In essence, we are trained, not educated.
Ooh, I like that!
A Digital Reconstruction of Angkor Wat, page 2
reply posted on 9-2-2013 @ 05:24 PM by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by jiggerj
We humans tend to be so full of ourselves, don't we?
Do you honestly believe that just merely existing "today" makes you smarter than someone back then? It is an outdated mindset, borne of our whole "rising from apes" concept where our cavemen ancestors were stooped over and not even able to pee without getting it all over their hands.
I would posit quite the opposite: places like Angkor Wat prove that ancient man was every bit as intellectually affluant, and quite possibly moreso, given how many times I hear about how the stones at Baalbek can't even be moved with today's equipment.
The human experience today is rife with things like staring at man made objects. The human experience a few centuries ago was rife with things like staring at naturally made things. The difference in the two is that if you study nature, you are studying how things are made through the brilliance of millenia of development. Or, instead, you can take your inspiration from the accumulated development of man over the last couple thousand years. It is obvious which experience will yield more insight.
We humans tend to be so full of ourselves, don't we?
Do you honestly believe that just merely existing "today" makes you smarter than someone back then? It is an outdated mindset, borne of our whole "rising from apes" concept where our cavemen ancestors were stooped over and not even able to pee without getting it all over their hands.
I would posit quite the opposite: places like Angkor Wat prove that ancient man was every bit as intellectually affluant, and quite possibly moreso, given how many times I hear about how the stones at Baalbek can't even be moved with today's equipment.
The human experience today is rife with things like staring at man made objects. The human experience a few centuries ago was rife with things like staring at naturally made things. The difference in the two is that if you study nature, you are studying how things are made through the brilliance of millenia of development. Or, instead, you can take your inspiration from the accumulated development of man over the last couple thousand years. It is obvious which experience will yield more insight.
reply posted on 9-2-2013 @ 07:37 PM by deessell
Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by ladyteeny
it is their intellectual property- so they made it for themselves apparently.
I wonder if Cambodians are allowed to watch it......
This is why I hate......so many things....will not list. Dont care anymore....moving on.
I live in Cambodia and the video is unavailable here.
reply posted on 9-2-2013 @ 08:11 PM by Geraputo
Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Klassified
The architecture bothers me on two fronts.
1. Give me ten thousand people of average education today (which should be the equivalent of 10,000 geniuses back then) and there's no way we could build such an elaborate expanse of structures. How did they learn to build like this?????
2. I imagine that back then, without TV or radio, the people had to have used their creative minds a LOT more than we do today. Is our modern society actually dumbing us down?
I disagree with your first comment, as I work in the construction trade (Painter), and I am not not college educated nor are most who work within most construction fields. I have contributed to great works of architecture with far less people than 10,000. Humans are a crafty animal remember!
I do however, agree with your second statement. I feel the technology has made us numb of many things around us in our natural environment. It seems we have lost knowledge somewhere along the journey of humanity. I think all the distractions we have encountered in our recent times have helped to further bury it.
Very nice thread OP. As I am new to this forum I hope for many more fascinating reads!
reply posted on 9-2-2013 @ 11:21 PM by jiggerj
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
I want to believe that the average man of today is smarter than the average person 5,000 years ago. If there isn't a line of progression when it comes to knowledge then what the hell are we doing here?
And then I see how corn was manipulated from what was more of a blade of grass with one kernel on it to what we have today. I wouldn't know where to begin to do this. Or how to move giant stones. I'm not even sure I could get a fire hot enough to melt green rock into copper without the use of our technology today.
So, are we actually MORE stupid than the people back then?
Do you honestly believe that just merely existing "today" makes you smarter than someone back then? It is an outdated mindset, borne of our whole "rising from apes" concept where our cavemen ancestors were stooped over and not even able to pee without getting it all over their hands.
I want to believe that the average man of today is smarter than the average person 5,000 years ago. If there isn't a line of progression when it comes to knowledge then what the hell are we doing here?
And then I see how corn was manipulated from what was more of a blade of grass with one kernel on it to what we have today. I wouldn't know where to begin to do this. Or how to move giant stones. I'm not even sure I could get a fire hot enough to melt green rock into copper without the use of our technology today.
So, are we actually MORE stupid than the people back then?
reply posted on 9-2-2013 @ 11:53 PM by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by jiggerj
Well, knowledge is not "smarts". It is more like knowing facts that give you a context for understanding. "Smarts" has more to do with processing power.
I think the overall processing power of the human intellect is relatively unchanged, at least over the last 2000 to 3000 years. I would say that beyond that, I have concerns related to bicameralism (which I believe I have mentioned to you before). I believe the intellect was still there on the whole, but the actualization may have yielded different results.
In any event, yes....some knowledge has increased. But much knowledge has either decreased or been lost. Things like writing give us a standardization from which a culture can be refined. But everyone knowing how to write is a skill that displaces something else that may or may not be as important.
