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Paul's gospel must be accepted

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posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I would hate to call you a liar my friend... but if you truly believe you are without sin... That is between you and God... I'll say no more on this...

Your problem not mine...

And that passage in luke does not define Pauls version of Grace... though a reference might help if that's not what you're referring to

edit on 12-2-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
It is also essential to believe that Jesus the Christ came in the flesh. Otherwise, we fall prey to Gnosticism.


I suggest you don't know what the phrase means. This is a spiritual saying not a physical saying.


I suggest you don't know what the Gnostic doctrine of Doceticism means.


Gnostic doctrine of Doceticism. WOW now that one is strange. I didn't even realize that was a belief. I pretty much thought you believed in one of these only.

He was real but not who Christians think
He was the son of God but not God
He was God
He was a fairy tale.

Never knew I could believe that he came in spirit and was never crucified. That never crossed my mind until now.

Well I guess it’s a good idea to believe that he came in the flesh of Jesus Christ, but the message here is most certainly to believe that he is in your flesh so you know that through him you may become like him, free from sin.

Logic - The whole battle is sin verse righteousness. Evil verse Good. I think sin verse righteousness is a good way to look at life. Because when we walk in righteousness as do most little children, God walks with us. When we are in our sin we walk alone. When we repent we accept that love back into our hearts. The time to repent is now, let the love back in.

Jesus - Grace it was given to you by a promise two thousand years ago. The promise that you could die and be reborn with Christ in you. A new man ready to pursue a righteous life, to leave the life of sin behind you, to be healed by Christ and told to sin no more. Stop waiting for the death, it is the resurrection that you need to believe in. Resurrection of your spirit, die to sin and come back to the father.

You see what I am saying holds true to man's own logic. We forgive our children and accept them back into our arms when they return from their own sin. We believe fundamentally in forgiveness, maybe we are not born to fundamentally understand how to forgive like him but we do understand the basics. To forgive is always better, unless the crime is unforgivable. This is man's logic.

What I am saying does not defy man's logic if applied to a spiritual experience. You have to believe in the supernatural to experience the supernatural. And both God and Christ are supernatural. Meaning they are above natural explanation. However as I have demonstrated there is often a very natural connection to the supernatural.

We must be born again, but we must believe we can. We must come back onto his path, but we must believe that he is there waiting for us, to guide us and instuct us by his spirit that dwells in us.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by watchitburn
 


I was just messing with you. I am definitely not your judge.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Now you know. They believed He really wasn't here in the flesh, example He never left footprints in the sand.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I would hate to call you a liar my friend... but if you truly believe you are without sin... That is between you and God... I'll say no more on this...


Did I say I was without sin?



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I would hate to call you a liar my friend... but if you truly believe you are without sin... That is between you and God... I'll say no more on this...


Did I say I was without sin?


I was hoping not...



"Continue to live in sin" means to continually live a life a sin, a "free pass" as you will. And no I don't. Anyone who is born again doesn't desire to sin. A person who has repented has a complete change of mind about their sinful old life. What they used to see as fine they now hate and avoid.


IF that wasn't what you said... or perhaps meant...

Then back to my question...




posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I would hate to call you a liar my friend... but if you truly believe you are without sin... That is between you and God... I'll say no more on this...

Your problem not mine...

And that passage in luke does not define Pauls version of Grace... though a reference might help if that's not what you're referring to

edit on 12-2-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


We are most certainly not saying we are without sin. Because as you know by what you just said that would be blaspheme.

But those who live in their human nature actually have a desire at work in them that makes them go against their very own judgment, because in their human nature their desire is to lie, steal, fornicate.

Those who live in the spirit and walk with Christ no longer fight against sin as though it has control over them. We learn to do what Cain could not. We learn to master our sin, by allowing ourselves to be lost in Christ. So that the nature of Christ becomes our character.

So although my flesh still wants its satisfaction, proving to me that sin lives in me, I no longer have the desire to follow the sinful desires of my flesh.

Christ is the power of the Resurrection. The Resurrection of the spirit from the self imposed death we deserved while in our sin. The freedom from the chains that bound us to our hell, our righteous punishment handed down from God until we might repent, return to him and be healed. It is time to live a righteous life.

The promise is for all.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Saying I no longer live in a continual life of unrepentant sin isn't saying I never make mistakes sometimes.

There's a massive difference between the two.

One would be an example of your "free pass", the other would be a person who had repented.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


Saying I no longer live in a continual life of unrepentant sin isn't saying I never make mistakes sometimes.

There's a massive difference between the two.

One would be an example of your "free pass", the other would be a person who had repented.



So just as in Pauls case... One is free to murder rape and pillage... and as long as he eventually figures out what he was doing was wrong... and "repents".... He is saved...

That is the "grace" of God...



By the way, what gnostic text says he didn't have footprints... I've heard this about gnostic beliefs before and I've never found a reference... Not that im really searching for it... but im curious as to where it comes from
edit on 12-2-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


Saying I no longer live in a continual life of unrepentant sin isn't saying I never make mistakes sometimes.

There's a massive difference between the two.

One would be an example of your "free pass", the other would be a person who had repented.



So just as in Pauls case... One is free to murder rape and pillage... and as long as he eventually figures out what he was doing was wrong... and "repents".... He is saved...

That is the "grace" of God...



