Muslim fanatics spouting on British TV: Call for terror, murder and the torture of gay people, page 5

reply to post by Mclaneinc

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On the topic of the porn...

It does seem, no matter where in the world you are and what religion you are, the more you try to suppress something, especially if it is something that is natural to humans, the more people will want it. In Islam, of course, we are told that pretty much anything fun and interesting is Haram, so I guess those suppressed urges have to come out somewhere...

Which, for comic relief, leads me onto one of favourite Southpark episodes, where Mrs Garrison is going over with the class why Islamic fundamentalism exists..

"Let's all look at why Muslims are upset. First of all, in the Muslim religion, you're not allowed to have what? Sex. Good. There's no sex until marriage in the Muslim world.

Now, this would be fine except that in the Muslim religion you also can't... Anybody?

Jack off. Okay, jacking it is strictly forbidden in the Muslim religion.

And what do we know about the places Muslims live? They live in? Good, sand.

Now put yourself in the shoes of a Muslim. It's Friday night, but you can't have sex, and you can't jack off. There's sand in your eyes and probably in the crack of your ass, and then some cartoon comes along from a country where people are getting laid, and mocks your prophet. Well, you know what? I'd be pretty pissed off too!"

reply to post by JiggyPotamus

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I've studied Christianity, Judaism, and Islam relatively extensively and there is a lot of information that most people do not seem to know.

Not just most, I'd say the vast majority have extremely limited knowledge of these religions, even those they allegedly follow.

What these extremists are doing and saying is not really in line with the teachings of their religion, and rather they are misconstruing them.

But doesn't that depend on which interpretation of either religion one believe's in?- extremists don't view themselves as extremists - and it seems that 'extremist' interpretations are becoming more popular, certainly within the Islamic religion.

Anyone ever wonder why Saladin did not kill any of the Christians after he sacked Jerusalem during the Crusades? That may have had more to do with his ethics than religion, but still, he practiced Islam and led an all Muslim army.

But on two other occassions Saladin did slaughter his prisoners - that was pretty much the norm of the day - using the morals and standards of today to judge the actions of yesteryear is a mistake many make.

Now with that said, there are quite a few reasons why I believe Islam to be an amalgamation of Judaism and Christianity,

And with more than a sprinkling of local paganism thrown in as well.

Anyway, there is evidence in Muhammed's own sayings and teachings that indicate his understanding of these other two religions he so admired was limited. I find it hard to believe that someone who is a prophet would not understand the teachings that their new religion is based on.

Mohammed had what can be at best described as a very basic and limited education and understanding of religion - he was petrified of his own 'visions' and at times questioned his own sanity and even thought that the 'visions' may have come from Satan.

.... he also thought Jesus was born to a virgin because of an actual physical act with a heavenly being.

Err.....so do some fundamental Christians - you know the type; those who believe the earth is only 6000 years old and dinosaur bones etc were put there by God to 'test' us for some unfathomable reason.

Anyway, Islam does not hold that Jesus is divine, and they say he was a prophet, sort of like the Jews.

Yes, Islam does hold that Jesus was a Prophet of God and as such is revered, but nothing like Jews - they believe he was nothing more than a nationalistic preacher of sorts who blasphemously believed he was The Son Of God.
Jews hold no reverence whatsoever for Jesus.

The major difference between Christianity and Islam is that Christianity completely rejects all of Mohammads teachings and don't believe he was a Prophet at all.

To be honest, the Virgin birth is more of an issue between the various Christian denominations.

Whilst it is true to say that all the Abrahamic religions are related to each other it is also just as true to say that there are many fundamental differences between Judaism, Christianity and Islam and the transitions were not smooth or natural progressions.
The emergence of both Christianity and Islam caused immense social upheaval within a relatively short time.

As far as I can tell the teachings of Mohammad seem very confusing and contradictory at times and seem particularly brutal and repressive in places, more akin to The Old Testament teachings than those of Jesus and The New Testament and also resemble the ramblings of an at times confused and tortured mind - but to be fair there are some incredibly understanding, concilliatory, tender and insightful parts of The Koran.

Sems to me that part of the problem lies in 'men' cherry picking sections and interpreting them in such a way as to further their own agenda's and to exploit and control other 'men' - pretty much the same as any religion.

Enough with the anti-muslim bashing. It is not worth it, nor is it worth bashing anyone else, playing into the hands of those whom want us to be divided and kill each other.

