Where does seeking lead? One truth. Here it is., page 1

How can I sum up what I have learned over the last few years in life and on ATS?

The more I live and experience life, the more I see the end of the story for humanity. All of this experience called life can be summed up with one central truth. I'll get to that truth as I see it by the end. First, how do we see ourselves?

The main point of any religion is this: Worship and Submission to God. Do we submit to God or ourselves only?

The main point of philosophy is the highest virtue for humanity. We know the truth already, but do we apply what we know?

The truth of history shows the evidence for the Supreme Good of virtue and giving over taking and hatred. Have we learned from our own history?

The truth of our actions on Earth show that we are using it up quickly. Have we learned anything from our religions or philosophies that is being applied toward a solution?

Beyond these questions, humanity can be summed up with one religion, ideology and philosophy--that of the Hypocrite. If we are honest, the central truth to humanity is that of duplicity against truth and unity.

At the end of the day, the pride of all our religions can be summed up by our thoughts, words and deeds. We are all thieves and sinners accordingly. We are all hypocrites. No matter if it's Deepak Chopra or any modern guru, the same is true. We can watch his Son's documentary (Decoding Deepak) to see what a hypocrite this guru is--no different than me or you. Of course, this is no different than any human, just packaged with a different philosophy, title and frame of reference to the same God.

If it's Solomon, we read Ecclesiastes and hear his lament about being out of context with truth. All is vanity according to Solomon. It was for nothing at the end of the day unless it was a reflection of what was given through work and effort. Solomon realized, in all of his knowledge and wisdom, that he was a failed husband (700 wives) and a failed father (sons who did not honor his wisdom). His conclusion was that we must work and enjoy life for the benefit of those we love. All of his possessions, wives and family were a reflection of his own life and ambition. At the end of his day on earth, he was no better or worse than any of us.

If we look at any theological box we put God inside, the central understanding we witness is God trying to take us out of that box. If we try to avoid sin, we are immersed further into it. If we try to rise above the Earth, we are swallowed back into it. If we rise to fame and fortune, we are soon forgotten and our wealth is inherited by others. At the end of the day, we are searching for what was right there for all of us. There IS one truth above the rest.

We are all equal by this central truth: We think and move only. The quality of those thoughts and movements are not determined by our philosophy, theology or divine pride. At the end of the day, we are defined by what we give to others. All gifts must be first earned. None of us can earn what we are given by God. We do two things: We think and we move. We don't make our hair grow, our eyes see, our ears hear or the sun shine. It's done for us down to the two things we actually can do. The rest is the gift given to us by the unity that originates us. Words, thoughts and deeds are equal and no religion is necessary apart from one central truth--Giving and receiving over taking.

It's better to give and receive. Beyond this, we are all thieves and hypocrites. The only thing that can change this state of our matter is the one that originally gave it. Islam cannot save you any more than claiming to be Christian apart from taking the name (Character) of Christ completely. Do Christians take the name in total, all the way to selling all they have? No! Christians are hypocrites just like the rest of humanity. I call myself Christian, fully knowing HIS work cannot be mine. HIS cup is His alone. My cup can only reflect this by the things I can give to others. Just like Islam killing and taking in the name of God, the hypocrite and thieve in us all eventually shows itself to be present and unavoidable.

The only true realization of self is to see that both images of good and evil are present in the image. The image is cast by God and the light CAN be divided. Calling ourselves by a name requires the character that accompanies it. We can try, but we will ultimately be shown to be the same Hypocrite as the rest.

God is love. Does Islam, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Ultra Orthodox or another name show this love of God? No, only the one that moves and thinks can show this love as a reflection of the light divided from the darkness or the darkness divided and separated from the light. Thoughts, words and deeds can only show our need for the ONLY one that is true to His word--God.

The only true religion is love and love can only give and receive. If you think you see God face to face or have met him, you deceive yourself. We are ALL equal as blind men describing fire. All of us equally guilty; all of us equally blind; all of us equally hypocrites. You may say, but my truth is higher than yours. If you do, you show your pride above the other. This is not love. You might say, I sin less than you, therefore, I know God more. Again, this is in error. We ALL sin. You might say, I have salvation and reward after death? I would simply point out that your aim is the reward and not the character of Christ or Muhammad if you have not sold all you own. Christ was the messenger to Islam as well, and his message was to sell your possessions and give to the poor. You might say that sin leads to punishment, therefore, we must run from sin. I say, you are again showing duplicity. Are you wanting to avoid punishment or are you after the Supreme Good of God only? Again, we are all hypocrites. If you are an Atheist, you might say you are above all religions. Not so. You are simply making yourself the religion.

