Anatomy of a Scam

reply to post by Crakeur


There is more special funds can't tell you more. Ats don't pick topics to stop

Originally posted by frenzy4444
reply to post by Crakeur

 

There is more special funds can't tell you more. Ats don't pick topics to stop

I think it is very responsible to not push a known scam on an unsuspecting group of people. You talk about "more special funds" please elaborate, so far this whole thing has been nothing but conjecture, slight of hand and a bit of wishful thinking.

reply to post by Crakeur


Thank you for putting a stop to this madness. Some of the legal documents these people have allegedly been filing are hilarious, yet all too many people here seem to think they are legitimate.

reply to post by fourthmeal


Your signature was removed because we don't allow free advertising without owner approval. It would have been removed if it was a link to a charity.

You never responded to my comments regarding your alien connection post or your personal involvement with this scam.

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by fourthmeal

 

Your signature was removed because we don't allow free advertising without owner approval. It would have been removed if it was a link to a charity.

You never responded to my comments regarding your alien connection post or your personal involvement with this scam.

I dunno if he really has to respond to the Alien thing, he linked off to a blog called American Kabuki, which had an interview with this Heather person, and it had one interesting line in it that *I* think sums up how ridiculous this all is:

Governments were formed, and an economic system was imported from the Orion system. They had done this on other worlds before.

So here we have one of the women that is supposedly a trustee of this One People's Trust claiming that there is some extraterrestrial banking game going on, where we are the pawns and collateral of said..

I guess it's like other alien related things we've seen over time, easy to blame that which cannot be confronted for the issue because of whatever "directives" they have about not interfering.

reply to post by vkey08


Well he doesn't HAVE to respond to the alien thing. No one needs feel compelled to respond to anything. But to be clear, the reference is more than just the link. There was a rather decisive post made here about the alien thing, directly from the member.

I certainly think it's appropriate to consider and question and request clarification about things like that when reviewing the material. How a member chooses to respond (or not) is up to them.

reply to post by vkey08


and the kabuki site, which is one of their stated mouthpieces, has a subsequent disclaimer that the alien connection came from an outside source. Big oops on their part

After having read this entire thread, I think the problem may be in theory versus reality.

In theory one can make claim that the US Government is a corporation (as with lobbyists etc., they seem to bow to corporate interests), yet in reality and on paper, they are not.

In theory one can possibly find justification for out-of-jurisdiction foreclosure, but in reality (until laws are changed internationally, federally and locally) it's a non-starter.

In theory one can speculate that we are the pawns of some maligned nefarious beings from another solar system whose sole purpose is the human experiment and how we handle finances; in reality well, does it seem real enough?


You get my point, that I see, from fourthmeal and the rest of the crew here, that there is a serious span between the understanding of theory VS reality.

I do believe it is a scam also, but with those words in my mouth, I also do believe that fourthmeal is being unfairly denigrated by a few here as he seems a decent enough guy who (perhaps) is just fed up with what he's seeing and wants some real change. And, let's face it, talk about Government conspiracy, how they suck, and how they are constantly at the corporate interests beck and call have been rampant on ATS for many years as has been supported by many here who are giving this guy a bit of a hard time.

Removing potentially fraudulent material is paramount here or ANYWHERE in my opinion, I see this case as no different...but perhaps a bit more compassion with respect to this guy might be in order too.

reply to post by alphabetaone


What could possibly be more respectful than trying to talk a friend out of a bad decision?

This is me when I sign up for the trust



I think the best way to put this as a hoax is exactly what was said

"US courts have no influence over foreign entities"

unless you know the aliens are using the US dollar

The discussion about the legalities has not led to any productive resolution, so perhaps another approach can shed the light of reason on this topic.

Let's suppose for a moment that TOPPT has merit and extrapolate from there. What do the proponents foresee happening?

Right now it is a conceptual exercise in futility, but if we apply it to the real world as to what may happen, it may flesh out the unreality of it all. So what could occur?

1) TOPPT gains momentum from the people of the world wanting to reclaim their properties from the "corporate law"
2) TOPPT is successful in "foreclosing" upon corporations and nations thus reclaiming all property and possessions for the people of the Trust
3) TOPPT now owns everything in material existence???
4) The people of the Trust can plant flowers wherever they want?
5) Etc, etc...

I mean, where is this going? Where can it possibly go but absolutely nowhere? It is unrealistic and utterly ridiculous to even consider.

What delusional minds lack the foresight to consider the absurd ramifications of the "success" of the notions of this "movement"? Who makes this stuff up without considering what type of societal, economic, and social structure would result?

It is so well-conceived that I think the new motto of TOPPT should be "I like flowers and free cookies and other stuff, too."

Those in favor of the Trust, please lay out the basic foresight of how this will impact the world on a day-to-day basis. How do you foresee the new system working? And please don't tell me it means you don't have to pay your mortgage anymore so now you can buy an XBox.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by alphabetaone

 

What could possibly be more respectful than trying to talk a friend out of a bad decision?

Well, I wasn't suggesting it was disrespectful, necessarily, simply that I think there is a huge misunderstanding by everyone.

