Did the CIA EVER fund bin laden?

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posted on Feb, 11 2013 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by RadicalRebel
 





Both Bin Laden and the CIA "held accounts in the Bank for Credit and Commerce International (BCCI)


Forgotten Coverage of Afghan 'Freedom Fighters' The villains of today's news were heroes in the '80s





"Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan."


Robin Cook, Foreign Secretary in the UK from 1997–2001, and Leader of the House of Commons and Lord President of the Council from 2001–2003

The struggle against terrorism cannot be won by military means

So yeah the answer to your question is yes.
edit on 11-2-2013 by Tuttle because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 11 2013 @ 08:52 PM
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Hmmmm...

Snopes is calling the Bin Laden / CIA connection "Hogwash."

I'd say that settles it... must be true.



posted on Feb, 11 2013 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide

To narrow it down, know that Al Qaeda translates as "The Database" and work from there.

~Heff


It is based on the arabic wortd 'qa idah' which means foundation or base. Nothing to do with a 'database'.

English words are not arabic words.

Like saying the word cell for a group of people, and then saying there is also the world cellphone, so they must be all phone users.


No. It is less an organization than an ideology. The Arabic word qaeda can be translated as a "base of operation" or "foundation," or alternatively as a "precept" or "method." Islamic militants always understood the term in the latter sense. In 1987, Abdullah Azzam, the leading ideologue for modern Sunni Muslim radical activists, called for al-qaeda al-sulbah (a vanguard of the strong). He envisaged men who, acting independently, would set an example for the rest of the Islamic world and thus galvanize the umma (global community of believers) against its oppressors. It was the FBI -- during its investigation of the 1998 U.S. Embassy bombings in East Africa -- which dubbed the loosely linked group of activists that Osama bin Laden and his aides had formed as "al Qaeda." This decision was partly due to institutional conservatism and partly because the FBI had to apply conventional antiterrorism laws to an adversary that was in no sense a traditional terrorist or criminal organization.

www.foreignpolicy.com...

It's tiring to keep reading people think that alqaeda is a figment of the cia, or made up, or simply a database... a very real ideology. a very real group today. and not your friends.
edit on 11-2-2013 by winofiend because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2013 @ 09:06 PM
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Thank you all for your input, already more than i had hoped for or keep up with.

Reading the comments on the yahoo article...hope more people are paying attention...



posted on Feb, 11 2013 @ 09:10 PM
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reply to post by winofiend
 

there are several sources that i have just found which refer to "the database" in reference to a US document listing the individuals who joined in pakistan and afghanistan...basically it seems as though we (the US) dubbed them this...

Another question that comes to mind is, why now? bin laden is dead, the war is supposedly almost over...is this just an attempt to smear the name of a possible presidential cadidate as stated in the article? Or something else?
edit on 11-2-2013 by RadicalRebel because: (no reason given)
edit on 11-2-2013 by RadicalRebel because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2013 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by RadicalRebel
reply to post by winofiend
 


If you would bother to inform yourself there are several sources that i have just found which refer to "the database" in reference to a US document listing the individuals who joined in pakistan and afghanistan...basically it seems as though we (the US) dubbed them this...


I'm not forcing an agenda as you are. I'm presenting facts.

If you don't wants facts, that's too bad. "The base" existed before the cia.


We have one religion, one God, one book, one prophet, one nation. Our book teaches us to be brothers of a faith. All the Muslims are brothers. The name "al Qaeda" was established a long time ago by mere chance. The late Abu Ebeida El-Banashiri established the training camps for our mujahedeen against Russia's terrorism. We used to call the training camp al Qaeda [meaning "the base" in English]. And the name stayed. We speak about the conscience of the nation; we are the sons of the nation. We brothers in Islam from the Middle East, Philippines, Malaysia, India, Pakistan and as far as Mauritania.


Interview with bin laden in 2002.

archives.cnn.com...
edit on 11-2-2013 by winofiend because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2013 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by winofiend
 





"The base" existed before the cia.


Pretty sure it didnt.

I'd like a source for this fact please.



posted on Feb, 11 2013 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by Tuttle
reply to post by winofiend
 





"The base" existed before the cia.


Pretty sure it didnt.

I'd like a source for this fact please.


Did you even read anything cited?

There's your source for facts.

the name existed before the cia or the fbi used it.



posted on Feb, 11 2013 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by winofiend
 



Osama bin Laden is no more a true representative of Islam than General Mladic, who commanded the Serbian forces, could be held up as an example of Christianity. After all, it is written in the Qur'an that we were made into different peoples not that we might despise each other, but that we might understand each other.

Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west.

