Back-to-work scheme breached laws, says Court of Appeal

reply to post by stumason


The manifesto does not matter,they just do a uturn.in the olds a uturn led to a resignation.

reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse


Don't we know it...

Labour, 2005: "No plans for Tuition fees"

They win the election, pretty much the first thing they do is bring in Tuition fees, supported by Scottish MPs representing people that wouldn't be affected, without whom the law would not have passed.

That's just one example of many and they don't even bat an eyelid when they do it.

EDIT: In Japan, it is legally binding, a manifesto promise. Go back on your word there and expect to be punished.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by Ezappa

 

The first raft of JSA you get actually takes into account the NI contributions and once used up, you drop down to the statutory amount, so for the first 6 months or so he would have been getting even more than you claim he was. Not only that,.

Where do you get this information from....I know the system and how it works inside out.....whether you work or not, a single person over 25 gets £71 JSA a week...even after your contributions run out you still only get £71.
it's what the law says you need to survive and the same applies for a married couple with kids, you dont get more ££££ for a short period because you were working before being unemployed..The figures stay the same..

in fact if one of a working couple becomes unemployed he or she can only claim for six months then after 6 months they get nothing if the other is working....supposing you have worked for 40 years, you get nothing after 6 months...what a system we pay into....after all that's what NI was designed for.

Maybe your needing a wee refresher on the Bru to get your facts straight....Please stop your Pro Government spin...it doesn't work..I sense you are doing this deliberately. my only question is why here....
Jesus H Christ man, get a grip.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse

 

Don't we know it...

Labour, 2005: "No plans for Tuition fees"

They win the election, pretty much the first thing they do is bring in Tuition fees, supported by Scottish MPs representing people that wouldn't be affected, without whom the law would not have passed.

That's just one example of many and they don't even bat an eyelid when they do it.

EDIT: In Japan, it is legally binding, a manifesto promise. Go back on your word there and expect to be punished.

edit on 13/2/13 by stumason because: (no reason given)

like the tories saying they will cut immigration and borrowing. They have done neither,just the opposite in fact.

reply to post by Soloprotocol


My best mate has been out of work for over 6 months and just this Saturday he was taking me through what he got and how it dropped once he had chewed through his contributions.

Having gone to the .Gov website, the maximum you can get is £71, so you are right, however this can the drop once your contributions get used up, so you can find you are on less than £71, depending on your circumstances, so I wasn't wrong either

I note, however, that you dodge addressing the rest of the post but choose instead to quibble over a value I didn't even mention and then go on the personal attack, which is a tell tale sign you haven't really got much to say.

I'm not pro-Government, what I am is a realist and I don't live in some fantasy land where money grows on trees. The benefit system has been a joke in the UK for years and many people, myself included, are glad it is being reformed.

Yes, some people will get hacked off and some mistakes will happen, but on the whole the reforms are needed and remove the lifestyle choice of quite a good many people that simply didn't fancy going to work. There are jobs out there and these is simply no excuse to not being able to find something. I know this as I have been job hunting for my partner over the past few weeks, there are many.

You actually get more benefits by being in some low paid job than sitting on your arse now, which is the way it should be. Support the low paid workers, not the work shy .

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
in fact if one of a working couple becomes unemployed he or she can only claim for six months then after 6 months they get nothing if the other is working....supposing you have worked for 40 years, you get nothing after 6 months...what a system we pay into....after all that's what NI was designed for.

Just to address this point specifically, NI was originally brought in to pay for Health care and Pensions, with a separate component being used to cover unemployment.

Like I also said in my post you replied to is that his Tax is not just there for him to claim back, in fact the tax itself is used by Government to fund the rest of the stuff they do.

Only NI is used to cover pensions, unemployment and NHS and it is for these reasons it is daft to assume that when someone is made unemployed, that they should get all their money back, as a portion is being used to fund their pension and any medical issues they or their family have.

Ah, the back-to-work scheme.

Back to what work would that be?