A great example of this is the often circulated 1895 Grammar School Test . From the link i provide (Snopes) is the following observation:
From the above mentioned test, as an example:
I don't think more than a handful of folks on this forum could quantify what a bushel is without the help of Google. I have a general idea of what one is, due to my childhood. But my answer to the above would be a guesstimate, not a specific amount (approx 2-3, i believe).
The types of things known today...it is different. What we think is important changes. We don't care what kinds of tubers are good during the winter months in our local area, and fewer and fewer would be able to identify the dung of a game animal vs. a predator. This used to be critically important information. But it is now replaced with things like how to operate Windows, or how to navigate the Android OS.
It isn't that we are smart. We have just displaced 1 knowledge for another. Just because that knowledge is of something of a more technical nature doesn't mean much. It isn't like you and I can reinvent the computer from scratch, even if we have a general idea of how it works.
Well, knowledge is not "smarts". It is more like knowing facts that give you a context for understanding. "Smarts" has more to do with processing power.
I think the overall processing power of the human intellect is relatively unchanged, at least over the last 2000 to 3000 years. I would say that beyond that, I have concerns related to bicameralism (which I believe I have mentioned to you before). I believe the intellect was still there on the whole, but the actualization may have yielded different results.
In any event, yes....some knowledge has increased. But much knowledge has either decreased or been lost. Things like writing give us a standardization from which a culture can be refined. But everyone knowing how to write is a skill that displaces something else that may or may not be as important.
A great example of this is the often circulated 1895 Grammar School Test . From the link i provide (Snopes) is the following observation:
Ah, but this is high school (or even eighth grade) stuff, people say — it's basic knowledge that everyone should remember and use. Nonsense. The questions on this exam don't reflect only items of "basic knowledge" — many of the questions require the test-taker to have absorbed some very specialized information, and if today's students can't regurgitate all the same facts as their 1895 counterparts, it's because the types of knowledge we consider to be important have changed a great deal in the last century, not necessarily because today's students have sub-standard educations.
From the above mentioned test, as an example:
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
I don't think more than a handful of folks on this forum could quantify what a bushel is without the help of Google. I have a general idea of what one is, due to my childhood. But my answer to the above would be a guesstimate, not a specific amount (approx 2-3, i believe).
The types of things known today...it is different. What we think is important changes. We don't care what kinds of tubers are good during the winter months in our local area, and fewer and fewer would be able to identify the dung of a game animal vs. a predator. This used to be critically important information. But it is now replaced with things like how to operate Windows, or how to navigate the Android OS.
It isn't that we are smart. We have just displaced 1 knowledge for another. Just because that knowledge is of something of a more technical nature doesn't mean much. It isn't like you and I can reinvent the computer from scratch, even if we have a general idea of how it works.
reply posted on 10-2-2013 @ 02:58 AM by ~widowmaker~
reply to post by Klassified
pretty cool, the only thing i dont like about these reconstructions is most go off of theory, it would be nice to see pictures in some scripts and then have it built/recreated exactly. that would be a lot of freakin gold though even if it was fine flake, or painted thinly. and why did they "assume" it was covered in limestone?
ive seen some reconstruction of greek building and they found a way to date/ tell differnt layers of faded pigments with infrared camera or something. they should use the same tech and see if there was actually any color at all, im sure there was givin all the colors still used in the culture to this day.
still cool none the less.
pretty cool, the only thing i dont like about these reconstructions is most go off of theory, it would be nice to see pictures in some scripts and then have it built/recreated exactly. that would be a lot of freakin gold though even if it was fine flake, or painted thinly. and why did they "assume" it was covered in limestone?
ive seen some reconstruction of greek building and they found a way to date/ tell differnt layers of faded pigments with infrared camera or something. they should use the same tech and see if there was actually any color at all, im sure there was givin all the colors still used in the culture to this day.
still cool none the less.
reply posted on 10-2-2013 @ 04:44 AM by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by deessell
THAT is too much....
I hate academia. What the hell gives them the right to ask for people´s courtesy as guests and then deny them the discoveries they make?
I am sorry to hear that.....
THAT is too much....
I hate academia. What the hell gives them the right to ask for people´s courtesy as guests and then deny them the discoveries they make?
I am sorry to hear that.....
reply posted on 10-2-2013 @ 08:31 AM by Klassified
reply to post by ~widowmaker~
I love this kind of stuff. Yes, they do have to extrapolate from the information at hand, but in some cases, that can be quite extensive. In the video, you'll hear they believe the outer walls and columns were coated with white lime. I would say they are basing this off of residue found in several places. Same thing with the gold. Residue found through analysis.
The things we can't know though, are what might have been painted over the lime or gold at one time. Symbolism or writing could have been there. Also inside. There isn't much of a way we'll ever know what murals were on those walls. Unlike Pompeii and Akratiri, where they found frescoes and graffiti still preserved under the volcanic ash.
It may not not be an exact science, but it's cool to get an idea of the glory of those old structures.
