Our sin debt has been settled

Originally posted by Wonders
Jesus is not the only person alive today who has been resurected from the dead. Jesus is the resurrection and the life.

And we are his life today, in whom Christ grows and matures. It's a partnership with God, and yes, He is the first/last cause but according to his love that he freely extends to us, the Alpha and Omega as you say.

If we even begun to understand this unfathomable fact, that God wants to lay this foundation in us and through us according to his loving purpose, then so much would change in a heartbeat.

So the more re receive, the more Christ we take into our hearts and minds, the more we mature in Christ, or grow in Christ, unto the very stature of Christ.

It's a work that we must allow God to perform in us, not an effort just to be good on our part, but real goodness and love, of the type capable of overcoming sin and sorrow.

Without the reception of Christ's love, we don't have it in us to change to the degree that has been made possible.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by Wonders
Jesus is not the only person alive today who has been resurected from the dead. Jesus is the resurrection and the life.

And we are his life today, in whom Christ grows and matures. It's a partnership with God, and yes, He is the first/last cause but according to his love that he freely extends to us, the Alpha and Omega as you say.

If we even begun to understand this unfathomable fact, that God wants to lay this foundation in us and through us according to his loving purpose, then so much would change in a heartbeat.

So the more re receive, the more Christ we take into our hearts and minds, the more we mature in Christ, or grow in Christ, unto the very stature of Christ.

It's a work that we must allow God to perform in us, not an effort just to be good on our part, but real goodness and love, of the type capable of overcoming sin and sorrow.

Without the reception of Christ's love, we don't have it in us to change to the degree that has been made possible.

I have to say, I don't trust you.
God wants us to build hour house on the foundation, and yes, to build takes effort on our part.

Luke 13:24 "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

reply to post by Wonders


Everything he says is true. You have 3 witnesses, the bible, New Age, and Me. We all agree this spiritual state of freedom is available to all. You must believe that you can indeed be freed from sin in a way that is probably indescribable to the one who has not felt it. It is very much like one man dying and a much more powerful, but humble man rising.

Believe the testimony of 3 witnesses my brother. What are we saying that is impossible? The bible actually works and if you follow it you will be changed. The bible works, or actually it is the spirit at work in us that does most of the work.

reply to post by sacgamer25


I
don't
trust
you
either.

reply to post by Wonders

Will you still be our friend and brother in Christ?

What do you think we're talking about a permissive framework to sin? That's funny, because it's absurd and doesn't make any sense.

Either the work of Christ is of value and therefore contains the whole treasure, or it is not.

And as we open up the gift we discover that it's our true and our own inner child restored, along with the growing and maturing Christ within.

We're like a nut that has to crack to allow the spirit to inform us and uplift us with hope for something better capable of motivating and inspiring us to authentic creative action worthy of who we're discovering ourselves to be as children of a loving God and co-inheritors with Christ of the riches of the treasure of heaven where the treasure is his love.

Our work therefore isn't as much to try to be good or even to be good not not to not be bad if you know what I mean, but to RECEIVE what God is and has really offered us as the free gift of eternal life.

Small starts, and we're a work in progress, but the energy by which we toil is that of Christ himself according to the promise of the resurrection, which is the new life and the new creation.

Of course we too are doing our work to increasingly try to walk the walk instead of just talk the talk, but the talk and the agreement has to come first.

In a domain of limitless love and creativity, where is the urge to sin either against ourselves, our neighbor or God?

Therefore we must move into that and allow it to move into us and work itself out through our ongoing present moment experience which is who we really are and are becoming with Christ himself as the perfect model and eventual destination.

We cannot begin the work however unless we have measured the cost of discipleship, which may require giving up not just some things but everything we used to cling to, which is the cause of sin, those attachments and pre-occupations.

The motive force is the love of Christ, by which we are transformed in whatever way however big or small and however fast or slowly.

And while spiritual perfection may be the goal, spiritual progress is what we claim, once having first received the free gift which is what makes all change and transformation possible, yes as a death and resurrection principal and new foundation in Christ.

reply to post by Wonders


We are not asking for you to trust us but to trust the scripture. Not what you have been told scripture says but what it actually says. The words are far more plain and simple than we have been told. Trust the scripture, look through our posts where we have provided scripture and ask yourself do we disagree with Christ or with what you believe?

reply to post by newnature


lets know Paul
Galatians:

1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God
the Father, who raised him from the
dead

2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia: 3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus
Christ, 4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil
world, according to the will of God and
our Father: 5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace
of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would
pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto
you than that which we have
preached unto you, let him be
accursed.

paul is criticising other 'real' apostles as they taught the galatians something different than paul wanted, so he rubukes them, bullies them by making them feel guilty, who does that?

