Paul: Rome's version of the Trojan Horse

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Paganism is the Mystery School. This IS the partial mystery mentioned by Enoch. The Bible is the thread of truth revealing this mystery. Yes, the symbols must be the same.

So paganism is the mystery school and IS the partial mystery that the bible reveals. "This" clearly refers to the pagan mystery school.

If pagan mysteries are revealed by the bible, then how is it not the enemy of Christ?

Or are you saying the bible is a tool to reveal these lies paganism created? If so, then why are these lies incorporated into the birth of Jesus and his miracles?

I'll say it again so you won't overlook it: If the bible teaches/reveals pagan mysteries, and if pagan mysteries are the enemy of Christ, then how is the bible not the enemy of Christ?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

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How is the bible not the enemy of Christ if it teaches the Pagan Mysteries? You're running yourself in circles.

The Pagan Mysteries are the worthless mystery that was partially taught to them before they (Fallen Angels) fell from heaven. Genesis 6 shows this with the beings that intermarried the daughters of men. Enoch also mentions this and calls them the watchers. Jude 1 also recaps Enoch on the same Angels that did not keep their first estate. That partial mystery was taught to mankind and a religion grew up around this called the Mysteries.

At this same time, Enoch had passed the true mystery to Noah, who then passed it on for Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses and so on. The keys to the mystery were translated by Joseph and then taught to Moses later before departing for Israel. Before Abraham, Nimrod was the thread of Paganism that sprouted from Cain. From Moses, we get the Torah (Mystery locked in symbol) and the unwritten Torah (Mouth to Ear only), which is the key to the Torah.

There are two diverging paths. God said, "Jacob have I loved (Farmer / Giving) and Esau have I hated (Hunter / Taking). The mark of the one on the wrong side of truth (Left) takes (LIBARAL). The one that gives is on the right side of truth (Right) Conservative. Today, we mirror this (Right/Left), yet the original ideology has been lost.

You are saying that their is one mystery. You are correct. There is one mystery and two sides to the same truth. One is mirrored and the other is the original. The mirrored version is the worthless version stated by Enoch.

16.3 "You were in Heaven but its secrets had not yet been revealed to you;
and a worthless mystery you knew. This you made known to women, in
the hardness of your hearts. And through this mystery the women and the
men cause evil to increase on the Earth."
16.4 Say to them therefore: "You will not have peace."

You can refuse this as true, but please do not try and restate what I say with your own pretext. People will see right through this when they read these threads. You are twisting what I say into your own version by restating what I am saying with your own pretext. I have been very clear. Please try to state your own version and keep mine as stated.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I'm using your own pretext though! Your original pretext was that if Paul were the enemy of Christ he would have taught the pagan mysteries. When I pointed out that these pagan mysteries were all throughout the bible, you claimed that these mysteries were essential to it. How does this make sense? You are the one twisting meanings to fit your pretext, not me.

Again, if pagan mysteries are bad, then how is the bible teaching them good? You're using doublethink again...


Again, about the Enoch verse speaking of worthless meanings. If worthless mysteries cause evil to grow and the world to not have peace, then why, on a world where the "true" mystery is taught (through Paul and Christianity), has evil risen and the world not had peace?

Since we don't have peace and evil has grown, wouldn't that mean we are being taught these "worthless mysteries"? Mainly through Christianity and the bible, since they are the most popular.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I'm using your own pretext though! Your original pretext was that if Paul were the enemy of Christ he would have taught the pagan mysteries. When I pointed out that these pagan mysteries were all throughout the bible, you claimed that these mysteries were essential to it.

Again, if pagan mysteries are bad, then how is the bible teaching them good? You're using doublethink again...

As I stated, he didn't. IF defines a parameter that is then defined by then. It is not a presupposition. You really need to study what I said after this. I then went on to define Paul as a reflection of the true mystery. If he was an enemy, then he would teach the worthless mystery. He did no such thing. You have trouble with deductive reasoning and this will show up in your inattention to detail.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I'm using your own pretext though! Your original pretext was that if Paul were the enemy of Christ he would have taught the pagan mysteries. When I pointed out that these pagan mysteries were all throughout the bible, you claimed that these mysteries were essential to it. How does this make sense? You are the one twisting meanings to fit your pretext, not me.

Again, if pagan mysteries are bad, then how is the bible teaching them good? You're using doublethink again...

edit on 17-2-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

I might suggest this website as a primer for your debate with topics such as this. Many years ago, this type of study helped me greatly

One assumption implicit in the art of rhetoric is that people--even intelligent people--can disagree with each other. Sometimes they disagree with each other about deeply held beliefs. When such disagreements become pronounced, there are two typical results--either they begin to fight, or they engage in debate. The choice is up to every country and every citizen--do we solve our problems by using a bullet or by engaging in rational discourse? Mild ethos or a military invasion? Pathos or plastique? Rhetoric removes disagreement from the arena of violence and turns it into debate--a healthy and necessary step in any democracy. For any headway to occur in a debate, wise participants should begin through figuring out what assumptions drive each group. Usually, when two groups disagree, it is because they do not share certain assumptions. The rhetor must assess her audience and then figure out what assumptions operate in her own argument and then what assumptions operate in the arguments made by others.