I love this kind of stuff. Yes, they do have to extrapolate from the information at hand, but in some cases, that can be quite extensive. In the video, you'll hear they believe the outer walls and columns were coated with white lime. I would say they are basing this off of residue found in several places. Same thing with the gold. Residue found through analysis.
The things we can't know though, are what might have been painted over the lime or gold at one time. Symbolism or writing could have been there. Also inside. There isn't much of a way we'll ever know what murals were on those walls. Unlike Pompeii and Akratiri, where they found frescoes and graffiti still preserved under the volcanic ash.
It may not not be an exact science, but it's cool to get an idea of the glory of those old structures.
reply posted on 10-2-2013 @ 10:32 AM by Hijinx
reply to post by jiggerj
You'd be surprised what man can do when he really puts all of himself into something. Exactly as you said, with out TV, Radio, Professional sports, porn, and drugs/alcohol the average man has a lot more pride in his work. If you're life is about masonry you better believe you'd want to be the best mason you could be. Same with Architecture, even aiding in the construction. It's a sort of celebrity status, obviously forgotten to time, but if you built that then think of the recognition. Think of the pride you would feel for yourself and family. I absolutely believe man was capable of these great feats. I'm also not sure we are "Smarter" today, than we were then.
On a day to day basis I feel people keep getting "stupider." Every day I meet someone who has to pull out their phone to look something up, or even to regurgitate something to me. " Hey man, I read this really cool thing online." " Oh cool, what did you read?" " Hang on a sec, I can't really remember much of it. Here check it out."
Now, I'm not always the best at digesting every word I read, but I can give you the general idea, days, weeks, months after the fact. We all have the capacity to be effing brilliant, we all are naturally better at some things than others, and we all learn in different ways. How ever our modern world is set up in a way where you must all learn the same way, you can just pull out your phone and do math, or look for data on the spot, so why use your greatest gift.
Not to take a shot, because I do know some smart construction workers, but a good number of them aren't exactly very smart. High school drop outs, illiterate guys, criminals. I've met them all in that field, and they are capable of some pretty fine work. I have no less respect for them, than anyone else I just wouldn't get them to do my taxes, or write a paper for me. Everyone is remarkable in their own way.
You'd be surprised what man can do when he really puts all of himself into something. Exactly as you said, with out TV, Radio, Professional sports, porn, and drugs/alcohol the average man has a lot more pride in his work. If you're life is about masonry you better believe you'd want to be the best mason you could be. Same with Architecture, even aiding in the construction. It's a sort of celebrity status, obviously forgotten to time, but if you built that then think of the recognition. Think of the pride you would feel for yourself and family. I absolutely believe man was capable of these great feats. I'm also not sure we are "Smarter" today, than we were then.
On a day to day basis I feel people keep getting "stupider." Every day I meet someone who has to pull out their phone to look something up, or even to regurgitate something to me. " Hey man, I read this really cool thing online." " Oh cool, what did you read?" " Hang on a sec, I can't really remember much of it. Here check it out."
Now, I'm not always the best at digesting every word I read, but I can give you the general idea, days, weeks, months after the fact. We all have the capacity to be effing brilliant, we all are naturally better at some things than others, and we all learn in different ways. How ever our modern world is set up in a way where you must all learn the same way, you can just pull out your phone and do math, or look for data on the spot, so why use your greatest gift.
Not to take a shot, because I do know some smart construction workers, but a good number of them aren't exactly very smart. High school drop outs, illiterate guys, criminals. I've met them all in that field, and they are capable of some pretty fine work. I have no less respect for them, than anyone else I just wouldn't get them to do my taxes, or write a paper for me. Everyone is remarkable in their own way.
reply posted on 10-2-2013 @ 12:04 PM by Klassified
reply to post by vendettent
For those who can't watch this video. Either follow the directions given by "GezinhoKiko" on the first page, or try these links and see if they work.
Smithsonian
Metacafe
For those who can't watch this video. Either follow the directions given by "GezinhoKiko" on the first page, or try these links and see if they work.
Smithsonian
Metacafe
reply posted on 11-2-2013 @ 01:56 AM by nothingwrong
Originally posted by Klassified
I couldn't resist posting this. Cambodia's Angkor wat, built in the twelfth century, is a masterpiece of craftsmanship, and a testament to the people who built it. This video by the Smithsonian, is the culmination of many years of work trying to piece together what this temple/palace might have originally looked like...
You can also view it at MSN
It's very majestic and ornate. At some angles in the video, it almost looks a little futuristic in its design. An impressive architectural feat, no matter how you look at it.
It said "the uploader has not made this available in your country." Thanks, very nice of you!
reply posted on 11-2-2013 @ 01:59 AM by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by Klassified
same deal.
I am going to wait until it is available from pirated sources. Or make it available for Cambodians myself.....
same deal.
I am going to wait until it is available from pirated sources. Or make it available for Cambodians myself.....
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