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel
unto you than that ye have received,
let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet
pleased men, I should not be the
servant of Christ. 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is
not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of
Jesus Christ.

cursing the apostles now and claiming authority by using Christ? Like Christ can come to deny him.

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's
womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen;
immediately I conferred not with flesh
and blood: 17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I
went into Arabia, and returned again
unto Damascus. 18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode
with him fifteen days. 19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. 20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.

he dint meet many apostles and dint care to. He uses a lot of "I" and "me" and ultimately says 'he lie not'
so what i get is,
he says things and when not obeyed guilts people by using Christ, tells them not to believe the gospels by the 'real' apostles and earlier christians as they contradict him and he claims that only he knows Christ best!!!
I seriously doubt a man like that, would you believe him and entrust him with your soul and having a faìth that he preached?

Look to the Law of the Jubilee, for Jesus the Christ is our Great Jubilee. When that 49/50 year comes around, all debts (sins) are canceled as if they had never been, all people who were in bondage due to debt are set free to return (there's your effort) to their inheritance, and all land reverts to its rightful owner. More than that, the Law as given to Moses directs that when a master frees his slaves, which he will have to do when the Jubilee arrives, he must send them off with benefits - a grubstake if you will.

God sees the end from the beginning, so He sees us as free from debt/sin, returned to our land and inheritance, and as having abundance. Have you not understood that when Christ returns and redeems us, we step into the Liberty of the Jubilee?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by newnature

 

two things...

It follows logically that this secret must not be read into the four Gospels

Please explain this...

And where did Jesus mention Grace?

Or any of Pauls doctrine for that matter

Thanks

edit on 9-2-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

here-
Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” NKJV

and here-
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. KJV

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. -John 14:15

whose?

Who have received the law by the disposition of angels Acts7

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds..Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? Hebrews1

Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage.. Galatians4

Think not that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, on whom ye have set your hope.John5 ASV

God's laws are eternal. Would you like some scripture for that?

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. Hebrews7

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews8

for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 2Corinthians

Originally posted by Rustami

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. -John 14:15

whose?

Who have received the law by the disposition of angels Acts7

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds..Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? Hebrews1

Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage.. Galatians4

Think not that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, on whom ye have set your hope.John5 ASV

God's laws are eternal. Would you like some scripture for that?

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. Hebrews7

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews8

for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 2Corinthians

I'm not sure I understand what your first point is.
And I don't get your second part either.
Do you or don't you believe Jesus? Because to me, it seems like you're trying to use Paul's teachings to trump Jesus' teachings as if Paul has more authority over Jesus' teachings because I remember the scripture where Jesus said, heaven and earth will pass away but my words will never pass away.
Honestly, Today's Christian's speech seems to me more complicated/ambiguous than it should be, I see absolutely NO reason to believe that the Old Testament should be ignored, even if Paul says we're blind for doing so. Jesus read from the Old Testament, he understood it, and it spoke of him. After he rose he explained the scriptures to some of his disciples.
I don't get it, why do many Christians do this? They revere Paul and toss Jesus' teachings aside. It's disturbing.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by Wonders

 

We are not asking for you to trust us but to trust the scripture. Not what you have been told scripture says but what it actually says. The words are far more plain and simple than we have been told. Trust the scripture, look through our posts where we have provided scripture and ask yourself do we disagree with Christ or with what you believe?

Well, that's why I don't trust either of you, because I trust Jesus' teachings to be true and eternal.
I was actually hoping you and your buddy there would be providing scripture, but I have been providing scripture, hoping that others would see the difference between what you two are saying and what the bible says.

I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. -John 15:15
So, what's going on here? Why is Paul venorated for revealing a "secret" when Jesus has the answers?

reply to post by Wonders


What concept are we talking about that you want me to provide scripture for you to understand. You can then post a rebuttal, with or without scripture and I will explain to you why what you think falls short of the truth.

We are saying that it is possible to be free from the bondage of sin, how could this be anti-Christ? He was without sin, and he wants us to be like him. He promised he would make us like him if we did the will of the father, which is to obey him.

Do the things he said always. Always turn the other cheek, don't argue even once. Always forgive whatever wrong is done to you. Always have mercy on those who are less fortunate than you.

This is all we are saying. We say it in ways that make it sound amazing, simply because truly being born again is an indescribable feeling. It is worth dying for and better than that it is even worth living for.

Our hope is only for you to have the same spiritual rebirth that we have, so that you will never hunger or thirst for love again. We are telling you, we did what he said, accepted his Grace, and were reborn by the power of God in us. We are just describing our experience the best we can.