If they're so concerned about the number of long-term unemployed, the first thing they might want to stop is the half a million or so bloody foreigners piling in every year.

That might free up a few vacancies.

Then perhaps they could look at apprenticeships, vocational college courses.

This could be funded by the 'hard-working' business mafia who cost the country billions every year in tax avoidance/evasion.

There you go, solved it.

Didn't take long, did it?

reply to post by stumason


Maybe if we didn't spend trillions on illegal wars at some poor sods expense or a nuclear deterrent that we are never ever gonna use we would'nt have to worry about a drop on the ocean that would be the welfare state, BTW which is something our forefathers fought and died for through taking direct action against the ruling classes and the captains of industry.....

reply to post by CJCrawley


Since 2010, the number of youngsters in Apprenticeships has gone up. My company alone has taken on a couple of dozen and I am myself a product of such a scheme back in 1999.

I agree about the flood of immigrants matey - not only do they compete for jobs but homes too. I once heard we were building 200,000 houses a year, but we had 500,000 Poles arrive on top of our own population increase.. Doesn't take much to do the maths and see that isn't going to work for long...

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
Maybe if we didn't spend trillions on illegal wars at some poor sods expense or a nuclear deterrent that we are never ever gonna use we would'nt have to worry about a drop on the ocean that would be the welfare state, BTW which is something our forefathers fought and died for through taking direct action against the ruling classes and the captains of industry.....

How were they "illegal"? Granted, Iraq was a total load of rubbish and I disagree with us there, that was for Blairs benefit that one, but Afghan is different.

The Nuclear deterrent is exactly that, hence why it won't be used. The £27 Billion pound cost over 20 years for the Trident replacement is actually a drop in the ocean compared to the trillions the Welfare state would have spent in the same period. The welfare budget, not including the NHS, will cost the UK taxpayer £117 billion this finacial year alone.

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
Maybe we should be directing our anger in this direction..
www.bbc.co.uk...

it astounds me how these parasites can be allowed to claim £169 per week for food alone when the rest of us plebs have to make do with £71 for food, clothing and gas and electricity and travel some council tax and Bedroom tax...

I know who the real Skivers and scroungers are, do you??

Yes, we absolutely should..... not only that but the tens of billions lost in Tax Evasion used by the rich and famous and used by corporations all over the UK.
They don't pay their fair share and yet they use all the same infrastructure and services that those of us who pay taxes use.

The outrage over benefits really is just a clever ploy orchestrated by rich, powerful men at the top.
They are completely Classist and want all of us at the "bottom" to fight amongst ourselves while all of the wealth gets funnelled to the top and while they manipulate the system even more so that we just pay for their existence.

And then when all the poor lose their houses and possessions and so on, those at the top who have cheated people out of their property, just come along and buy it all cheap.

The benefits reform, and the attitudes of some people on these boards, scares me, because I am permanently disabled due to a number of health issues. I'm going blind due a degenerative eye condition, I am mobility impaired due to a severe accident some years ago, and I was born deaf. I also had cancer when younger, but I beat that one. I worked hard when I was younger and able. I started off in a physics lab as a QC technician, until I got cancer. Then I worked as assistant manager in a restauraunt (no nasty chemicals to trigger another round of cancer). I've also had part time jobs as a webdeveloper to make ends meet, until the health issues became too much. Hell even now my nose is virtually touching the screen to see to write this.

But I guess Im one of those "workshy" people you're so afraid of.

However, this thread isn't about the benefits reform, its about the, what I consider to be illegal, mandatory slave labour system known as "workfair", I think it's called, and the court verdict thereof.

The ECHR has already said its wrong and unfair, now they've said it also breaches laws in a very explicit set of circumstances. Its things like this that the EU, for all its sins, protects us from, or at least tries to.

I applaud the verdict, for what it is, but I wish it went further, and said the entire scheme is illegal.

reply to post by BMorris


Just to be clear, I have nothing against those who are genuinely off work for health reasons. I have a mate who has been off for 18 months with a brain tumour - fortunately the company has been really good and kept him on, albeit at 60% salary, but they kept his position open and he is now starting back into work.