Until we realize our status apart from God, we remain in that state. All of us here are in this place because we have been baptized into the river of life. We are ALL in this water together and all of us are here now to repent of that pride that separates us from the others at our side. NONE of us are above this status unless we separate ourselves from our fellow humans.

Take on any name you like, but at the end of the day, we are all in this together. Until we act in the best interest of others, we are all hypocrites naming our own pride by the religion or philosophy we follow.

Where does this leave me according to my own religious beliefs? The same place I started. My aim will be to rise in the water toward the one that attracts me. Christ, no matter how we see Him, is a the point of life. Love others as you love yourself. Judge not unless you judge yourself first. Judge and you will be judged. God keeps no records of wrongs and neither should we.

This is where I leave my work here. I remain a Christian because I see that this central truth is its reflection to my own. I see that Christ came to show this truth to us all. I can look anywhere I want to look and notice the same central truth. If I consult the Freemasons, they hold the lost word. If I consult the Dhammapada, I see the same inexorable truth mentioned in the opening poem. If I consult Rumi the Sufi, I get it again as the Beloved. If I check Atheism, again I see the truth by the opposite reflection. If I immerse myself in the occult and Paganism, I again see the same Mystery studied to the same conclusion. If I study science, the same enigma of design and purpose emerges, which points us right back to the giving and receiving nature of Creation.

All religions, philosophies and ideologies all point us back to the same Law of Love mirrored against the opposite reflection of our image of pride and hypocritical actions in the reflection. We are all children being raised by this law.

1 Corinthians 13

11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

We are Children of God until we are no longer children I suppose. As I grow up, I simply request that others forgive me as I learn to forgive them. Love demands this from all of us.

Will we sin while in the water? Yes. Keep no records of wrongs. Simply rise.

The question for all of us: Jacob or Esau?

Originally posted by muzzleflash
I do not "submit" to what I refer to in my terminology as "God", because it cannot be submitted to.
Technicality and semantics!

I am using the textbook definition of "Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Eternal, and Infinite" as my guiding basis for my terminology.

All that is, I surmise, apparently is the eventuality of the manifestation of the underlying force or principle that all energy is composed of.

That which exists, exists as a function of it's own existence.

I am talking about reality here, aka, the universe, the holos, the whole conglomeration.

Right, but the central truth of Chaos to Order is Unity over multiplicity. How is that gained mathematically? Positive overtakes negative. Debt must be paid, the central problem of entropy. This does not change the energy itself. That's impossible.

The ONE truth I mention is the answer to this. Positive walks negative back from debt. Two negatives multiplied make a positive. The thief cannot do this. Only the one that gives and receives can dispel hatred and bring the circle around to where it starts. We are simply the points that meet as the circles intersect. This might sound bizarre. Simply study the Vescia Pisces. What did Pythagoras call the measure of the fish in mathematics? The 17th triangular number is an evident proof of what I am saying.

153

reply to post by EnochWasRight

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The truth of history shows the evidence for the Supreme Good of virtue

??? Are you talking about history as written in the bible, or the real history as recorded in history books? I have to ask because what I see of man's history is humans doing what humans do - over and over and over.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by EnochWasRight

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The truth of history shows the evidence for the Supreme Good of virtue

??? Are you talking about history as written in the bible, or the real history as recorded in history books? I have to ask because what I see of man's history is humans doing what humans do - over and over and over.

Neither. Those are written by hypocrites and both light and darkness are in the image. God is the one above that darkness. We don't know Him yet. The histories I mention are the actual events. We do not record those events and God's word is not the image. That Word is everywhere around us, in us and through us.

Check my last post on the circles. The key to this was outlined by Christ on the shore. He was on the other side of the water from Peter and peter had to put on a robe (covering for the soul) to enter the water. He entered after Christ revealed why with the 153 fish. Simply read the parable and look beyond the story to what is symbolized.

Peter is the Church on the shore. Christ is the Church in the water. God is neither and both.

