The Crackpots Versus The Serious ATSers

My Dear ATSers,

Over the last couple of months I have noticed a significant increase in posters who jump on threads for no other reason than to put down the beliefs of the thread starter. Specifically, on threads that concern topics of an esoteric nature. The basic rationale of these posters is that "obviously your paranormal/conspiracy/UFO/religious/etc. beliefs are wrong & deluded by their very nature, & should not be entitled to waste the time of a serious news organization like ATS."

I'm all for expressing one's opinion, but what purpose does this harassment (because that's what it is) serve? It's one thing to disagree with another person, and engage in a discussion. But it's another when a poster will not once, but several times during the course of a thread repeat the monotonous "this is a stupid topic! it can't be proven! why are these topics even allowed on ATS?" I mean, seriously, no need to post this more than once on a thread--we get it! Really!

If there are certain people on this board (including some moderators) who feel that so-called "non-serious" topics such as the paranormal, UFOs, conspiracy theories, etc. are not deserving of ATS's time because said topics are "stupid" (deny ignorance? what?) -- then maybe it would be more productive if you all banded together & formed a team to petition ATS to get rid of these topics. You obviously feel passionate enough about this to "crash" one thread after another with your views--why not act on them & "do some good" for the ATS community by clearing out all the "crackpots?"

Then ATS can be a website that just focuses on "serious" news & science issues, without all those "crazies" to discredit it. I'm sure the "tin foil hat squad" will manage to find another website (or a thousand) that will allow them to discuss what is important to them without being insulted by other posters. Or maybe some will get together & start a website of their own.

At some point, I feel, this issue will come to a head at ATS regardless--because every time I log on I notice this situation more & more & I come back to read/write posts less & less frequently. And these days I'm more & more hesitant to post/comment on a thread because the hostility is just making it not worth my time. I suppose in a way my inaction on the ATS boards helps the "serious ATSers" in whatever Deny Ignorance crusade (accent on the word "crusade") they're on. But this is just a website, ultimately meant just as much for my entertainment & relaxation as for my "hard news." Why be aggravated & insulted on my free time?

In conclusion, the "Tin Foil Derby Society," in conjunction with both the "Anti-Reptillian Alliance" and the "Deluded Magicans & Witches Council of Upper Hogsmeade" (as well as "Christians For Jesus") humbly ask ATS to decide whether or not it wants them as patrons of this site. We won't be insulted if you say "no" -- at least I won't, I'll just stop wasting my time.

Sincerely,
Cassandra "Crackpot" (and proud of it) Clay

Great post Cassie.

I was thinking this to myself today as well. I am beginning to think more and more that ATS has become an anti-conspiracy site. As the news becomes more popular around here, I think that many people start thinking, "Well, if I didn't see it in the news, it can't be true!" But, there are a lot of people of varying opinion around here and it's good to read about all of it. I am in a similar bout with you, I don't come to ATS for the politics, I know other sites where that is their main focus.

I came to ATS because of conspiracy, plain and simple. I was looking forward to alternative views on the world as we know it and it was great for awhile. But, now it seems, the board has become plugged by the politics/terrorism/news members who decide every once in awhile (or even fairly often) that they'd like to take a whack at the rest of the members here.

At least that is my observation. But, I hope this board is big enough for the both of us.

I rarely say anything, but when I do, I most likely should not have said anything in the first place....This being said:

Nice post Cassie, I agree with you, mostly.

The reason I first found this place was the fact that I was trying to find info on Dulce, N.M. Everything went downhill from there. I am on one hand a complete skeptic but on the other, I believe everything. I wish that made more sense, but it does to me. I guess my point is, I laugh a lot when I come here. Sure somethings are outer limits, but whats wrong with that? Thats the main point of this isn't it? Not real sure but the Conspiracy part came first right? If that was gone, I got to be brutal here; This place would suck. Yeah, I like the news and all, but I look at this place as a retreat, a get away. Sort of like how beer is a vacation in a can?

How many would there be, if all the crackpots left anyway? We all have that one thing in common don't we? Could be about a completely different topic, but we all mostly came here for the same reason. Open forum for discussing the bizarre, and none mainstream? Not as good with words as most here are, so I hope my point cam across.

Cassie for that you deserve a way above IMO

[edit on 10/29/2004 by bobafett1972]

One of the problems recently on ATS (admittedly, I fall into this category and I am a fairly new member as well) is the trend to make every thread into a political diatribe, one way or the other, then build a bunker and hunker down for a fight. When I first started watching ATS, it was a fun place to learn and get learned on all sorts of conspiracies and other paranormal and secretive topics. Seems we've almost all been usurped into the fray of the current political debauchery and have abandoned with wreckless will any notion of rescuing ATS from the bowels of hell that every other forum turned political stumping ground ends up.

