No Proof is NO PROOF for Inexistence of God., page 1

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Topic started on 12-2-2013 @ 03:52 AM by logical7

As the title very simply points out that the best arguement to disprove existence of God is that there seems no proof(which in itself is not true but lets grant it)
having no proof of a statement only has 50% chance of it being false.
So nobody with rational thinking can ever have a 100% claim that God doesnt exist, if he/she does claim that then he/she goes into a 'belief group/system' which is a bit ironic.
I have also seen that atheist are very eager to promote their 'belief' and then claim that they are rational which as i mentioned above dont fit together.
I agree that theists may not be rational(according to atheist) but also atheists are not objectively rational.
The only rational stand is a 50% chance of God existing or in short "Maybe"
.
what you all say?

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 04:04 AM by BlindBastards

Aside from fairytales in a book, where’s the indisputable evidence that God exists?

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 04:09 AM by logical7

Originally posted by BlindBastards
Aside from fairytales in a book, where’s the indisputable evidence that God exists?

'Intelligent design'
however thats not the exact topic, so do you agree to be objectively rational and say "maybe" to that question(OP)?
Then we can talk further.

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 04:16 AM by JibbyJedi

reply to post by logical7

What do you believe? I am just curious what the host of the thread believes.

I assume you believe in God. OK, which "image" do you believe?
Old man in the clouds? Invisible force that's silent? Anunnaki aliens? Etc?

I can't mention certain things in here, but I can say the results, which is that I have connected to "a source consciousness", whatever that means. It was the most dominant consciousness I could reach, and it seemed to know me & all about everything.

I later called it, The Force, and thought of myself as a Jedi in touch with "the Force" ever since.... a little background for anyone who doesn't care. Regardless, it shaped my future timelines.

Organized Religions have been mutated & manipulated beyond finding their original intent at this point. The only way to get some real answers... is to cheat. That's all I can say here, but piercing the vale requires some cheat codes and if you don't want to spend 80+ years researching and traveling the globe for answers, punching in a cheat code can get you what you want to know sometimes.

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 04:20 AM by BlindBastards

“Intelligent design”, please expand upon that point and how it must be God...

I see the basis of your argument, however I dare say it is a flawed premise. Because there is no proof to argue otherwise, one should believe something to be true?

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 04:26 AM by JibbyJedi

reply to post by BlindBastards

“Intelligent design”, please expand upon that point and how it must be God...

If I may, I'd like to chime in here.

The very statement "intelligent design" defines an intelligent "source", no?
Fractal designs and mathematical patterns aren't just "out of nowhere" from nothingness by coincidence... that belief is the real stretch in beliefs.

Call it "God", the "Force", Holy Spirit, higher consciousness self, Buddha, Satan, the Moon Matrix, etc, etc.... it is "intelligent", that we can be sure of. Identifying the main source... that's not something meant to be found in 1 lifetime, if it was, what a boring existence it would be without all the mystery & adventure.

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 04:28 AM by DeadSeraph

reply to post by logical7

This is a new and innovative approach to a problem that is thousands of years old and has occupied far less intelligent minds than yours. Thanks for solving it for us.

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 04:34 AM by ManFromEurope

May I quote Douglas Noel Adams, Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy, Babelfish:

"Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful could evolve purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God. The argument goes something like this:

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white, and gets killed on the next zebra crossing. "

Therefore, there is no God. Other examples: here

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 04:50 AM by BlindBastards

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
reply to post by BlindBastards

“Intelligent design”, please expand upon that point and how it must be God...

If I may, I'd like to chime in here.

The very statement "intelligent design" defines an intelligent "source", no?
Fractal designs and mathematical patterns aren't just "out of nowhere" from nothingness by coincidence... that belief is the real stretch in beliefs.

Call it "God", the "Force", Holy Spirit, higher consciousness self, Buddha, Satan, the Moon Matrix, etc, etc.... it is "intelligent", that we can be sure of. Identifying the main source... that's not something meant to be found in 1 lifetime, if it was, what a boring existence it would be without all the mystery & adventure.

I’d be inclined to call it nature. I suppose that is a 'force’, of sorts. Again, I see the point trying to be made, though still fail to see its validity of a god.

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 04:52 AM by bloodreviara

Actually you are correct in one simple aspect, to prove god does not exist
one would have to take action, however god was never proven to exist
to begin with hence religion is making a claim that their god is real,
to make a claim and suggest we take it as truth one must ask for evidence,
if you wish to make any claim at all the validity is the only thing that matters.

If they want to teach these things in any schools or have them taken
seriously then they very well need to meet the same burden of proof
that science is required to meet, the problem is they wish to
skip the part about proving THEIR claim and simply go to the part
where we all go oh ok it must be true then, if we were to do this then
any and every religion would have to receive equal "truth" as they all
make a claim about a god like being, actually i should say most not
all of them do, so who has it right would be the question and if we
have to simply take their word for it then how would you ever know
for certain how to attain any form of salvation? answer is you simply
would never know. so sure who needs proof if you want the truth?
i mean everyone knows truth is simply truth and can be proven as
such by making a claim right?

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 05:04 AM by reeferman

reply to post by logical7

first laugh of the day..

your forgetting the bible was written by men, and never has produced a single shred of evidence to prove otherwise. There are no faxes from heaven. A God would not need to write anything down.

