The Vanity of Enlightenment

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by Serdgiam

Originally posted by BlueMule
I think you mean "so-called "enlightened" persons".

Nope, oddly enough, I did in fact mean what I said.

Ah. Well when you call enlightenment so-called "enlightenment" in one post and enlightenment in another, it's hard to know what you really mean.

Hey! Now we are getting somewhere!

I will work on that in the future. Though, I see it as a paradox, so its hard for me to know what I really mean. Though, I know what it be. Decades ago, when I was in school, I told my teacher that unicorns exists. I said that if we can imagine it, then it most certainly exists on some level even it if is not material. It wont have meaning, other than what we ascribe to it, but that doesnt invalidate our opinions or beliefs on the matter either way. I was, of course, laughed at by the entire classroom and teachers alike. Though, I do still maintain that the bio-electrical signals, and the corresponding magnetic field, that arise when thinking of that fabled animal exist. And much in the same way that my loved ones lost will live on in my heart, a unicorn exists.

Little did I know that with a certain deformity, even humans can grow a horn (get your mind outta the gutter!). Being that it also happens with deer, etc. I found out that they actually do exist, they just dont have magical powers or the like.

Maybe there is too much vanity in your posts?

Alternatively, maybe there is not enough!

reply to post by backcase

Thank you for joining the party... and welcome to the outer rim of the thread.

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion


But.. If we blow too much smoke up peoples arses, we will get nothing more than a big rip!

Ahem..

Apologies OP. Borderline innappropriate. But if it brought a smile, then hey, its enlightening things up! Just dont use a flame..

Originally posted by backcase
recent posters have bombarded this thread with useless bickering.

How could one be enlightened when he just worried about what is or who is not and why. I have found these posts disgusting as it is so far from enlightening. This thread is a den of mockers who care more about justifying themselves than about the truth.

The bickering has been useful to me. And we only ever speak for ourselves (though many see it differently).

Honestly, its tough at best to truly understand where another is coming from. This can lead us into thinking that because of our foundation and past, the same exact things will apply to everyone else (see: vanity). Even when one of us says there are numerous different paths, etc. etc. we really are only aware of our own. There is a bit of self-deception in it, as we try to justify our own position using our own perspective. To alleviate such projection from weighing too heavily, some will recognize that there are many different paths but innately are not capable of truly understanding this.

We (as individual "I's/eyes") are only able to see things from our own perspective, but together, we make up a larger part of the whole. Together, even in bickering, we can see things from a different set of eyes, and in that there is not only value but beauty.

reply to post by BlueMule

Is it? Oh, how vain that you think you know where to find this so-called "enlightenment".

Case Closed!

You're the one who thinks he has found enlightenment. And your childish behavior in this thread just makes the whole thing look bad. I hate to say it, but I think LesMisanthrope has proven more by letting this discussion continue unabated than by any of his/her posts. The OP has outlined what to look for, and I see it all over this thread.

None of us are impressive. I'm not impressive because I don't want to be. I don't want to impress anyone. But all of you are puffing your chests out, defending yourselves every time someone has something to say because you are afraid of feeling or looking inadequate.

There's nothing enlightened about this discussion.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Wow!

reply to post by AfterInfinity


While generally in line with my perspective, I would change it as follows:

None of us are impressive. But all of us are puffing our chests out, defending ourselves every time someone has something to say because we are afraid of feeling or looking inadequate.

So where do we grow from here?

reply to post by Serdgiam


Learning to accept that our opinions aren't worth anything. They are worth as much as they mean, and chances are, they won't mean anything to the average person on the street or in the store. So they are essentially worthless outside of your own mind.

Stop acting as though your ideas and opinions hold weight with anyone but yourself, and that will be one more step towards pruning your vanity. This holds with myself as well, but I have taken steps throughout this entire thread to make it clear that my opinions are my own and that they may or may not hold true for anyone else. I have acknowledged it repeatedly. I don't see anyone else doing the same.

I am at least trying. What about the rest of you?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Impressive!

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
The OP has outlined what to look for, and I see it all over this thread.

What to look for?

What would that be?

Would that happen to be a stereotypical characteristic?

Is humility supposed to be a stereotypical characteristic of so-called "enlightened" people, and so if such a person displays vanity then they must not be as "enlightened" as they claim?

Is that how it is?

So an American underachieving couch-potato jerk could not possibly be enlightened, I guess. Because everyone just somehow knows that enlightenment is a matter of perfect virtue and flowery beliefs and sitting cross-legged and harsh asceticism and stuff?

And a robe?

And sandals?

And long hair?

And sunshine?

And lollipops?

And chanting OM?

Well AfterInfinity... I, an arrogant vain fully-human enlightened jerk, have got news for you. Enlightened people span a rather large spectrum. You shouldn't stereotype. No one likes being stereotyped.

You would know that, if you were enlightened. :p

How is a "Spiritual Person" Supposed to Act?

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

In Buddhism one is expected to attend to such matters and not to dally in personal indulgence and personal narcissism.