By the way, what gnostic text says he didn't have footprints... I've heard this about gnostic beliefs before and I've never found a reference... Not that im really searching for it... but im curious as to where it comes from
edit on 12-2-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


It's Doceticism. That He wasn't a man, He only appeared in Spirit form.

And what you mock is no different than the grace Christ gave to the thief on the cross.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


Saying I no longer live in a continual life of unrepentant sin isn't saying I never make mistakes sometimes.

There's a massive difference between the two.

One would be an example of your "free pass", the other would be a person who had repented.



So just as in Pauls case... One is free to murder rape and pillage... and as long as he eventually figures out what he was doing was wrong... and "repents".... He is saved...

That is the "grace" of God...



By the way, what gnostic text says he didn't have footprints... I've heard this about gnostic beliefs before and I've never found a reference... Not that im really searching for it... but im curious as to where it comes from
edit on 12-2-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


Paul was killing in the name of God. God knew Paul was defending the word of Moses out of love for God, not out of self righteous hate. God will love who he loves and harden who he hardens.

God is the one who knows the heart of the man so if Jesus came to him and revealed to him, a Pharisee who had memorized the law and was blameless, the passages in the law that referred to him, then his heart must have been for God. The OT tells you everything that Christ came to do and did. Once his eyes had been open to scripture, his Christ became clear to him.

He does not disagree with Christ.

Only the church and your interpretations of what he said disagree with Christ.

The true interpretation furthers the message of Christ and is very anti-religious, and pro people getting together as friends who love God, and give to the needy. This is the end of Paul's message about church. Paul did not say what the church accuses him of saying.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



It's Doceticism. That He wasn't a man, He only appeared in Spirit form.


you already said that...

What book or fragment did it come from?


And what you mock is no different than the grace Christ gave to the thief on the cross.




Can you imagine the power one might wield with this belief that murderers can be saved from consequence?

Ever think its possible Paul used this idea as a scapegoat for his own wrong doings?

edit on 12-2-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 



Paul was killing in the name of God.


Right... the OT God...



Not the God of Jesus

edit on 12-2-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



It's Doceticism. That He wasn't a man, He only appeared in Spirit form.


you already said that...

What book or fragment did it come from?


And what you mock is no different than the grace Christ gave to the thief on the cross.




Can you imagine the power one might yield with this belief that murderers can be saved from consequence?

Ever think its possible Paul used this idea as a scapegoat for his own wrong doings?



It's not a consistent theme throughout the entire Bible? Redemption?

What about Moses? David?

And I can try and research where that particular belief came from, it'll take some time, getting ready to head out on the road. For now see what the wiki entry for Doceticism has to say.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25
 



Paul was killing in the name of God.


Right... the OT God...



Not the God of Jesus

edit on 12-2-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


Please! Jesus affirmed the Torah and the prophets. That's the OT!



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 





First look up the definition of Grace...

Theres a reason why Jesus doesn't use it... the word is used to describe someone as elegant... Jesus can be described as Graceful, even full of Grace but that has to do with the ease that he went about his business, and the effortless way he answered every question his followers asked him.


I disagree.

John 1:14

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:17

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



It's not a consistent theme throughout the entire Bible? Redemption?


Blasphemy against the spirit is not forgiven... in this life or the next...




What about Moses? David?


please refer to the above statement



And I can try and research where that particular belief came from, it'll take some time, getting ready to head out on the road. For now see what the wiki entry for Doceticism has to say.


I already looked at it... and it didn't say much...

Im actually on my way to work too... And now im gonna be late...


Ttys my friend




posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Akragon
 





First look up the definition of Grace...

Theres a reason why Jesus doesn't use it... the word is used to describe someone as elegant... Jesus can be described as Graceful, even full of Grace but that has to do with the ease that he went about his business, and the effortless way he answered every question his followers asked him.


I disagree.

John 1:14

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:17

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.



That was John... Not Jesus...

Disagree all you want...




posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



It's Doceticism. That He wasn't a man, He only appeared in Spirit form.


you already said that...

What book or fragment did it come from?


And what you mock is no different than the grace Christ gave to the thief on the cross.




Can you imagine the power one might yield with this belief that murderers can be saved from consequence?

Ever think its possible Paul used this idea as a scapegoat for his own wrong doings?



No one has power but God. This is what Jesus is saying, no one escapes judgment. Jesus saves all that the father brings to him. Christians have taken these verses to mean something far inferior to what they really mean.

Christians think they are the only ones who have access to this salvation. The father brings anyone to Christ who seeks earnestly with his heart for the truth. When love becomes ones only addiction then Christ comes to them and the Holy Spirit guides them.

The problem is almost no one ever has found Christ this way, so we have the gospel in the bible that shows us a foundation to which we may become in union with him. If we follow this path with faith we will find him. God will love who he loves and harden who he hardens. God knows the heart of a man and will show himself to anyone whom he chooses.

Isn't it nice to know that God is in control of all things so we can see how meaningless judgment is. The OT is about faith. Those men believed that God dictated the seasons, they believed that God brought rain and drought as he saw fit, they believed that wars were decided by God not men. They had faith that God was always in control. He is still always in control, even if we don’t like it or agree with it.

We don't have to like it or agree with it. What we have to do is find love in all of it. That is our only command from Christ. Find love.



posted on Feb, 12 2013 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


You believe in resurrection unto death, meaning the perpetual state of birth and death.

I believe in resurrection unto life, meaning the perpetual state of being alive.






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