. LINK

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I'm using your own pretext though! Your original pretext was that if Paul were the enemy of Christ he would have taught the pagan mysteries. When I pointed out that these pagan mysteries were all throughout the bible, you claimed that these mysteries were essential to it. How does this make sense? You are the one twisting meanings to fit your pretext, not me.

Again, if pagan mysteries are bad, then how is the bible teaching them good? You're using doublethink again...

edit on 17-2-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Let's try this with a different method. Do you know the difference between truth and counterfeit truth? Can one look like the other? Is is possible, in your mind, that the Mysteries I refer to are true, yet a counterfeit version exists called Mystery School Paganism? Would it then be reasonable to name one the TRUE Mystery and the other the Pagan copy? Are both groups studying the same topic? Yes, yet only one holds the key to unlock the truth.

If a history teacher, versed in historical context, taught a class, would his students learn a better version than someone who came across a newspaper from the same era? Could a person who lived through this history teach better than either of the other two?

Which of the three is Paul? He is the history teacher. Who is Enoch? The on living through the history. Who is Jesus in relation? The very topic we discuss. The mystery is Christ. Paul states the true mystery. Pagans worship other Gods and fail to see the true mystery. It's a worthless version. Paul showed us the true mystery held from the beginning. Ephesians unravels the mystery if you have eyes to see and ears to hear.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Tell me, if the biggest religion in the world doesn't teach this "worthless mystery" then why are we suffering the same effects as a place that did? We have no peace just like a world with the "worthless mystery" would. The evil has grown over the centuries, just as a world who is taught the "worthless mystery". It's pretty safe to assume since we suffer the same effects as the "worthless" worlds, that we ARE one of them. The biggest religion in the world is Christianity, meaning they are a main source of these bad effects.

Are you really this blind to it?

So basically Paul is good because he doesn't teach pagan mysteries, but when the same logic is applied to the bible as a whole, your position switches, saying these bad teachings that Paul didn't teach are essential to reveal the good in the bible. How do bad teachings reveal good things?

As I said, you're running yourself in circles without even realizing it.

I'll ask a simple question: are the pagan mysteries good or bad?

reply to post by EnochWasRight


You believe the counterfeit version, the pagan version. Why does the bible contain so many pagan themes if it's not the pagan version? If you think the pagan version is the wrong version then why do you think a book rife with pagan themes is the real one?

Enoch was talking about Earth when he was talking about the worthless mystery, otherwise he wouldn't have named it specifically.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Tell me, if the biggest religion in the world doesn't teach this "worthless mystery" then why are we suffering the same effects as a place that did? We have no peace just like a world with the "worthless mystery" would. The evil has grown over the centuries, just as a world who is taught the "worthless mystery"?

Are you really this blind to it?

So basically Paul is good because he doesn't teach pagan mysteries, but when the same logic is applied to the bible as a whole, your position switches, saying these bad teachings that Paul didn't teach are essential to reveal the good in the bible. How do bad teachings reveal good things?

As I said, you're running yourself in circles without even realizing it.

I'll ask a simple question: are the pagan mysteries good or bad?

You are nearly there. If you understand what I have outlined so far, then you now call Peter what he is. Peter is Rome, the worthless mystery. The Roman Catholics are Mystery Babylon, along with the Builders and the Moneychangers. Jesus knew these three groups would corrupt the true mystery. Paul states this as well and warns us in many places. Paul and Christ were on the same wavelength. As in the first century, Satan is still being outwitted.

Now that we are at the next event horizon, you are seeing Christ return to the temple.

Global Meltdown

If you read the thread above, I outline how the financial tables have been turned and the peacemakers have no rest. They will have NO peace.

Meanwhile, the true church slips down the narrow path between Exoteric and Esoteric. It's a narrow path.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


So you think that "no peace" has yet to start? What do you call the countless wars throughout history? Do you call that peace?

If the Catholic Church is this worthless mystery, then why would they incorporate Paul's letters (to the tee) into the bible? If they were trying to spread the worthless mystery, then why do they follow Paul's teachings so closely? Please tell me you get it, I'm getting tired of having to repeat myself, especially on something as simple as this.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

You believe the counterfeit version, the pagan version. Why does the bible contain so many pagan themes if it's not the pagan version? If you think the pagan version is the wrong version then why do you think a book rife with pagan themes is the real one?