We mankind must NEVER use evil against evil, more so when only words are spoken. Calm down and find out who are those whom had spoken, regardless if it is over religion, politics or economics, and hold them ACCOUNTABLE. When we do that, we will realize that it is only a minority few extremists whom had spoken, to stir up hatred for us to kill one another.

The moment we use evil to fight against evil, led by the minority, the fence sitters will jump on both sides, and all hell break lose. Do calm down. We are living in an educated and awakened age. Search for the truth.

WIth regards to religion, we had all along been worshipping the same common Creator, who loved us all. The central tenets of religion - christianity, islam, judaism, buddhism,etc is all the same, teachings from our common Creator who is known by many names across geological barriers, cultures, time and space.

Even atheist - those whom reject the Almighty, had only been following the moral and ethical guidelines laid down by Him since our current civilisation began, espacially those atheists whom had hurt or harm no one, and have yet to know Him on a personal one to one basis, as what the true church and religion is.

It is only some of religious leaders and the insane from all sides, whom had failed themselves and mankind, that had resulted in the true message by our Creator not being passed down, by their greed, ignorance, lust for power that had misinterpretated central tenets for self gain.

We are all only humans, one race, with common aims in life for ourselves and our future generations. We do not hate or want to kill one another. It is only the few whom want us to annihilate one another that had been stirring, and still do, to dance to their tunes.

We must wake up, share, discuss honestly, sincerely before its too late.....

Originally posted by Mclaneinc
All this NOT unconnected, its coordinated at Mosques, places of learning and so on, the same places 7/11 was set up from.

You have Islamic relatives if I am not mistaken.

One mistake that many people make is to assume that Islam is much the same as Christianity.

They forget that people in Europe were still getting executed by Christians for blaspheming as recently as 1697.

Thomas Aikenheadwas a Scottish student from Edinburgh, prosecuted and executed at the age of 20 on a charge of blasphemy.

How is Blasphemy treated in the Islamic world today?

Typically imprisonment or death.

• Afghanistan
penalties up to execution by hanging

• Algeria
years of imprisonment and a fine

• Egypt
may be punished by the death penalty

• Indonesia
maximum of five years imprisonment

• Iran
Prison sentence or Fatwa seeking death

• Jordan
imprisonment (up to three years) and a fine

• Kuwait
punishable by death

• Pakistan
Punishable by death

• Saudi Arabia
penalties up to the death penalty for blasphemy

• Sudan
imprisonment and a fine

• United Arab Emirates
Imprisonment up to 10 years. Since 1993 that Sharia punishments may not be imposed on non-Muslims.

• Yemen
accused in Yemen is subject to Islamic law (Sharia). Sharia, according to some interpretations, prescribes death as the proper punishment for blasphemy

Islam and Blasphemy

At the least, someone who blasphemes is typically looking at a prison sentence in modern day Islamic countries. Often a death sentence.

Originally posted by Freeborn

Sems to me that part of the problem lies in 'men' cherry picking sections and interpreting them in such a way as to further their own agenda's and to exploit and control other 'men' - pretty much the same as any religion.

The problem with that interpretation is that Muhammad's messages became more and more violent as he grew more powerful.

For instance, the Meccan Koran, when Muhammad was weak has no Jihad passages.

The Medinan Koran, on the other hand, when Muhammad was a powerful warlord, consists of 24% Jihad passages.

Statistical Islam

Has anyone heard of the gay mosque that opened in Paris?

www.bbc.co.uk...

Wonder how that would go over with the Imam in Tehran?

reply to post by ollncasino

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The problem with that interpretation is that Muhammad's messages became more and more violent as he grew more powerful.

More powerul.......and more paranoid.

During the latter part of his life Mohammed surrounded himself with sycophants who stoked his barbarity and paranoia.

And ever since then countless Imam's and clerics etc have compounded the issue by furthering their own agenda's in order to maintain control over a largely uneducated and indoctrinated population.

reply to post by ollncasino

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Your post is getting rather boring now, I mean by looking at you're posting history son, a doggy seems to be on a mission to discredit Muhammad/Islam & Muslims in general & I'd say he's pretty manipulative and very conniving in my opinion.


What is the difference between YOU and those learner-ed men?