But as you said yourself, that is entirely different than the topic up for discussion.

Oh, the ECHR says everything is illegal - if they had their way we'd all be in bubble wrap, in our homes, so we couldn't hurt ourselves or offend others....

Originally posted by BMorris

I applaud the verdict, for what it is, but I wish it went further, and said the entire scheme is illegal.

Absolutely agree.
Years ago, you used to go into a Job Centre, look on a board or speak to someone behind a desk, they would phone a company,say "I've got so and so here, when are you interviewing?" etc etc..
The Job Centre (clue's in the title) used to be the place where you went if you were out of work for Help to get back into work.

These Work Fair/Welfare to Work schemes are not Schemes at all.... they're scams.
They're making the 3-4 companies that run them, millions, if not billions of pounds for doing what every report and independent panel has said you would have more luck WITHOUT these schemes doing... FIND A JOB.

You're actually less likely to find work on a welfare to work or workfair scheme.... that is a FACT.

Yet because a few of the Governments pals want to make some money and exploit the poor, down-on-their-luck jobless for some cheap/free labour, people have to go on these schemes.
I think they get either £10,00 or £12,000 per person over 2 years.... most people are on these schemes for 2 years.

It's a joke.


The stats show that these Programmes do NOT work

www.telegraph.co.uk...

www.guardian.co.uk...


I'm sure most people remember this being all over the news anyway...


These schemes are a joke.

We should go back to the old system.... but I guess there's no money and free labour in just finding people work is there? There must be a way to exploit and make money from the unemployed.

reply to post by blupblup


My own personal view when it comes to Job hunting is not to use the Job centre at all -every job I have ever had has come from either searching myself or by using an Agency. The Job centre, the few times I went in, seemed to be staffed with planks which were less use than a chocolate fireguard.

The sweeping stereotypes made in this thread disgusts me but shows what a great job the government are doing to villianize those out of work and claiming benefits.

I want to hear those cretins who call ALL, not just some or a few but ALL of those on benefits lazy... yeah, I want to hear what they have to say when they're made redundant or lose their jobs to company buy-outs or takeovers, or the company they work for goes bust. All those hours they've put in, all the hard work, all the overtime and taxes paid... then to be told you're lazy and "get a job"...

People truely sicken me

Rant over...

reply to post by Mister_Bit


Has anyone done so in this thread though?

By that I mean call ALL people on benefits scroungers... I don't believe anyone has...

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by symptomoftheuniverse
Only thing we can do is never vote for a political party again as they are all corrupt. Represent the people my arse.

Herein lies the point I was making earlier - people vote for party's when so such recognition actually exists in Parliament or the voting booth - you're supposed to vote for the candidate but how many even know who their candidate is and just vote along party lines?

Does that say "Hater of Labour!" under your name? lol

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by blupblup

 

My own personal view when it comes to Job hunting is not to use the Job centre at all -every job I have ever had has come from either searching myself or by using an Agency. The Job centre, the few times I went in, seemed to be staffed with planks which were less use than a chocolate fireguard.

Here, just to keep you up to date on what is expected from a job seeker nowadays...
consent.me.uk...

Why should the tax payer fund low paid work? I get the whole gap in the CV thing, but if you are going to be considered "in employment" then you should be paid the minimum wage, and receive no JSA. It should be the employers who pay this, they must need the staff. This whole work placement scheme has been one big scam. If they had gotten away with it then it would have practically proven the whole fema forced labour camp croud somewhat correct as it would only have been the start. Also, forget the lazy and concentrate more on the mostly Africans here on asylum who are working in one name while claiming Housing Benefit, Council Tax Benefit and JSA in another name and who claim Child Benefit for kids who don't even live in this country. We've got our own [real] scroungers, do we really need to import them?

And when all is said and done, those who actually need the benefits rarely get the help they need.