Personally, I can't wait for the election cycle to be over and get back to serious denying of ignorance.

But it's another when a poster will not once, but several times during the course of a thread repeat the monotonous "this is a stupid topic! it can't be proven! why are these topics even allowed on ATS?" I mean, seriously, no need to post this more than once on a thread--we get it! Really!

I couldn't agree more. Some people are taking the "deny ignorance" mantra to an entirely different level, which will eventually end up inhibiting discussion. I've seen several threads where people explicitly state in their initial post that they are talking about an idea or event that has no proof, and yet they are still challenged to provide proof.

MK

Originally posted by Cassie Clay
every time I log on I notice this situation more & more & I come back to read/write posts less & less frequently. And these days I'm more & more hesitant to post/comment on a thread because the hostility is just making it not worth my time.

Whereas I agree with most of what you said, Cassie, I personally will always post in a thread if I have something to add. 'Hostility be damned' as someone probably said before I even thought of it.

Most of the threads I start, however, can be considered to be of the 'crackpot' persuasion (although I have been known to in ATSNN at times), so I guess I'm reckoned to be a crackpot. Actually, I believe in pixies so I know some ATS members consider me to be one. Still, never mind, where would the world be without a modicum of 'Pixyness'

Pisky
Founder member of 'Pixies against Political Correctness'

[edit on 29-10-2004 by Pisky]

Pisky
Founder member of 'Pixies against Political Correctness'

I guess I am standing over here in the CRACKPOT line myself.......hmmmm.......maybe while I am here I can read the literature from P.A.P.C? got any to spare there Mr Pisky?sounds like MY kind of politics really

[edit on 29-10-2004 by theRiverGoddess]

Cassie,

This is a result of the popularity of this site. It's happened with all good sites. Consider ragingbull.com -- at one time a great place to talk about stocks. Then the shorters and pumpers showed up and it went to hell. I don't think this will happen here because there is a great staff working here on a voluntary basis which is what makes it different from sites like raging bull. People like you described will come and go, and you also have to realize that everyone can have a bad day. Hell, I went on a rant tonight about a thread about the latest computer virus.

Yes I agree with Cassie on this too... Maybe some ATSers read too fast from reading too many posts in one day they suffer from some kind of "fatigue" say maybe "ignorance fatigue.."

Some of my posts were succumed to these "ignorace fatigue" attacks....

Casie, my dear, good post!!

You have voted Cassie Clay for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

This forum is huge and has attaracted lots of fols because of the election. But, it is no excuse for rudeness. I figure there is a certain percentage of trolls and they LOVE controversy.
I don't think they will overtake the forum. But they are pesky.

From one "crackpot" to another...hang in there Cassie

In defence of ATS, I see the beginnings of "in depth and interactive" debates with certain well known individuals, (whether you've come to accept their testimonies or not), as a great improvement.

But I do concur with Cassie, and it is not a notion which hasn't come up before. I throw you back to the first interactive debate, where there was dissatisfaction in relation to the manner in which the guest was treated by the 'proof wishers'. That exchange brought about an attempt by the super moderators to even open up discussions about that problem in a seperate thread.

Personally, I enjoy reading about the unproven. While I search for truth and acceptance... to see the spring of 'crackpot ideas and revelation' reduced to a mere trickle would be a disaster for ATS.

I spend a little time in BTS now and then...and post there as well. Lets keep it, I say.

Another member once started the idea of a philosophical board. If we did we should let the first question to be debated be the one that reflects this very topic now under discussion.

Is Ats for astounding, radical new discovery from the fountainhead of all crackpot ideas, or is it merely to be a forum for the discussion of what obviously IS?





[edit on 29-10-2004 by masqua]

[edit on 29-10-2004 by masqua]

I did come to ATS mainly for the politics. I wanted to listen to both sides of a topic. The idea of quoted source links is a great tool to see if the source is credible to me or not.

Of course, once here, I could not ignore some of the other boards. Conspiracies, etc. I followed several threads paying attention to both sides presented.

There were, of course, some hot opinions. And there followed great hostility in some cases. Even this was not so bad because of the passion being expressed for different views. I think I was most upset by personal attacks with snide remarks against other members.

IMHO

People come to this board because they have heard of a conspiracy and once they get here I think they just get caught up in mainstream news, and discrediting other's theories.


What a boring world it would be if everybody thought the same...

I for one am glad to associate myself with "crackpots" as I would rather associate myself with them then the typical human who just follows the rest of flock.

This reminds me of plato's allegory of the cave.