I suscribe to the idea that the spiritual journey is also a physical journey. There is nothing wrong with some personal indulgence or even narcissism, as long as you don't become fixated on such things. Knowing yourself is an absolute necessity to developing a higher understanding of the world, In My Experience.

and further;-
if you know yourself there is nothing else to know, due to there being nothing else.

reply to post by orangutang

and further;-
if you know yourself there is nothing else to know, due to there being nothing else.

I don't know if that's vanity, or solipsism... maybe you could be more specific and lead us not into assumption...

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
The OP has outlined what to look for, and I see it all over this thread.

What to look for?

What would that be?

Would that happen to be a stereotypical characteristic?

Is humility supposed to be a stereotypical characteristic of so-called "enlightened" people, and so if such a person displays vanity then they must not be as "enlightened" as they claim?

Is that how it is?

So an American underachieving couch-potato jerk could not possibly be enlightened, I guess. Because everyone just somehow knows that enlightenment is a matter of perfect virtue and flowery beliefs and sitting cross-legged and harsh asceticism and stuff?

And a robe?

And sandals?

And long hair?

And sunshine?

And lollipops?

And chanting OM?

Well AfterInfinity... I, an arrogant vain fully-human enlightened jerk, have got news for you. Enlightened people span a rather large spectrum. You shouldn't stereotype. No one likes being stereotyped.

You would know that, if you were enlightened. :p

How is a "Spiritual Person" Supposed to Act?

edit on 15-2-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

Extremely impressive and enlightened too.

reply to post by BlueMule

Is humility supposed to be a stereotypical characteristic of so-called "enlightened" people, and so if such a person displays vanity then they must not be as "enlightened" as they claim?

Is that how it is?

No stereotyping involved. Humility tends to counteract the vanity in us. If you choose not to practice humility, that speaks volumes.

Well AfterInfinity... I, an arrogant vain fully-human enlightened jerk, have got news for you. Enlightened people span a rather large spectrum. You shouldn't stereotype. No one likes being stereotyped.

Sounds very much like an enlightened person.

I have met people who might be considered enlightened. They would laugh at you, I am certain. Not out of scorn, but out of amusement. Like one might laugh at a child playing at being a teacher. They smile and nod along, entertained by the innocence of the facsimile.

You give yourself far too much credit. We all give ourselves too much credit, but that is what experience is for. It shows us our errors, our flaws, and that's how we reflect on the world. We see ourselves in the world, and as we begin to understand the reality of ourselves, so we understand the reality of the world. Because our view of the world is always affected by who we are.

I am not enlightened, but I like to think I am making progress. Perhaps you should think outside of yourself, so you aren't so tempted to spare your ego and your vanity. This isn't criticism, this is friendly advice. I hope you will consider it.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

There's nothing enlightened about this discussion.

Oh boy, you made my day again. Logic is not on your side. I hope you understand why this is so funny. Your "guardianship" of the term means that you actually know what it is ... Otherwise it's just smoke coming out of your derrière.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by BlueMule

 

Well AfterInfinity... I, an arrogant vain fully-human enlightened jerk, have got news for you. Enlightened people span a rather large spectrum. You shouldn't stereotype. No one likes being stereotyped.

Sounds very much like an enlightened person.

Well, I'm sorry if I don't live up to your stereotypical expectations.

Oh wait, I'm not sorry. That was sarcasm.

Oops! Enlightened people aren't supposed to use sarcasm, are they? Darn.

OMM-MMM-MMM

Does that sound more like an enlightened person?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity


There's nothing enlightened about this discussion.

edit on 15-2-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Exactly why I left, it turned into a pissing match between seemingly unenlightened individuals! That is not enlightened!

reply to post by BlueMule


Are you still claiming to be enlightened? I have already admitted I am not enlightened. I am working on it as a hobby. From my own experiences in the matter, you do not display enlightenment by any standards of any culture. And surely, these cultures, who have been studying it for far longer than your family has existed, would know more about it than you?

My opinion is beside the point. But theirs is not. And your posts do not reflect the essence of their beliefs and practices. This suggests something to me.

You are attacking me because I have dared to suggest you are not as wise as you claim to be. By this very response, some masters would consider my suggestion thoroughly vindicated. Those who are wise are not offended by lies.

Originally posted by 1nf1del

Originally posted by AfterInfinity


There's nothing enlightened about this discussion.

edit on 15-2-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Exactly why I left, it turned into a pissing match between seemingly unenlightened individuals! That is not enlightened!

But it is, within the exchange of banter lies many truths.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by BlueMule

 

Are you still claiming to be enlightened? I have already admitted I am not enlightened. I am working on it as a hobby.

Oh, well, aren't you virtuous. Maybe you're enlightened but too humble to admit it? Eh?

From my own experiences in the matter, you do not display enlightenment by any standards of any culture. And surely, these cultures, who have been studying it for far longer than your family has existed, would know more about it than you?

My opinion is beside the point. But theirs is not. And your posts do not reflect the essence of their beliefs and practices. This suggests something to me.

Beliefs and practices and cultural standards are not the essence of enlightenment, pal. In fact they can be a barrier. They were for the OP. And they seem to be for you too.

But hey, it's all good. Everything is as it should be.