Enoch was talking about Earth when he was talking about the worthless mystery, otherwise he wouldn't have named it specifically.

Good. Now you are calling it like you see it. You state that the Bible holds the counterfeit version. You think Paul is in league with Satan. You are asking questions I have previously answered and I will redirect you to those previous posts. Enoch was speaking of what the Watchers learned while in Heaven when the gates were opened to them. Before proceeding, you should study the book of Enoch, Jasher, Jude, Jubilees and then return to the letters of Paul. Also, you need the seven rules of Hillel.

Seven Rules

When Paul speaks of rightly dividing truth, he is referring to how scripture is written by scribes. It must agree with the Torah. This is one of the leading reasons we can trust Paul as he rightly divides truth by context and association with the true mystery. As any Hebrew will tell you, the true word is locked in symbol and linguistics as the root morphology branches.

Study what I suggest and your opinions may change. If not, we simply disagree for now.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Lol, you JUST figured out that I believe the bible contains the counterfeit version and that Paul was Satan? You must not pay attention very closely because I have made those two things VERY clear in the OP. You are being very dense right now.

You still haven't answered my question. If pagan mysteries are bad, then how is the bible teaching them a good thing?

If Catholicism is the worthless mystery, then why were they the first ones to adhere to Paul's teachings?

If the worthless mystery (Catholicism) aligned with Paul, calling every word of his god-breathed, and who haven't deviated from his teachings for 2,000 years, then how is Paul not an integral part in this worthless mystery that they are trying to spread?

Catholicisms entire doctrine revolves around the teachings of Paul! Geez dude, it shouldn't take this long for you to see it.


What is the worthless mystery in your opinion? What part of Catholicisms doctrine do you consider a part of this worthless mystery if not Paul?


If Peter is the worthless mystery, then why does he agree with everything Paul says?

Why do you assume Peter is Rome when Paul was the Roman?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

So you think that "no peace" has yet to start? What do you call the countless wars throughout history? Do you call that peace?

If the Catholic Church is this worthless mystery, then why would they incorporate Paul's letters (to the tee) into the bible? If they were trying to spread the worthless mystery, then why do they follow Paul's teachings so closely? Please tell me you get it, I'm getting tired of having to repeat myself, especially on something as simple as this.

edit on 17-2-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Do you know why the Bible is on the table of the Builders (Masons) Lodges? They are aware the mystery is there. Like the Church, they are blinded to the central core of what it reveals until the veil is removed. So am I and so are you. Until it is time, we are under faith and the veil is simply torn. Before the veil was torn, we were under the law. Many are under the law still if they have no faith. How do we know this?

Galatians 3

Children of God

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

These are the words of Paul. Now, let me give you the words of Anti-Paul.

Book of the Law - A Crowley

Compare their words. Who is the Anti-Christ? Paul? Hardly.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


You are still ignoring my questions.

What part of Catholicisms doctrine do you believe is the worthless mystery? Specifics please.

If Catholicism adheres to every word Paul wrote, then how is Paul not part of this worthless mystery that they are supposedly trying to promote?

Why do you assume Peter is Rome when Paul was the Roman citizen? If Peter is the worthless mystery, then why does he agree with everything Paul wrote?

Please stop ignoring the questions, I'd really like to see your answers.

Also, I have lifted the veil, you have not. The veil is Paul and his dogma. When you ignore his words and listen to Jesus, the real truth comes through.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If pagan mysteries are bad, then how is the bible teaching them a good thing?

Again, the true Mysteries and the Pagan version are two different things. Originally, the true Mystery was held by the Priests and revealed to the students. This was before the flood. Enoch was the first teacher after Adam of this process. Enoch was revealing them to his sons and to the groups of leaders around the first area of civilization. Again, read the book of Enoch.

You are dancing around what you know I am saying. This is not a good way to build ground for your argument. When a higher truth is seen, the one that deceives to make his point takes the lower ground.

The books of Moses hold the revealed mystery in symbol. Paul rightly divides what Christ revealed against that first revelation. They agree.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

So you think that "no peace" has yet to start? What do you call the countless wars throughout history? Do you call that peace?

If the Catholic Church is this worthless mystery, then why would they incorporate Paul's letters (to the tee) into the bible? If they were trying to spread the worthless mystery, then why do they follow Paul's teachings so closely? Please tell me you get it, I'm getting tired of having to repeat myself, especially on something as simple as this.

edit on 17-2-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Who do you think Christ came to make a footstool? The watchers were given 70 generations locked in darkness before their judgment. The long count calendars of the Mayans were keeping track of this. A generation is the precession of the Earth (29520) divided by 360. That equals 72. 72 X 70 is the longcount years waiting for judgment. Since then, they have seduced mankind.