Matthew 18:19 "Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 18:20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

step 1) go gather your faithful friend or two.
step 2) pray. either for a healing of someone in need of a certified incurable illness, or another miracle.
step 3) prove to the world this fairy tale story is real.

Many truly honest, sincere & faithful people over the last couple of thousand years have tried.
nothing has happened yet.
end of story.

ps. afterwards remember..

Dont Panic!

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 05:12 AM by logical7

reply to post by JibbyJedi

i believe in an "imageless" God. I can go futher to clear my belief and say that if it can be 'imagined' then its not God.
I do use pronouns for God as 'IT' seems odd and the accepted address is He, Him etc
btw, i am a muslim to just clear it, muslims dont believe in an old man in sky.

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 05:19 AM by logical7

Originally posted by BlindBastards
“Intelligent design”, please expand upon that point and how it must be God...

I see the basis of your argument, however I dare say it is a flawed premise. Because there is no proof to argue otherwise, one should believe something to be true?

i am not asking to accept it as true, just a maybe, a 50%
and i guess JibbyJedi answered the "Intelligent Design"

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 05:20 AM by logical7

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
reply to post by logical7

This is a new and innovative approach to a problem that is thousands of years old and has occupied far less intelligent minds than yours. Thanks for solving it for us.

Thanks for the sarcasm, it was brave of you to deflect the "maybe"

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 05:33 AM by logical7

reply to post by ManFromEurope

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing." "But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED." "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

the inital assumption "I refuse to prove I exist" is an assumption!
The hints exist but not an outright proof or what fool will not believe?
We dont see any atheists of Gravity, do we?
Its like the story of a scientist and God
scientist:"we have advanced enough and dont need you, we can now make a man with mud too"
God:"really!! Show me"
scientist bends to get some mud
God:"uh No, use your own mud!!

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 05:37 AM by Flavian

reply to post by logical7

Interesting and correct argument. However, equally, using the same argument, there is no proof FOR the existence God either.

In other words, belief is a decision on whether or not you choose to believe. God maybe the infallible all knowing Supreme Being that many choose to believe. Alternatively, he maybe the figment of the imagination that i choose to believe.

Either way, as long as people aren't imposing their will and beliefs on others based on this choice then good luck to them. Personally, if belief brings people happiness, then i wish them all the best.

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 05:42 AM by logical7

Originally posted by bloodreviara
Actually you are correct in one simple aspect, to prove god does not exist
one would have to take action, however god was never proven to exist
to begin with hence religion is making a claim that their god is real,
to make a claim and suggest we take it as truth one must ask for evidence,
if you wish to make any claim at all the validity is the only thing that matters.

If they want to teach these things in any schools or have them taken
seriously then they very well need to meet the same burden of proof
that science is required to meet, the problem is they wish to
skip the part about proving THEIR claim and simply go to the part
where we all go oh ok it must be true then, if we were to do this then
any and every religion would have to receive equal "truth" as they all
make a claim about a god like being, actually i should say most not
all of them do, so who has it right would be the question and if we
have to simply take their word for it then how would you ever know
for certain how to attain any form of salvation? answer is you simply
would never know. so sure who needs proof if you want the truth?
i mean everyone knows truth is simply truth and can be proven as
such by making a claim right?

you have a nice arguement and i agree to that, i cannot just claim anything and say its true unless proved otherwise.
You have full right to assume it untrue until proved but then as i saying in post before this, a proved thing cease to be a matter of belief and also seriously crumbles 'free will'
but i will not use that arguement as that is my belief.
Would you be ok with hints rather than concrete proof?

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 05:51 AM by logical7

reply to post by reeferman

There are no faxes from heaven. A God would not need to write anything down.

do you see that you are defining God. Although you are right in a sense, i am not claiming Bible as my source.
You are doing what theists do when you define God. Why?
You define then you compare with scriptures and then reject, is that logical?
You jumped ahead of the topic, we are discussing 'does God exist' and you went ahead and started to define how He is or how He is not.

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 05:57 AM by logical7

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by logical7

Interesting and correct argument. However, equally, using the same argument, there is no proof FOR the existence God either.

In other words, belief is a decision on whether or not you choose to believe. God maybe the infallible all knowing Supreme Being that many choose to believe. Alternatively, he maybe the figment of the imagination that i choose to believe.

Either way, as long as people aren't imposing their will and beliefs on others based on this choice then good luck to them. Personally, if belief brings people happiness, then i wish them all the best.

thats the stand i appreciate, i also agree that the theists should have the same stand and not force anything although there should be healthy discussing with an open attitude to outcomes and conclusions rather than a set stand to prove the other wrong.

reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 06:07 AM by ttobban

I think to put any sort of percentage to any beliefs of one person or group is not rational to even express interest in. To worry what someone else thinks as proof of a God doesn't hint to anything of value.

Doesn't each of our beliefs come from deep within? And I'd imagine those thoughts and beliefs will decide each owns percentage to an existence of God. Self knowledge can only sway percentages one way or the other. Seems pretty simple to me... that if someone does not find enlightenment from some source then it would lead to a % of 0. If enlightenment is found and searched for further the percentages increase to a possibility of 100%.

To me, God is defined as a search for unknown... and to not stop striving for at least one percent more knowledge. I also feel that God is often times made to have an undeniable identity when there is a chance that the symmetry of anything and everything that is matter is more telling to these questions.

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