It's His Story, not ours. God writes this story in word and we are that word.

Where does this leave me according to my own religious beliefs? The same place I started. My aim will be to rise in the water toward the one that attracts me. Christ, no matter how we see Him, is a the point of life. Love others as you love yourself. Judge not unless you judge yourself first. Judge and you will be judged. God keeps no records of wrongs and neither should we.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

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When you say 'judge not', when are we supposed to do this? I mean, if you see a man beating a woman, do you not judge him as violent and seek to stop him from hurting another human being? When you see a drunk driver swerving down the road, shouldn't you judge him as dangerous? I can understand that we shouldn't judge people when they get out of prison so they have the opportunity to start fresh, but there are times when it is more than just harmful to NOT judge people. Wouldn't you agree?

reply to post by EnochWasRight

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Ahhh you got me there.
Nice work I really liked your reply to me.

Thank you for giving me something to investigate for the afternoon.

Positive does overtake the negative, I agree because I have discovered this concept within countless different intellectual activities over the years.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by EnochWasRight

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Ahhh you got me there.
Nice work I really liked your reply to me.

Thank you for giving me something to investigate for the afternoon.

Positive does overtake the negative, I agree because I have discovered this concept within countless different intellectual activities over the years.

edit on 9-2-2013 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

Right. This becomes the point for all of us as we try to judge one truth over the other in an endless cycle. The circle simply works out from unity to multiplicity of ideas, then returns again to unity. The unity is the truth of ONE. That truth then is to understand the relationship of One to all of what exists. As the Bible has always stated, mathematically, it's Atonement. At One Ment with the first. Numerically, this is the monad. Compare the Monad of programming (LINK) and the Monad of religion (LINK)

When you are finished and understand, simply listen to John 1

AUDIO

John 1

The Word Became Flesh

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

John the Baptist Denies Being the Messiah

19 Now this was John’s testimony when the Jewish leaders[c] in Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. 20 He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Messiah.”

21 They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?”

He said, “I am not.”

“Are you the Prophet?”

He answered, “No.”

22 Finally they said, “Who are you? Give us an answer to take back to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?”

23 John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, “I am the voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way for the Lord.’”[d]

24 Now the Pharisees who had been sent 25 questioned him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Messiah, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”

26 “I baptize with[e] water,” John replied, “but among you stands one you do not know. 27 He is the one who comes after me, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.”

28 This all happened at Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing.

John Testifies About Jesus

29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ 31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”

32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”[f]

Hard to argue with the Chosen ONE. Not only does the Monad have His own proof built into the system, this evident axiom is the truth of love over hatred. Again, God keeps no records our negatives.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by EnochWasRight

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Ahhh you got me there.
Nice work I really liked your reply to me.

Thank you for giving me something to investigate for the afternoon.

Positive does overtake the negative, I agree because I have discovered this concept within countless different intellectual activities over the years.

edit on 9-2-2013 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

If you understand John 1, then pay close attention to John, who was Elijah. Elijah can be fully understood by baptism. We are immersed into the river of life for one purpose. To rise. This is the concept known as involution and evolution. Wiki this and you will find even more understanding and awareness.

When you get it, then return to 1 Kings 17 and know the secret behind the mystery of Elijah and the Widow woman at Zarephath (Place of refinement).

When Elijah takes the Son up the stairs to his chamber of rest, then brings him back down to mother alive, this is the picture of the dew coming down on the Earth. The sun rises and distills the impurity from the dew. The dew was the water as it is used to purify and grow the plants.

The Lamb is the sacrifice. The blood is caught in the bowl.

Greek and Latin Roots for Amni:

Amni - Stream of Water or River

Amnio - Greek "Bowl" or "Lamb"

"Denotes a thin, transparent, tough membrane lining and the fluid-filled cavity contains the embryo of reptiles, birds, and mammals [amniotes]; the membrane around a fetus; diminutive of amnos, lamb; a bowl in which the blood of sacrificial victims was caught. Now used primarily to indicate the membrane surrounding the fetus in utero. "

Amnion - The amnion is a membrane building the amniotic sac that surrounds and protects an embryo.

Amniotic Fluid - Amniotic fluid or liquor amnii is the nourishing and protecting liquid contained by the amniotic sac of a pregnant woman.

