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Back-to-work scheme breached laws, says Court of Appeal

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posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 08:22 AM
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reply to post by Cosmic4life
 


So im a facist for expecting those that have been LONG TERM unemplpyed to actually do something fpr their free housing and cash they are handed by the tax payer. I guess im a fascist then.




posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 08:24 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


Seems calling people fascist and racist is the new vogue on ATS if they have a differing opinion. Talk about slipping standards........



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 08:24 AM
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It might also be worthy to point out one cannot go into full time college and sign on... Hence many young people have found them selves unable to attend college due to the fact it will cost them travel and food...and yet they have no money.... whats one to doo aye...??



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Cosmic4life
 


So im a facist for expecting those that have been LONG TERM unemplpyed to actually do something fpr their free housing and cash they are handed by the tax payer. I guess im a fascist then.


Unemployed should be given a 12 month limit of being able to recieve benefits beefore a cut off period of say... 3 months? Win-win.

Every body motivated enough should be able to find work within twelve months.

Thats how you sort out the riff raff, NOT by slave labour.

Pretty simple to eh?
edit on 12-2-2013 by ObservingYou because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 08:28 AM
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reply to post by ObservingYou
 


The same thing i did when i was at college. Work in mcdonalds the hours you are not at college. I was handed nothing for free by the government when i qas 18 and i got by ok. What makes the current generation think they should get everything for free?



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by ObservingYou
If thats the case, why did you mention those younger generations in such a *nonchalant* manner?


What, by saying the only time you don't get housing benefit is by being a childless, single, under 21? Because I've been there mate, during Labours hey day too when they were handing money out like it was sweets and I was still not entitled to anything. It was hardly "nonchalant", but rather a simple, matter of fact statement.

I don't do "nonchalant".


Originally posted by ObservingYou
There are 2.8 million under 21's out of work living off £51 getting the brunt of most the blame game, when they have done nothing wrong except leave school and realised there are NO jobs.


And of those 2.8 million, what is the percentage that live with their parents? Once you get that figure, you will see why it isn't really such a problem they get £50 a week for doing nothing, as they don't have to pay anything!


Originally posted by ObservingYou
I wasn't specifically saying you blamed them either..Sorry if it sounded that way.


I realise this can be an emotive topic, which is why I have not gone down the same route as some and got all tetchy about it and calling people "fascists" and other ridiculous, childish names.

Instead I deal with facts and the facts are that those who do have rent/bills to pay, yet not enough money to do so, get a good handout from the state.

I sympathise with the younger generation at being unemployed, but again, the facts of the matter are that most are looked after by their parents, this is born out by recent figures showing most young men and many young women do not leave home until they have reached 30 now, owing to the cost of it.

In fact, JSA is pittance compared to the Housing benefit bill which is paid to millions of low-paid workers, not just the umeployed, because of the Baby Boomers ruining the country with their reckless spending and house price speculation, but that's another topic entirely...



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by ObservingYou
 


So we agree on one thing. Benefits should not just be handed out for as long as the recipient keeps claiming. Id be all for a system that has a limited period of claim.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by ObservingYou
It might also be worthy to point out one cannot go into full time college and sign on... Hence many young people have found them selves unable to attend college due to the fact it will cost them travel and food...and yet they have no money.... whats one to doo aye...??


Walk?

Ride a bike?

Ask mum for a tenner?

I find it hard to believe that the EMA had such a big impact on people going to College, but it is being used as an excuse not to go now.

I've seen interviews of people in London saying

"I can't go to da college now, innit - they don't pay my bus fair and it's bear expensive"...

But they live a mile or two away from the college... Walk you little pillock!



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by ObservingYou
 


The same thing i did when i was at college. Work in mcdonalds the hours you are not at college. I was handed nothing for free by the government when i qas 18 and i got by ok. What makes the current generation think they should get everything for free?


I rarely go into McDonald's, but I did recently and all the saff were Eastern European. These were the jobs me and my friends did when we were at college ( I was on trolleys at Sainsburys). We certainly did not have to compete with the rest of Europe for these jobs at the time. My town was placing recruitment advertising in polish newspapers. Now our youngsters are up against a whole new community. It's much harder for the youth of today to get jobs than when I was younger.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by andy06shake
 


Do explain how working in return for state benefits, which can amount to a sizeable sum per month - as of April this year, benefits are capped but will still be up to £500 a week - is somehow working for free?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha...stops for breath.....Ahhh...hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....Take yer nose out the Daily Heil for a minute before you spout Tory left wing propaganda please....500 quid a week...Ahhh...hahahahahahahahahahahaha..


Workfare is evil...and here's the only reason you need to know why, though there are many others...If a employer get his labour for free why the hell would he employ someone he would have to pay a living wage to ever again.....trust me on this...

I have been following and protesting about these slave schemes for over a year now and the chance of anyone on one of these schemes ever getting a full time job out of it was around 0%...fact!! and 100,000 have been on and disgarded just like that, making way for the next bunch of slaves....get yer facts straight about workfare and the like before coming here and doing Herr Scmitts work for him..



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by Soloprotocol
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha...stops for breath.....Ahhh...hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....Take yer nose out the Daily Heil for a minute before you spout Tory left wing propaganda please....500 quid a week...Ahhh...hahahahahahahahahahahaha..



Well, that concise and well put together argument just blows me clean out the water. I have no idea how I am ever going to come back to such a well though out argument...

Tory.... Left wing?

Whaaaa?

Anyhoo, piss taking aside - it is £500 a week once you factor in all the other state benefits.

