is why Im not replying to your BS anymore.
First "positive money" is not an authoritative site. Its the same as posting a youtube video. The federal reserve on the other hand WOULD know how it lends money, which I directly linked you. I wish you would read your own propaganda site - even positivemoney.org on the FRONT PAGE says money is created by the federal reserve lending money to banks. NO MONEY IS CREATED. NONE.
Also, the court case has been debunked so many times. Credit river is cited by conspiracy theorists over and over again and yet you all cant be bothered to look up the actual case:
(1) The ruling - if it were upheld - would have 0 (zip, NADA, NONE) impact outside Minnesota because it was a local decision made by a justice of the peace.
(2) It doesn't even apply to Minnesota because it was made by a justice of the peace who knew so little about the law he made a ruling in a matter he had no jurisdiction over and was 100% overturned on appeal.
(3) If there was one ounce of truth to the defendant's arguments why was it rejected COMPLETELY on appeal - the court did not uphold ANY of it. Oh by the way? That defendant was a lawyer who was later disbarred and convicted for not paying taxes.
Debunked. Try again.
Read'em and weep indeed. Weep for you that your in so deep into sovereign propaganda that you can't even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research on anything that disproves the non-sense you are a peddling. THE VERY PAGE YOU LINKED STATED:
"The bank appealed the next day, and the decision was ultimately nullified on the grounds that a Justice of the Peace did not have the power to make such a ruling.
This nullfied case and its reasoning have nevertheless been cited by groups opposing the Federal Reserve System and, in particular, the practice of fractional-reserve banking. Such groups argue the case demonstrates that the Federal Reserve System is unconstitutional. Because the Credit River decision was nullified, the case has no value as precedent. A U.S. District Court decision in Utah in 2008 mentioned half a dozen such citations, noting that similar arguments have "repeatedly been dismissed by the courts as baseless" and that "courts around the country have repeatedly dismissed efforts to void loans based on similar assertions."
And this is why I can't be bothered to reply anymore. I mean...when you make debunking you this easy...what is the point?
Originally posted by hawkiye
it as never overturned
All proceedings in the justice court in the underlying matter were declared a nullity in Zurn v. Northwestern National Bank, 284 Minn. 573, 170 N.W.2d 600 (1969). The same happened in another case brought by Jerome Daly, Daly v. Savage State Bank, 285 Minn. 503, 171 N.W.2d 218 (1969).
These cases were recently cited in Sneed v. Chase Home Fin. LLC, 2007 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 46536, 2007 WL 1851674 (S.D. Cal. June 26, 2007). The court noted the frivolous nature of the plaintiff's argument relying on these cases and went on to say:
Furthermore, the Minnesota cases cited by Plaintiff are not only unreported, but they have been vacated by the Minnesota Supreme Court in reported decisions. See In re Daly, 284 Minn. 567, 171 N.W.2d 818; Zurn v. Northwestern Nat. Bank of Minneapolis, 170 N.W.2d 600, 284 Minn. 573 (Minn. 1969); Daly v. Savage State Bank, 171 N.W.2d 218, 218, 285 Minn. 503, 503 (Minn. 1969). Plaintiff is hereby admonished she must not cite any decision under which Justice Martin Mahoney purported to question the validity of federal currency or the Constitutionality of the Federal Reserve Act, nor may she cite any opinion or decision as authoritative which no longer has authoritative status.
. But he was murdered 6 months after entering the judgement on the case the appeal was denied. The case stands.
Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by vkey08
that sounds like a good and worthy program.
A lot of communities in my state have a system where if you lose your job, or end up geting old and can't pay the taxes on your home any longer they waive the tax and allow people to keep their homes.
it isn't one i'm familiar with in the least, so i hope you understand if i reserve further opinion.
here, the elderly, feeble and 'ignorant' are exploited at alarming rates.
i recently helped someone with a transfer that was originally written as a NON-transferrable VA loan. aside from the non-transferrable part being unlawful, it was an inter-family transfer at that.
even our veterans are 'targets' of this nonsense.
and that's not just sad, it's disgusting in my book
Waiver of Taxes or Interest Taxes
The chief elected official of towns, cities and boroughs may abate a tax or interest for a person who is poor and unable to pay, or for a railroad company under certain circumstances (Chapter 204 - Sec. 12-124). A municipality’s legislative body (or its board of selectmen in a town in which the legislative body is a town meeting) may abate the property tax for an owner-occupied residential dwelling, to the extent that the tax exceeds 8% or more of the total income of all occupants (Chapter 204 - Sec. 12-124a).