Book of Jubilees

26 He destroyed everything. 'And we were left, I and you, my sons, and everything that entered with us into
the ark, and behold I see your works before me that ye do not walk in righteousness: for in the path of
destruction ye have begun to walk, and ye are parting one from another, and are envious one of another, and
(so it comes) that ye are not in harmony, my sons, each with his brother.
27 For I see, and behold the demons have begun (their) seductions against you and against your children and
now I fear on your behalf, that after my death ye will shed the blood of men upon the earth,
28 and that ye, too, will be destroyed from the face of the earth. For whoso sheddeth man's blood, and whoso
eateth the blood of any flesh, shall all be destroyed from the earth.

Noah steps off the Arc and tells his sons this. What he tells them that the demons would start seducing them again. We follow this to Nimrod one one side and Abraham on the other.

If you wish to deny this, then use something besides your own words.

Again, Paul fills us in on these topics.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


You ignored the rest of my questions.... again.

If Catholicism is the worthless mystery, and since Catholicism adheres to Paul's words to the tee, then how is Paul not part of this worthless mystery?

What part of Catholicism is "worthless"?

You are the one dancing around what I am saying, hence you avoiding the questions. I know what you are saying, but I disagree for the simple fact that you are contradicting yourself.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

What part of Catholicisms doctrine do you believe is the worthless mystery? Specifics please.

Indulgences are a good example of a misuse of the scriptures. Many people have tried to make the case that the RCC and Rome changed the scriptures. This is not the case. Careful examinations of Dead Sea Scrolls, recent finds in Egypt and many other sources shows that the early Church fathers were true to their faith. The leaders were not so true. Even so, the scriptures were preserved. They were simply misused. Because of this, they lost control as the English translations made their way to the new world with the advent of the printing press, the very devise that Luther used to write his 95 thesis. The reformation was a step in the right direction, yet our own theology today is not reflective of what the scriptures decode under the hood.

Find Easter, Christmas or any other holiday in the Bible. I dare you.

Just because the RCC has been on the left side of truth does not mean the individual reading the book is not given revelation from the Holy Spirit as they read.

I could go on with pages, but the central way to know them by their fruit is to see this: Are they taking or giving? That's it. You can rightly divide them by their fruit. The Bible is the same. It is a mirror that reveals us. Light can only reveal what it hits.

The true mystery is there, waiting for those who have eyes to see. No religion or church is necessary to be in Christ. That church is not the one in Rome, although many of its members are part of Christ.

What did Paul tell the Church? How did he describe the relation to truth. Not the way RCC tells it.

1 Corinthians 10

14 Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. 15 I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

Exoteric deification of Christ is idol worship. Being served rather than serving is idol worship, only the idol is our own self. Being part of the loaf requires the name. The name is the character. Like I stated, that name is giving rather than taking.

Esoteric spiritualism is the same extreme, only on the other side of the narrow way.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

You ignored the rest of my questions.... again.

If Catholicism is the worthless mystery, and since Catholicism adheres to Paul's words to the tee, then how is Paul not part of this worthless mystery?

What part of Catholicism is "worthless"?

You are the one dancing around what I am saying, hence you avoiding the questions. I know what you are saying, but I disagree for the simple fact that you are contradicting yourself.

Paul lived many years before the RCC. They (Peter) took this and abused it to serve the priests rather than serving the people with the truth. Jesus knew this would happen and is why he told Peter what he did in John 21. Read my threads and I outline this.

You are fixated on the Mystery Babylon of Satan and wondering why God allows his Mystery to be taken by Satan. Again, light reveals what it hits. This is a trial against the Watchers and fallen beings where are among us. They are our leaders.

The Bible is used falsely. True. What it holds it not false. Also true. Are you surprised the enemies of God are outwitted by God at every turn?

Satan mirrors God at every turn. Did you read this? Eyes Wide Open

Essentially, you are saying that you do not believe the Bible is true. Is this correct?

I believe it is true. End of story. We disagree I suppose. I will continue to take you by the collar and drag you around to the reason why I believe if you want. If you want that, be open to seeing that I have the higher ground. I am on the right side of truth.

I'm also a sinner, so you and I are alike in this.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


You assume you are on the higher ground, but you're not. Your contradictions prove this.

You say pagan mysteries are bad, yet you hold onto a book which teaches them. You say Catholicism perverts Paul's words when they hold the same opinion and interpretation on them as you. You say Peter is Rome when Paul was the Roman. You say Peter is part of this worthless mystery yet neglect to remember that he approves of Paul's words. You say Peter was part of this group that distorted the truth, yet you forget he founded the church along with Paul and that his words were included in the bible, which you hold to be infallible. Where does it end with you?

How is Catholicism using Paul's words for different purposes when they follow the guidelines he set up to the tee? What makes you think Catholicism didn't build upon what Paul started?