But, I agree with your concept....however, my version of respect and compassion is something along the lines of "Honestly, fourthmeal, I think you're probably making a very poor decision here and while I don't agree with the premise of what you purport is going to save the world, I DO agree with your right to follow it through"....

What I DON'T find as compassionate is "My answer is better than your answer because my information is Government and yours is yahoo".... If you think about that, someone who already BELIEVES the Government is corrupt, will find case A information as equally as reliable or unreliable, such that it is, as is case B information....so instead passive guidance is more apropos in this case.....again, just my observation.

Frankly, the whole subject seems ridiculous and barely worthy of a thread, never mind a corporate decision....but that, is another story.

Originally posted by alphabetaone
...passive guidance is more apropos in this case.....again, just my observation.

Frankly, the whole subject seems ridiculous and barely worthy of a thread...

Get me the cervical collar, 'cause I just got whiplash.

reply to post by InTheFlesh1980


Good points.

I'm pretty sure the guys who keep the sewer systems running are not going to be interested in doing that after they become billionaires, they'd be looking at new sport fishermen yachts like anyone else would. I think this "new world" is going to be a little smelly.

The Utopian ideal always seems to leave out the dirty work, that part of reality living in a society requires that nobody really wants to deal with. Trash collectors make good money for a reason, it's a nasty job. If everybody is on an equal financial footing why would they bother doing it anymore?

From a positive perspective I can see a day when technology has advanced far enough that most, if not all, of the work that nobody really wants to do can be done by machinery, robotics, and AI, but even with that you've got to have technicians who are willing to keep the machines maintained and repair them when they have unexpected breakdowns. If everybody is loaded with dough who is going to give up their precious time for that? Who is going to volunteer for tech duty when they could be diving off the Great Barrier Reef?

Springer...

Not even addressing the obvious. If everyone alive were handed a ten ton block of gold? Gold would instantly become utterly valueless and we'd all still be just as wealthy, or not, as we currently are.

Behind the system of money there is always the fact that things have value because they are needed or wanted - not because they are universally accessible. This is why nobody has ever gotten rich selling pine cones.

reply to post by Springer


i've been following this whole thing for a little while to see how it plays out. The points you mention about who is going to do the dirty work has come up several times on blogs and in their radio shows. Their claim is that if everyone has what they need to survive and you no longer have to fight/work/get money (the point of all the gold for everyone was that if everyone has the same amount of gold everyone is equal and therefore money doesn't mean anything anymore) to provide what you need your time will be freed up to do what you want to do in life which will in turn give people more time on their hands while will in turn lead to people wanting to help better themselves and each other and then people will volunteer to step in/take turns doing the dirty jobs. Their whole thing is that its a paradigm shift in the way we think now to a new way of thinking and doing and being.

this part wasn't said directly by the OPPT people, just people that have been involved and following it, but one of the things mentioned is that if there is no longer the "cabal" in control all of the technologies that have been suppressed by them will be able to be released and will allow things to be developed that can do the dirty jobs for us so we don't need to anymore.

so anyway, as i said, just sitting in the background watching the whole thing but that was the explanation i've seen for those specific points anyway.

ETA: also there has been mention in this thread about the government being a corporation is false and that there are not corporate "strawman" entities created to represent us. if that is the case why is there an amendment being introduced by congressmen trying to get rid of them? www.abovetopsecret.com... or am i miss-reading one, the other, or both of these things?

Originally posted by blackangel13
or am i miss-reading one, the other, or both of these things?

Yes.

For some background, here's some good starter info with plenty of source material to review if you want.

Corporate Personhood

Citizen's United case

As for the government thing, there are corporations and there are corporations.

By definition, a corporation can be as simple as a group of people elected to govern a town. I'm sure you've seen signs at the outskirts of many towns with a designation showing they're "incorporated". That doesn't mean they sell stock and operate as a business. It means they act as a single entity to govern. I'm sure you've also heard of towns and communities that are "unincorporated". Those designations have nothing to do with a local, state, or federal governmental 'body' (corpus in Latin) operating as a business corporation.

It can be confusing. And nit-picky. And terms that sound identical but mean entirely different things depending upon context. And there are people who prey on that confusion along with others who out of their own confusion unintentionally mislead other people.

People make a living doing that. Go figure.

Why don't you guys make a good long list of the things we aren't allowed to discuss on this site so we don't suffer the indiscretions of independent thought and opinion... and then we can all line up for cookies and naptime like good little contributors. Just tell us what is real and what isn't, it's just too tough to think for ourselves without a mod here to guide us. What is the point of having a discussion forum, just make this place a blog.
That stench comming up from the ATS basement here lately is censorship.

reply to post by twitchy


I take it it you didn't actually read Crakeur's entire OP. You're forgiven.

Springer...

reply to post by Springer


I did, twice now.
Then I went on to read our somehow more acceptable 'reptilian shapeshifters on the television' and 'bigfoot stole my cookies' threads, thinking to myself all the while that the list of things we can't discuss here is growing daily and exponentially, the criteria for which lately blurs the lines between discretion and whimsical.