Amnia - bag of waters; the extraembryonic membrane of birds, reptiles, and mammals, which lines the chorion.

Sia - Greek > Latin: a suffix; actor, process, condition, or state of; result of; expresses a state or abnormal condition or process of some disease

Amne(sia) - From modified Latin amnesia, from Ancient Greek ἀμνησία (amnēsia, “forgetfulness”).

AMNE´STIA (ἀμνηστεία）Amnesty is a word used by the later Greek writers, and from them borrowed by the Romans, to describe the act or arrangement by which offences were forgotten, or regarded as if they had not been committed, so that the offender could not be called to account for them.

Indeed, Amnesty is written in the Bible and in the Greek Language as a relation to the Amnio (LAMB and BOWL of Sacrifice).

What is the truth behind this?

The Lamb has the wool pulled over his eyes. We are all the Son of God. Christ is the heel on either side of the loaf of bread.

1 Corinthians 10

And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

Who is the heel? ADAM (ALL MEN from ONE)

1 Corinthians 15

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

The heel crushes Satan's Head (Rulership)

Genesis 3

14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,

“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

Why are we the loaf, as the Son's body, in the water?

Colossians 1

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

The mystery is locked in the lamb and blood of the sacrifice. The temple is our body. The veil is the wool over our eyes. Why? The Shepherd sheers our wool, washes it white as snow, then returns it as our new Robe (Body) and Crown (Mind). You must be born again.

Gospel of the Nazarenes (Lection 88)

12. For by involution and evolution shall the salvation of all the world be accomplished: by the Descent of Spirit into matter, and the Ascent of matter into Spirit through the ages.

Involution is turning in on one's self (within). Compare this to Luke 17:

20 Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

The mystery is locked Hermetically in the symbols. Giving crushes the head of the thief.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

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I seem to think that submission to God comes secondary to realization of the spirit...

Without that realization, there will be lack of belief in God.

How do we believe in the unseen creator of all, if we can't believe in what is unseen within?

Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away.

The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

Originally posted by jiggerj

Where does this leave me according to my own religious beliefs? The same place I started. My aim will be to rise in the water toward the one that attracts me. Christ, no matter how we see Him, is a the point of life. Love others as you love yourself. Judge not unless you judge yourself first. Judge and you will be judged. God keeps no records of wrongs and neither should we.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

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When you say 'judge not', when are we supposed to do this? I mean, if you see a man beating a woman, do you not judge him as violent and seek to stop him from hurting another human being? When you see a drunk driver swerving down the road, shouldn't you judge him as dangerous? I can understand that we shouldn't judge people when they get out of prison so they have the opportunity to start fresh, but there are times when it is more than just harmful to NOT judge people. Wouldn't you agree?

Is the one beating the woman judging himself above her? Who is judged by the actions to hate? Judge and you are judged. Many will be judged. When a person sees the truth, the polarity of these actions begins to change. It must be a gradual movement away from the error. None of us here in the water will accomplish this ourselves. We rise toward the light or spiral down into the darkness further. We are baptized so we can rise. Many will simply choose to sink and drown in the water. We are ALL sinners here in the water. This is the reason we are here. We conquer this when we put ourselves in the only one that can lead us out. This was HIS cup to bear? Why? The Error was in him. Who is Him? The Redeemer, ADAM.

Job 19

25 I know that my redeemer[c] lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.[d]
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[e] in[f] my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!
28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.

If we say, the error is in him, we judge ourselves. We are the loaf. Christ is the heel on either end. ADAM is the heel and you are a slice. Judge Him and you judge yourself. Beat a woman and you beat yourself. Until we find our salvation through the one that leads us out, we are still here baking in the oven.

Read about the baker and the cup bearer.

Genesis 41

HAVE A LISTEN TO THE AUDIO

The two thieves on the cross are pictured here. The one beating his wife is the baker. The cup bearer is the one being beaten.

My Thread on the Symbolism of the Show Lost As I said in the OP, the question is this: Jacob or Esau? Which do you choose to be?

Jacob and Esau are the same person. You are both. You have the same conversation with yourself. Who do you choose? Intellect over emotion or emotion over intellect? Love over hate? Good over evil? Greed over giving? Altruism over Objectivism? Angel of light over Angel of Darkness. You have a choice. All you do is move and think. God does the rest. Developing your faith is his purpose. When His purpose become ours, the will to give and receive manifests the life that comes from sin and death. Love fulfills the law, but faith gets you there.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by EnochWasRight

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I seem to think that submission to God comes secondary to realization of the spirit...