Source


Robert Finlayson Cook (28 February 1946 – 6 August 2005) was a British Labour Party politician, who was the Member of Parliament (MP) for Livingston from 1983 until his death, and notably served in the Cabinet as Foreign Secretary from 1997 to 2001.
He studied at the University of Edinburgh before becoming a Member of Parliament for Edinburgh Central in 1974. In parliament he was noted for his debating ability which saw his rise through the political ranks and ultimately to the Cabinet.
He resigned from his positions as Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons on 17 March 2003 in protest against the invasion of Iraq. At the time of his death, he was President of the Foreign Policy Centre and a vice-president of the America All Party Parliamentary Group and the Global Security and Non-Proliferation All Party Parliamentary Group.

Source


First, there is the organisation itself. Strictly speaking, Al-Qa'eda should be referred to as Qa'edat Al-Jihad (the base for Jihad). This is the name the group assumed in April 2002, apparently as a result of the merger of the overseas branch of Egypt's Al-Jihad group, led by Ayman El-Zawahri, with the groups Bin Laden brought under his control after his return to Afghanistan in the mid 1990s. This coalescence was preceded by a grouping that brought together the two sides and other Islamist groups from Pakistan and Bangladesh. The coalition, declared on February 1998, was called the Islamic Front for Jihad against Jews and Crusaders. It was this group that is thought to have mounted the bombing attacks against the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in August 1998.

Source



posted on Feb, 11 2013 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by winofiend
 


I also made my comments prior to you adding any pertinent information, which i then respectfully redacted.

How is asking a question supporting an agend.
It would seem there is evidence to support both sides...good thing i chose this forum...
edit on 11-2-2013 by RadicalRebel because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2013 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by RadicalRebel
 


Bin Laden was not directly on the CIA payroll but since he was the Son of Wealthy Saudi's...and Bin Laden had Millions of his own money that he used some of the organize the Afghan resistance to the Soviet's...the CIA did use him to get the Weapons to the various Afghan resistance groups that Charlie Wilson had decided with the help of the Pakistani's....were VIABLE resistance fighters.

The mistake of this CIA Covert War...which really wasn't all that covert considering Charlie Wilson had gotten over 1 Billion Dollars per year in appropriations toward the end of the Soviet Invasion....was that the U.S. Congress would not appropriate a lousy $1 Million for the building of U.S. sponsered Afghan Scools to teach the children of Afghanistan reading and writting and Math as well as the History of how the United States and the CIA had supplied the weapons such as the Stinger Anti-Aircraft Sholder Fired Missiles which were responsible for downing the Soviet Hind Helecopters that were killing Afghans wholesale.

If that money was given by Congress...9/11 would probably never have happened or at the very least...Bin Laden...who was angry about U.S. Troops being stationed in Saudi Arabia which is home to Islams holiest of sites...would not have been able to use Afghanistan as a staging and training area.

Split Infinity



posted on Feb, 11 2013 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by RadicalRebel
 


here's a link that has a pretty good bit of info on what the cia did know about the taliban and other groups that fought against the russians. if you notice in some of the reports it mentions that one of the mullah's was related to bin laden. thr reports are from George Washington University, and is called " The National Security Archive" pretty interesting stuff. but it can get boring.

The Taliban Biography

there's no way if you've ever heard of charlie wilson and all he did, that we not should believe that they had no contact with bin laden, or knew of him. yes it;s said he wanted no help from the U.S.. but you can bet some of the weapons found there way into his hands. either directly or indirectly. we knew of him and funded him. it might have been through the taliban or isi but we contributed to him greatly.

there is another thread here on ats where i posted the info i'm still trying to find it. i'll post it as soon as i can find it. i don't remember the name of the thread.


ETA: i didn't find the thread but i did find what bin laden's relationship to mullah omar is, he was his father in law, or at least his brother in law.
it's in the sixteenth documents, from the site i linked above, on page two, the doc is a pdf and has eight pages.
it looks to be edit and if you look at the page number on the doc it says 26 but it is actuly page two of the pdf.



if you look at the bottom of the page you see that it says he has four wives. one of which is the daughter of usama bin laden. the first name is spelled different. his name is osama don't know if it is bin laden father or bin laden. that's why i said at least a brother in law. if i'm not mistaken bin means the son of, so not sure if they are talking about the bin laden, or his father becuase of the last name.

either way they new omar had contact with him, so how dumb do they think people are if they think people will think that he was not funded by the cia.
edit on 11-2-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)
edit on 11-2-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by winofiend
 





the name existed before the cia or the fbi used it.


Before they used it or before they existed?

Cause the CIA im sure came into existence sometime in the 40's after world war two, and im also pretty sure Al-Qaeda was not in existence then.



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 12:22 AM
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This is perhaps one of the more reliable, dated sources, on the information being discussed.
As well as to clarify some misconceptions in the time line of Taliban and Mujahid.



