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Back-to-work scheme breached laws, says Court of Appeal

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posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 07:10 AM
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reply to post by andy06shake
 


Do explain how working in return for state benefits, which can amount to a sizeable sum per month - as of April this year, benefits are capped but will still be up to £500 a week - is somehow working for free?




posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 07:12 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
The government should just refuse benafit payments then. They are under no obligation to pay them. I will tell you what slave labour is... Going to work and getting taxed to the hilt so that some lazy arse can sit at home and get given money by the government without giving anything back. Im sick and tired of being skint despite working 60 hours a week whilst people sit at home and take my tax money for free.


I just want to comment on the fact that despite working hard for 60 hours a week you remain on the boarderline of being skint, by all means you should have loads of cash to spare for enjoyment so either you are overspending on stuff, living beyond sustainable means or not being paid enough per hour in your current job.

As for your complaint towards the 'free-loaders' all the money they spend goes back into the economic system. Maybe not directly to the government in filing taxes but certainly through consumer base payments.

It always seems that a little thing as paper monies can cause such resentment and bitterness between people. Think about that. We humans can be petty and easily divided when money is involved.

Remember that money is debt and debt is money be it paper or digital.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 07:14 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 




It was hardly slave labour - they were getting all their benefits in return for doing a work placement.



And I suppose we should just over look the MINIMUM wage?



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by andy06shake
 


Do explain how working in return for state benefits, which can amount to a sizeable sum per month - as of April this year, benefits are capped but will still be up to £500 a week - is somehow working for free?


£500 a week,where did that figure come from??

i'd love some evidence for this and how do i go about getting it??



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by stumason

One of the biggest stumbling blocks for anyone who is long-term unemployed and seeking work is the huge gap on their CV. My own missus has this problem as she had a 5 year gap where she was a stay at home mum. I've had to falsify her CV using my own work history, doctored to fit her and now she is getting job offers left and right.


So what your saying is, instead of doing these work program's for the experience. just make up jobs you haven't done and put them on your CV, then the offers come flooding in? Nice short cut.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 07:15 AM
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reply to post by cjttatu
 


www.gov.uk...

Simple, easy, google search..........



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 07:17 AM
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reply to post by paraphi
 




Well although I have reservations, I think the fact that work experience is being offered to these work-inexperienced people is actually quite good. Of course, these people do get paid in the sense that they continue with their generous welfare benefits.


Generous benefits? You try housing your self, feeding your self and clothing your self on £51 per week, ~(~not to metion travel expences) I know I struggled!!

And yes that was because I was under 21 at the time, but age discrimination in this country is another matter...


edit on 12-2-2013 by ObservingYou because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 07:18 AM
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reply to post by ObservingYou
 


With a maximum benefit of £2000 a month, which is tax free by the way, that far exceeds the minimum wage. I am on just over £40k and only see £2300 a month after tax and I do a 37.5 hour week. Granted, that is the maximum benefit, but with housing benefit, council tax benefit, JSA and a child or two thrown in, you can quickly get that amount paid to you.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 07:18 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


"Do explain how working in return for state benefits, which can amount to a sizeable sum per month - as of April this year, benefits are capped but will still be up to £500 a week - is somehow working for free?"

If you are working 30 hours, you should be paid for 30 hours! Thats what we have a minimum wage for is it not?

These poor sods have nothing in the first place, if they are made to work voluntary or mandatory then they should be paid!

IMHO state benefits are chicken feed!
edit on 12-2-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by cjttatu

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by andy06shake
 


Do explain how working in return for state benefits, which can amount to a sizeable sum per month - as of April this year, benefits are capped but will still be up to £500 a week - is somehow working for free?


£500 a week,where did that figure come from??

i'd love some evidence for this and how do i go about getting it??


This £500 none sense is taking into account ALL benefits, the Work Programme et al are for JSA and ESA etc... Not all of those, are also in reciet of Housing benefits etc etc... As I said previously, there are A LOT of circumstances to take into account.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 07:24 AM
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It may be a good time to point out I actually work for one of the Work Programme providers...

So although my opinion may appear biased, I am in fact more informed than most.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 07:24 AM
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'Dole scroungers' sucking the blood out of the tax payers’ pockets are evil

But why is it ok for big business paying wages that are so low they need topping up out of tax payers money. Free labour given to the same big businesses again paid for out of the public purse both indirectly subsidising businesses further. Businesses that report huge profits and bonuses for the few at the top whilst often avoiding paying taxes.

I know the ones I see as being the parasites


+2 more 
posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


Only the long term unemployed were put on these programmes. There has to be some sort of deterrant for those intent of living a life on benefits. Like i say i work 60 hours a week and probably do not have anything more than those career benafit takers. Makes me sick. If people lile me just gave up work there wouldnt be any money to pay benafits itis unfair on people like me that these people dont have to do a.ything for their money whilst i have to work every waking hour


Your a Fascist....

" Arbeit macht frei " .... your Righteous Indignation makes me sick....If you have to work for 60 hrs why don't you get a BETTER JOB !! ahhh there's the rub eh ?!?