It's refreshing for me to read different news and opinions. Even if the "news" isn't on mainstream media... This by far more entertaining then watching top stories on ccn or nbc.

cheers

Great post Cassie, and don't lose heart! I think a lot of people on ATS (and elsewhere on the Internet) feel the same, but not many are brave enough, or angered enough by it, to speak up. It is however the nature of the beast that when you start getting outside of mainstream thought or news, that you will be subjected to the thoughtless and rude reactions of some whose motto is perhaps "propagate ignorance".

A few thoughts:

* Try to thicken your skin a little. Remember these people don't know you and it's not a personal attack. Often spammers/flamers like these will go away if they are treated with stony unresponsiveness from the posters who actually want to be discussing the topic with an open mind. Many are there just to get a reaction, or getting off on the feeling of power that they get from the anonymity of the Internet.

* Judging by your gracious and restrained post, this doesn't need saying, but if the person does have a legitimate argument against the content of your post and presents it in a manner that is not offensive, then that is quite in line with the spirit of the board and you should respect their opinion too. Whether or not you decide to argue the point is up to you.

* Write up a short, direct paragraph or set of links directing rude or spamming poster to the sections of "Website/Board Rules & Updates" that pertain to denying ignorance, tolerance of others' views/opinions, thoughtful posting, and generally being an all-around discussion-board nice-guy/gal. Every time you get a poster that you feel is going against the spirit of the ATS boards, just copy and paste the same message each time, while continuing with your repsonse to other posters in the thread. Again, when faced with a stone wall of unresponsiveness, most spammers will move on.

* One of the wonderful little tools of discussion boards is the Ignore Button. One push of this little Godsend and that warm, fuzzy, forum feeling will be coming back in no time. But beware, overuse of this puppy can cause every single post that you see on your screen to start with "I agree!" and "YES! EXACTLY!" which can tend to make things a little dull.

Just a few thoughts from a fellow part-time tinfoil-hat-wearer.

wecomeinpeace

Just a "hear, hear!" post from a kindred spirit.

Essentially, this is an appeal for a higher signal-to-noise ratio, which is a problem inherent to every publically-accessible discussion forum.

There's no way around it, there will always be wankers no matter where you go (good wankers go to Heaven, even, so no escape there).

I tend to agree with those who advise not letting low-value posts get you down.

I am also finding myself looking more and more at the "ignore" option. I have used it only very rarely and temporarily to date, but am seeing more merit to it lately, especially with all the political partisan parrot-squawking polluting the boards.

At some point, a member has established that he or she doesn't think or read the thread before posting, and will probably never contribute anything meaningful.

When that happens, ignoring such a member is usually the best option. The "ignore" feature just makes it easier.

My evolving opinion on the topic -- feel free to ignore it, or me for that matter.

Cassie, like other posters has said already, exercise your ignore button, sometimes is good to have that option.

The ultimate goal of this site should be to distinguish between bonafide conspiracy, paranoid delusions and fraud.

A healthy skepticism is a good thing, but you are right to note that if your post doesn't pass muster with some you will be harassed into oblivion.

Does this count as a conspiracy?

Ive been reading on here for a couple months and just recently decided to join the voice of the masses.

I agree with boba mostly and cassie some.
I kinda skim the cracks like i do the insanely unbelievable, but all in all, this place is an excellent site to inform oneself thanks to some awesome research and information by alot of great people.

The links and info u can find here has saved me a crapload of research that hardly any one person could virtually never do on his/her own within so many different topics and areas. Just wanted to extend some thanks for helping me expand my mind in more ways than ever assumed humanly possible.

And of course with the topics this site hosts, the freaks will come out in forces...hehe no offense freaks cuz we all come out at nite...

I know this is off topic, but Silverado, I have to ask. What's the story behind that gif you've got as your avatar?

I believe and support the views of Cassie

The differance l have noticed between posts from members such as Cassie is there true knowledge of the subject they post which can be learned from and posts by people that don`t really have a clue.
My knowledge on the threads is limited but some people you just can`t help replying to

Ats is going to suffer as it started out attracting members like Cassie they as ATS staff are making this site so large the quality is going to reduce.This was mentioned in a similar thread a few months ago when Skeptic was bragging about the amount of members joining.I informed him that l have noticed cracks apearing.You can guess his reply to that comment.I guess the staff have a different agenda than simply forming a disscussion board for people to voice there experiances and knowledge.Maybe this is due to the lack of any crediable occureances happening.I think this site is starting to peak.Hopefully then the looneys and people who write just to start an arguement will diasappear.I hope members like Cassie stick with it before that happens.
It will be a sad day if ATS looses intelligent knowledgable normal people for the sake of large numbers of people.

Stick with it cassie people are taking notice of what you write.Even the ones you wouldn`t expect.