In the first years after the Reagan administration inherited the Carter program, the covert Afghan war "tended to be handled out of [CIA director William] Casey's back pocket," recalled Ronald Spiers, a former U.S. ambassador to Pakistan, the base of the Afghan rebels. Mainly from China's government, the CIA purchased assault rifles, grenade launchers, mines and SA-7 light antiaircraft weapons, and then arranged for shipment to Pakistan.... The amounts were significant-10,000 tons of arms and ammunition in 1983, according to [Pakistani General Mohammed] Yousaf-but a fraction of what they would be in just a few years.

Afghanistan, the CIA, bin Laden, and the Taliban by Phil Gasper International Socialist Review, November-December 2001


After DCI Bill passed, his personal library was donated to the Institute of World Politics, I have seen with my eyes, the boxes of info in the basement.

The link above also discusses the below info, which was kept in detail by DCI Bill;


One of the first non-Afghan volunteers to join the ranks of the mujahideen was Osama bin Laden, a civil engineer and businessman from a wealthy construction family in Saudi Arabia, with close ties to members of the Saudi royal family. Bin Laden recruited 4,000 volunteers from his own country and developed close relations with the most radical mujahideen leaders. He also worked closely with the CIA, raising money from private Saudi citizens. By 1984, he was running the Maktab al-Khidamar, an organization set up by the ISI to funnel "money, arms, and fighters from the outside world in the Afghan war."


Hope this helps.




posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 12:48 AM
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Might it be relevant to discuss other bin Laden family members and their connection to prominent US citizens and businesses? Especially certain members of a particular presidential family?

Also, Tim Osman. Was this really Osama bin Laden's alias for work with the CIA or other US government/military organizations?



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by PatriotGames2
 



Originally posted by PatriotGames2
Might it be relevant to discuss other bin Laden family members and their connection to prominent US citizens and businesses?


Not only, but highly appropriate.

There is a lot of information that has never been made public, let alone well known inside the inner circles.
Only allusions to known knowns and unknowns...




posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 01:11 AM
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Also the fact the vast majority of terrorism ever conducted on a global scale has essentialy originated from Pakistan, however predominately Saudi in recent times. Yet both countries seem to enjoy such a cosey relationship with America with regards to supporting there regional conflicts.

Weird that, best not to think about it lol.
edit on 13-2-2013 by Tuttle because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 07:21 AM
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Buying the opposite side is basic tactics. We know that Al Capone had his own man in the Police, that is a no-brainer. Soviets did not make that arrangement through their Afghan mission, and got burned.
Osama Bin Laden was top prospect; visible, western-knowledgeable and ambitious.



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by ADVISOR
reply to post by PatriotGames2
 



Originally posted by PatriotGames2
Might it be relevant to discuss other bin Laden family members and their connection to prominent US citizens and businesses?


Not only, but highly appropriate.

There is a lot of information that has never been made public, let alone well known inside the inner circles.
Only allusions to known knowns and unknowns...



As i look over all this material in this thread i cant help but think i asked the wrong question..
Though i have been unable to find that one link i was searching for, that would shed any doubt about the US ever giving funds to bin laden, all i have found is the exact opposite.

A concrete history of the bin laden family investing thier money in the US.

So...the question i am forced to ask now, out of logic alone, did the bin laden family pay the US to conduct the 9-11 attacks?

I kinda feel awful saying it but all the evidence i have read thus far makes that idea more plausable.
There is lots of evidence to suggest that could what happened in this single article alone...please read.

bush ties to bin laden haunt anniversary

I found an interesting tidbit while looking into the credibility of that articles author...
Cindy Rodriguez




O'Reilly would later list Rodriguez as one of many columnists he believes are influenced by George Soros and Peter Lewis in his book The Culture[8]

edit on 13-2-2013 by RadicalRebel because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2013 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by MrSpad

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
well, if he's a rich guy fighting the russians, isn't the question, "did the CIA ever sell bin laden weapons or training ?"


The answer to this would be no. The US sent its aid through Pakistan who was suppose to use for anti Soviet units they trusted. Of course aid was also coming from other Western nations, Arab states and China. Bin Laden was not fighting to Soviets his job was providing aid and arms from other Islamic sources. So no he would not have gotten aid from the US as he was also provinding aid to the mujahideen himself.


You are muddying the waters intentionally. Bin Laden was actively involved in the Afghan resistance to the soviet union. You have the secretary of state on video admitting that the U.S funded the Afghani mujahideen and provided them with weapons, training, and logistics.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink


Active in providing them arms and funding but, he was not out fighting. And yes the US funded the Mujahideen the though Pakistan. The Saudis provided aid through other sources. The Chinese through other sources. And othe Islamic groups through Bin Laden. The mujahideen was not a group, it is the name for the over all resistance to the Soviets made up of many groups, all with different supporters and agendas. That is why when the Soviets left all those groups started fighting each other. People seem to think in conflicts their are only two sides but, most of the time their are many sides that may stop fighting each other to face a common threat. Just like Syria. Many groups all getting aid from different sources that will end up taking each other on when Assad goes.





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