Without that realization, there will be lack of belief in God.

How do we believe in the unseen creator of all, if we can't believe in what is unseen within?

Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away.

The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

Check the end of the post above. What do you see when you look in a mirror? You and your shadow of light. Are you the light or the shadow? If you are not the one in the image, then you are the one casting it. By looking in the image, you know yourself. Light reveals what it hits. True for me and you and all of us. We are ALL the ones casting the image if we are the image of God. We are His Children and His shadow. Jacob and Esau are both of us and we are equally both. Divide the light from the darkness and return to unity. God already made that trip yet never left where he started. We are simply collapsing the same wave within His Story. History is not ours.

Genesis 1

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.

God has already judge us. It's all good. He keeps no records of wrongs. Only we can do that.

reply to post by Akragon

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I seem to think that submission to God comes secondary to realization of the spirit...

Without that realization, there will be lack of belief in God.

How do we believe in the unseen creator of all, if we can't believe in what is unseen within?

Another good answer comes from John 6:

For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

God prepares us. Christ already knows us. We simply need to then know the Father and Son, but it's not up to us.

John 2 says that Christ does not need our testimony.

23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name.[d] 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

Luke 10:22, "All things are delivered (revealed) to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the son, and he to whom the son will reveal him."


It appears we do not know God or the Son yet. I assume our life becomes the reflecting point for the next step in the process. Either we rise to the Spirit and become one with God or we must be born again in the water.

John 3 then goes on to describe this process of being born again so we can be born of the Spirit. I assume many will reject the point of baptism. This goes back to Christ already knowing us to the end. It's His Story and not ours. He has already see it from first to last, yet won't wake to the full realization until the end of the third day when he steps out of the water with the rest of what remains with Him.

6 “Come, let us return to the Lord.
He has torn us to pieces
but he will heal us;
he has injured us
but he will bind up our wounds.
2 After two days he will revive us;
on the third day he will restore us,
that we may live in his presence.
3 Let us acknowledge the Lord;
let us press on to acknowledge him.
As surely as the sun rises,
he will appear;
he will come to us like the winter rains,
like the spring rains that water the earth.”

Epistle of Barnabas 15:4

Give heed, children, what this meaneth; He ended in six days. He meaneth this, that in six thousand years the Lord shall bring all things to an end; for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years; and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of the Lord shall be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end."

2 Days -Adam to Abraham 2000 Years of Age 1 (FATHER)
2 Days -Abraham to Jesus 2000 Years of Age 2 (SON)
2 Days -Jesus to Today 2000 Years of Age 3 (HOLY SPIRIT)
1 Day -Day of Rest (Day of the Lord) 1000 years (SALVATION)
-------
7 Days (7000 years - Approximately 6000 have passed)

Genesis 6

6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

120 years X 50 Jubilee years is 6000 years. This is a dispensation of time for Adam. What comes during the next dispensation and what came before ours? Infinity is infinite. We are finite and there can never be a finite number of infinite things, nor can there be an infinite number of finite things. In the end, we rise with unity or are cast into separation from it.

This is why I made this thread: Work Out your Salvation with Fear and Trembling

Jesus said, "Do not fear." We can trust HIM to bear the cup. We simply receive the gift. I take solace in this. Of course, we do not know God until we do. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't feel that He is clearly seen from this life. What comes next may clarify this fully.

1 Corinthians 13

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

I'm still a child.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

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Check the end of the post above. What do you see when you look in a mirror? You and your shadow of light. Are you the light or the shadow? If you are not the one in the image, then you are the one casting it. By looking in the image, you know yourself. Light reveals what it hits. True for me and you and all of us. We are ALL the ones casting the image if we are the image of God. We are His Children and His shadow. Jacob and Esau are both of us and we are equally both. Divide the light from the darkness and return to unity. God already made that trip yet never left where he started. We are simply collapsing the same wave within His Story. History is not ours.

I was with you until you used genesis...

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

And he said let us create man in "our" image... God has no equal... and surely we are not the image of him...

God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.