In the quotations below, Western writers have used the word Muhammadanism for Islam. The word Muhammadanism connotes worship of Muhammad, an absolutely unworthy statement for any learned man to use. Prophet Muhammad's mission was to propagate the worship of the One and Only God (in Arabic Allah), the Creator and Sustainer of the Universe. His mission was essentially the same as that of earlier Prophets of God. In the historical context, many such terminologies about Muhammad, Islam, and Muslims were borrowed from earlier European writings of the Eleventh to the Nineteenth century, a time when ignorance and prejudice prevailed. The quotations below attest to the facts.

Thomas Carlyle in 'Heroes and Hero Worship and the Heroic in History,' 1840

"The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man (Muhammad) are disgraceful to ourselves only."

"A silent great soul, one of that who cannot but be earnest. He was to kindle the world, the world’s Maker had ordered so."

Edward Gibbon and Simon Oakley in ‘History of the Saracen Empire,’ London, 1870

"The greatest success of Mohammad’s life was effected by sheer moral force."

“It is not the propagation but the permanency of his religion that deserves our wonder, the same pure and perfect impression which he engraved at Mecca and Medina is preserved after the revolutions of twelve centuries by the Indian, the African and the Turkish proselytes of the Koran....The Mahometans have uniformly withstood the temptation of reducing the object of their faith and devotion to a level with the senses and imagination of man. ‘I believe in One God and Mahomet the Apostle of God’ is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honors of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue, and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion.”

Continue

reply to post by ollncasino

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What do you expect to happen. Ofcourse the Brits are afraid of the mussies and they can say whatever they want. Thats ok because the UK will fall and become totally Muslim and then the brits will wonder what ever happened. This is what happens when you show your stiff upper lip. Shame.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
If you had studied his life OBJECTIVELY, you would have realized that he was no warmonger once he gained Arabia and the tribes loyalties.

Once Muhammad had conquered Arabia, he took the submission of the Arabian, Jewish and Christian tribes. On the positive side, after he conquered Mecca, he didn't force the citizens to convert to Islam, nor did he force conversions elsewhere.

Forced conversions have rarely been an aspect of Islam. Interestingly, nor did Christians force Muslims to convert during the crusades.

On the other hand, the tribute he extracted from his conquered, non Muslim, subjects could be very heavy.

For instance, in 628 Muhammad and his army of 2,000 attacked a Jewish tribe in Khaibar. After the Jews surrendered Muhammad demanded an annual tribute of half of their produce, while the land itself became part of the Muslims state.

Battle of Khaybar

In the aftermath of the battle, the Banu Nadir tribe were not so fortunate apparently. They were given no quarter and the females were divided between Muhammad and his men.

Originally posted by ollncasino
.
On the other hand, the tribute he extracted from his conquered, non Muslim, subjects could be very heavy.

For instance, in 628 Muhammad and his army of 2,000 attacked a Jewish tribe in Khaibar. After the Jews surrendered Muhammad demanded an annual tribute of half of their produce, while the land itself became part of the Muslims state.

Battle of Khaybar

In the aftermath of the battle, the Banu Nadir tribe were not so fortunate apparently. They were given no quarter and the females were divided between Muhammad and his men.

edit on 13-2-2013 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

If you had studied history indepth, you would have realize that the wars were tribal in nature, and some of the jewish migrants were not prepared to submit to this new upstart mortal professing a religion that resembles theirs in many aspect.

Thus those few tribes not only revolted against the prophet, they even betrayed him and his troops to the pagan barbaric arabs whom were fighting with each other, and thus the consequences they had to face with betrayal, similar with many other nations' practice of that era, even today.

However, those other jewish tribes whom had supported the prophet, were not molested nor had their lands taken away from them. They and everyone else children of the book had to pay a tax to the conquerors if they do not wish to convert to Islam, then the ruling religion of the hard fought land, so as to prevent any of the barbaric pagan arab coverts from backsliding. It was a time of nation building.

Many would call this as apologist, but the fact remains that it is difficult, if totally unwise to judge the past under today's peace and progressive environment in comfort under our airconditioners or heaters, for in the barbaric ancient days, it was absolutely a different world.

Prophet Muhammad had said during his last sermon that perhaps one day, the latter generations would understand what had actually transpired during his time. Today, we are that generation, and must seach for the truths, share and discuss, not subjective misinterpretations from supposed leaders ever again, either for or against Islam.

Islam was never meant as a tyranny, but a democracy whereby national decisions would be made by the community, and not the words of one or cronies. He left no heir or apppointed anyone even though he all the time to do so. But the arab world then was not ready for such enlightened concepts, reverted to tyranny and thus the tragedies we saw and see till today. The time for evolution has come.

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