Like I said, the only reason you wouldn't get the others and only get JSA is by being under 21 and living at home with mum, in which case only getting JSA is hardly a problem, is it? If you do have your own place and a family to support you will, very easily, get £500 a week in your combined benefits.

By all means, prove me wrong....
edit on 12/2/13 by stumason because: Quote tags wrong....doh...
edit on 12/2/13 by stumason because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by ObservingYou
It might also be worthy to point out one cannot go into full time college and sign on... Hence many young people have found them selves unable to attend college due to the fact it will cost them travel and food...and yet they have no money.... whats one to doo aye...??


Walk?

Ride a bike?

Ask mum for a tenner?

I find it hard to believe that the EMA had such a big impact on people going to College, but it is being used as an excuse not to go now.

I've seen interviews of people in London saying

"I can't go to da college now, innit - they don't pay my bus fair and it's bear expensive"...

But they live a mile or two away from the college... Walk you little pillock!


I still think you are delusional to think many are supported by their parents. 60% of my generation that *I am aware of* have all been kicked out or left home at 15/16/17..

I was one of those, and I had to drop out of college due to not being able to travel or eat.

Your forgetting many of our parents are on Income support and druggies/alchys.

Its us younguns that were left to pick up the peices. We are the forgotten generation.

Thats from my personal exsperience, and I promise, scouts honour, I'm not strecting the truth.

I do realise that there are young people out there who may be supported by their fairly well-to-do parents, but my mothers attitude was "your 16, out the door!"

On one of the days I was kipping on a friends settee and needed funds for food and to attened college I rang the Job Centre for a Crisis loan and they said............. "Er, your only 17, you mother can support you"

Well my mother didn't support me, how they heck was I supposed to get a leg up with the whole of the world telling me false facts and refusing to HELP me...?!?!

Again, I AM, one example of thousands, if not a million or so.

edit on 12-2-2013 by ObservingYou because: Corrected my estimate from 70 to 60%



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 

I'm not saying you cant get £500 per week, but that is few and far between, usually London area, but your argument is that the great unwashed get handed £500 per week....utter tosh....try £71 JSA or £99 ESA per week the rest going ether to a council or housing association or private landlord...Just remember that £71 or $99 goes back onto the system in taxes...and huge taxes at that...

maybe instead of jealousy and paying lip service to Daily mail spin you may need a spell on ESA then you can comwe on here and tell everyone how you lived the high life and you never want to work again....

You gotta love the sheeple and how they allow themselves to be divided and Conquered by the Governments and media of this world...

remember...once the Tories have destroyed the unemployed and sick and disabled they will be coming for YOU.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 09:05 AM
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I find it very strange those saying the young need to get off their butts and do something yet when one does and gets this farce overturned in the courts the same people cry foul.

I'm not young but I am very proud of the stand this young lady made.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by colin42
I find it very strange those saying the young need to get off their butts and do something yet when one does and gets this farce overturned in the courts the same people cry foul.

I'm not young but I am very proud of the stand this young lady made.


Well said



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by Soloprotocol
 


If it is as hard as you say it is on esa why dont you get a job then befoee you say there isnt any jobs..there is for those determained enough. If all else fails stand on a busy main road in a sandwich sign advertising your services. It has worked for others with that kind of determaination.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 09:12 AM
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Actually, there should be incentive, ie. for those without references and experience, 15-20 hour weeks, not 40, having opportunities to learn different trades, jos, ie. and it should be rotation. The only problem is, if that became normal for low paid, or doing this with a bonus, wouldn't many employees stop paying real workers, and opt for many untrained trainees? That has happened alot here in Canada.

For those without work experience, getting some experience would be a good thing, but its not being done right and the way they're doing it is indeed slavery, 40 hour weeks and no payment, which if you're a single on assistance would mean really low illegal wage. ie a single here just a few years ago, was under 600 a month, now its a little more probably. There should also be a bonus, because there is cost associated with going to work, having clothes, food, etc, transportation that one on very low assistance couldn't come up with, as they're unable to even come up with adequate food.

I think small business grants and training for everyone would be lovely.
edit on 12-2-2013 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
It was hardly slave labour - they were getting all their benefits in return for doing a work placement.

Neither has it been "overturned" in it's entirety but rather specific technicality has been found to be unlawful, which is going to have new regulations brought in to sort out, so this is not the end of the scheme either.

Also, it is worth noting that for the few bad apple stories like this Poundland one, you can find others where it has actually worked quite well. There are comments on the BBC article from owners of businesses where they have used this scheme and they have trained people up and even kept some people on.

Fundamentally, I do not see what is wrong with this - it is just the execution that is flawed. I've long said that people in long term unemployment (6 months +) should do some kind of work in return for their benefits, whether it be in a local store or in the community, just so they can improve their own skills, self-esteem and employability.

One of the biggest stumbling blocks for anyone who is long-term unemployed and seeking work is the huge gap on their CV. My own missus has this problem as she had a 5 year gap where she was a stay at home mum. I've had to falsify her CV using my own work history, doctored to fit her and now she is getting job offers left and right.


Indeed it was, The benefits she was getting would have barely paid her transport costs getting to work.
How about you come work for me £1,80 per hour and we will see if your opinion on this issue changes or not.

Or are you somehow too good to work for £1.80 per hour? really?? well why expect her to do it?
edit on 12-2-2013 by dmsuse because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 09:15 AM
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Just in case anyone has forgotten or never bothered to read about OUR Human rights...here ye go..pay particular attention to article 4..
www.un.org...



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by Soloprotocol
Just in case anyone has forgotten or never bothered to read about OUR Human rights...here ye go..pay particular attention to article 4..
www.un.org...
Article 23 as well






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