More over he said, I create the light and the dark... good and evil... where as God has no darkness, and so called "evil can not touch him"

"It is he who exists as God and Father of everything, the invisible One who is above everything, who exists as incorruption, which is in the pure light into which no eye can look."

God has already judge us. It's all good. He keeps no records of wrongs. Only we can do that.

Which I agree with... unfortunately this God of the OT keeps records of any and all wrongs... and takes revenge for all wrongs.

It appears we do not know God or the Son yet.

Some do...

I assume our life becomes the reflecting point for the next step in the process. Either we rise to the Spirit and become one with God or we must be born again in the water.

I tend to believe we will become one with God eventually regardless... some just take longer to get there and must be Born again.... and again... until they figure it out so to speak

This is why I made this thread: Work Out your Salvation with Fear and Trembling

I don't believe fear of God is necessary at all... but I do understand where it comes from...

Most of the OT is about Fear of this God... but I do not fear him... he is a coward, hiding all these years in a book written millenia ago... but since the invention of the internet, he can be exposed

Jesus said, "Do not fear."

Exactly!!

I'm still a child.

Verily HE said unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

reply to post by Akragon

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I've shown this before, but my perspective shows clearly that the LORD you want to deny in the OT, is the Son being raised. It's all of us. Realize that there are two creation stories. Genesis 1 is paradise and the IMAGE of archetypes. Genesis 2 is the rendering of the image by the SON. Just as we are the catalog of souls from one, Creation is the catalog of archetypes from one God. Unity expresses itself into multiplicity to raise the child. When you view the OT story to Christ, you are seeing God raise His Son and the story is His as well. It's HisStory. Involution of spirit into matter is a story we experience as characters in that story. We are being raised with the Son back to unity.

You see error in the image for the same reason you see it in yourself. We are the image of God. The one bringing order from Chaos is the one that knows why it is necessary. Why is it necessary? Apart from error, there can be no reflection of God in an image. Otherwise, God simply looks at a copy of himself. For there to be an image different from Himself, that image must be immersed into division. It returns by choice as something different than the original, yet containing the truth of what was found.

It's about fellowship. Infinity cannot stop expanding. God is always what is possible and known. We can only rise to this, yet never surpass that event horizon. Not even close. Until we emerge into paradise as a new creation, we are in the water of error. The reason for the water is to cleanse what returns. The temple is where the sacrifice takes place. Water cleanses this process and returns the sacrifice back to the Priest who oversees the process.

The veil over the temple keeps the Priest in the vision of both sides. The ones with the wool over their eyes is the one the priest (Shepherd) is raising to truth behind the veil. We cannot know one side of the veil apart from fully seeing the other. The priest must walk both sides.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

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I do love your explanations but do you realize saying Jesus was the OT God, you're convicting him of all the atrocities of that so called God

S&F for your effort and your thread...

But the OT God is not Jesus, or anything close...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by EnochWasRight

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I do love your explanations but do you realize saying Jesus was the OT God, you're convicting him of all the atrocities of that so called God

S&F for your effort and your thread...

But the OT God is not Jesus, or anything close...

edit on 9-2-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

I can make this claim for one very good reason. The first soul to inhabit the Earth was Adam. From Adam, we see mankind split into two. From the two came ALL other men. We are ALL Adam. I can't claim to know the Son or the Father. None of us can. We also have trouble conceptualizing what is going on because we have no frame of reference to reflect on for what a Spirit entity is. The powers and principalities of Creation are not something we have an opposite to compare. This is true. We do, however, know the entire stories from OT to NT are connected. Children must be raised and the Son of God requires more than one person to experience infinity. In fact, it appears he needs an entire universe of souls living out lives to know the entire story. Infinity is large and our sense of moral obligation and ethics in no way discounts what the OT stands for. To simply dismiss it out of hand would be incorrect.

God is one. We come from a single source. I will agree with you that the OT Lord had gaping flaws. This is what I would expect of a Son being raised. Then again, we have the fallen 'sons' of God mentioned in many other places, including the OT. Again, nothing we can take pride in knowing as a reference. We simply note that it is written in scripture. We DO, however, have verification from history that all of it took place. It's hidden from our perception (Veiled) as it should be. We are held harmless because of this fact. It has been my contention that the Bible is not written for us, but to the Angels. Revelation, for instance, is reflected in this fact. The letters are to the Angels of Asia Minor and the Angels of the Churches. The fact that it is wrapped in enigma and mathematics only shows this to be true.