Most people that are on JSA have had at least 1 job...only the youth are likely to have not had a job...by definition (youth) long term unemployed from 18 to 22 is not a lifetime on benefits...though if jobs are not created they may be.

I have had 6 jobs in the past 10 yrs...due to my being in Precision Engineering the jobmarket is based on orders....in lax years shifts get cut, so I have been on JSA...and I payed for it and earned it...should I have gone on a work programme ?? I can assure you I would've told them where to shove-it. !!

The problem in this country is lack of job creation ... anything else is deflection.

The reason you have to work for 60hrs a week .... IS BECAUSE THE BANKERS ROBBED US OF TRILLIONS......please direct your Venom to where it belongs.

Working for nothing under duress is Slavery....

If you feel that you are working for 60 hrs a week for nothing ...welcome to the world....your a slave to the debt system.

C...



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by cjttatu
 


www.gov.uk...

Simple, easy, google search..........


Thanks for that


That's terrible it includes housing plus others,that is going to cause alot of problems...

plus with other policies being enforced,alot of people will be on the street,

yet if your from another country,you simply have to deny being able to speak english and you get a translator and all available benefits.....

getting messy isn't it



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 07:50 AM
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IF these companies are taking FREE LABOUR - then LOGICALLY they have NO NEED to HIRE. Hence DESTROYING job opportunities....
reply to post by ObservingYou
 


Exactly.......

C...



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by woodwardjnr
So what your saying is, instead of doing these work program's for the experience. just make up jobs you haven't done and put them on your CV, then the offers come flooding in? Nice short cut.


Pretty much! She has been in work for 5 years, but only part time retail, so no-one wants to know if she applies for well-paid full time work, so I just added some customer service jobs I did when I was younger It is wrong, but at the same time, it is also wrong that jobs should demand experience but not actually give anyone the chance to accrue said experience...


Originally posted by ObservingYou
Generous benefits? You try housing your self, feeding your self and clothing your self on £51 per week, ~(~not to metion travel expences) I know I struggled!!



That's just JSA - don't forget housing benefit, council tax benefit, tax credits, child benefit etc etc The rest of us have to pay our own rent and council tax, the unemployed do not. It's all very well saying "how do you live on £50" a week, but after the rest of us have paid our bills, we're no better off, in fact usually worse.


Originally posted by andy06shake
If you are working 30 hours, you should be paid for 30 hours! Thats what we have a minimum wage for is it not?

These poor sods have nothing in the first place, if they are made to work voluntary or mandatory then they should be paid!

IMHO state benefits are chicken feed!


For someone in receipt of the maximum benefits, so pretty much anyone with a wife, kid and house, that would work out as £500/30hrs = £16.66 an hour..... Is that not slightly above the minimum wage? Obviously, individual cases vary, which is why it is also wrong to hold this graduate up as an example of the system "failing" as she probably lived with mum and dad and had no bills.


Originally posted by cjttatu
Thanks for that


That's terrible it includes housing plus others,that is going to cause alot of problems...

plus with other policies being enforced,alot of people will be on the street,


Don't see why, £500 a week (tax free) should be plenty to pay your rent and other bills whilst still leaving enough left over for a few beers or other luxuries. Like I said above, it isn't much less than I earn in full-time work and I have to pay my bills, rent and council tax plus other bits and bobs myself.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by ObservingYou
Not all of those, are also in reciet of Housing benefits etc etc...


Maybe not all, but you can place a good wager that most people on JSA don't live with Mum and Dad, probably have a family and also a house, so would be in receipt of other benefits.

In fact, housing benefit is paid out to those in low-work as well, 87% of Housing benefit claimants are actually in work, so it stands to reason a sizeable chunk of JSA claimants also claim other benefits, so it isn't "nonsense" at all to use the overall benefit cap and it is also misleading to throw around the lowly JSA figure as "all you get", because it isn't.

The only time someone on JSA won't get anything else is if they are under 21, childless and living with mum.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 08:15 AM
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The only time someone on JSA won't get anything else is if they are under 21, childless and living with mum.


I've been there, and there are a WHOLE generations there... Isn't it nice how we get over looked



Quick to blame them for all the countries woe's tho aye..

And many aren't even supported by their parents.. You older generations really are clue less most the time.
edit on 12-2-2013 by ObservingYou because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 08:17 AM
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reply to post by ObservingYou
 


When did I blame anyone?

I don't believe I did, so stop trying to put words in my mouth.

EDIT: Older? I'm only just 30 mate and I've done my time unemployed and homeless. This time 10 years ago, I had no job and was sleeping on friends couches - I was kicked out of home at 16 and have made my way in the world without ever claiming a single benefit.. So don't think for one moment you can preach to me as if I am "out of touch"....
edit on 12/2/13 by stumason because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


If thats the case, why did you mention those younger generations in such a *nonchalant* manner?

There are 2.8 million under 21's out of work living off £51 getting the brunt of most the blame game, when they have done nothing wrong except leave school and realised there are NO jobs.

I wasn't specifically saying you blamed them either..Sorry if it sounded that way.





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