Again, we go back to powers and principalities beyond our scope of perception. We don't know. I choose not to judge it. I do choose to piece it together if possible. You can't have the NT apart for the OT. They are woven together with more than one thread.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

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They are woven together with more than one thread.

That just might be the problem... the ties that bind the old and the new...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by EnochWasRight

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They are woven together with more than one thread.

That just might be the problem... the ties that bind the old and the new...

God said not to mix threads. Genesis 6 is an outline of why we are limited to 6000 years. The fallen beings mixed destinies with ours. We get this from the Virgin of the World document. The Archons were told to stay put. What did they do? The exact opposite, just like man. We were told not to eat. What did we do? What all children do. The opposite of what we are told.

"Then, having summoned to these splendid regions of ether the souls of every
grade, He said to them: "O souls, beautiful children of my breath and of my care, you
whom I have produced with my hands, in order to consecrate you to my universe, hear
my words as a law: – Quit not the place assigned to you by my will. The abode which
awaits you is heaven, with its galaxy of stars and its thrones of virtue. If you attempt
any transgression against my decree, I swear by my sacred breath, by that elixir of
which I formed you, and by my creative hands, that I will speedily forge for you chains
and cast you into punishment."

LINK

"And what did the souls do, O my Mother? And Isis answered: – They took the
mingled material, O my Son Horos, and began to reflect thereon, and to adore this
combination, the work of the Father. Next, they sought to discover of what it was
composed, which, indeed, it was not easy to find. Then, fearing
(p. 8)
that this search might excite the anger of the Father, they set themselves to carry out
His commands. Therefore, taking the upper portion of the protoplasm, that which was
lightest, they created of it the race of birds. The compound having now become more
compact and assuming a denser consistency, they formed of it the quadrupeds; while
of the thickest part which needed a moist vehicle for its support, they made fishes. The
remainder, being cold and heavy, was employed by the souls in the creation of reptiles.
Forthwith, O my Son, proud of their work, they were not afraid to transgress the
Divine law, and, in spite of the prohibition, they receded from their appointed limits. Not
willing to remain longer in the same abode, they moved ceaselessly, and repose
seemed to them death. "

Like I said, there are many gaps in this story and an entire realm of existence we do not grasp. Do I believe this document to be a good source of information? I am not sure. I do know I read some of the same elements in this that I get from all other sources, including the Bible. Assuming the Bible was written by those closer to these events, I must assume they had source documents as originals. Apart from seeing prophecy happen around me, I would not believe any of it. Knowing that our history was predicted to the letter, I understand there is much more to the story than we can comprehend. We can't take away the OT. It's encoded with the same symbolism as the rest. Moses was schooled in Egypt. What else would we expect from a scribe of God? Symbols hermetically seal the hidden nature of what is written.

The SAME symbols in the NT are the ones from the OT and Egypt, Sumeria and the entire world, both East and West. Our version of these events in the Church totally ignore the reference materials outside the Bible that explain the rest. I am on the path to finding the connections. I don't judge it and I most surly do not discount anything I can find to help me see beyond the limit of 66 books.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

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Why do you seem to believe we cannot overcome all obstacles by the power of the Cross in Christ? I literally gave all I have to people who were in need. I put myself in the smallest room in the house that I own, but am negative on, completely fixed up my ex/wives house, and left myself living paycheck to paycheck. I did this because it was the right thing to do.

ALL sin can be defeated, maybe not by our own power, but by the power of Christ in us. Christ will teach us how to overcome all sin. ALL sin can be defeated.

I don't say the things I say to brag, I am simply sharing my testimony where it is relevant to others. Anyone can give their lives to Christ and loose themselves in the pursuit of him.

Colossians 3:3
3 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

Once your life is hidden in Christ, it is the character of Christ that appears. You can submit to him, he will teach you himself. It is only when Christ has appeared in one's life that they may be certain that they can do the things he did. Because if Christ is in me it is no longer me but the spirit in me that does the work.
You can become free from ALL sin.

John 8:34, 36 Whosoever 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

I John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Rom. 6:16-18 16 Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. 17 Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. 18 Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.

I John 5:4 4 For every child of God defeats this evil world, and we achieve this victory through our faith.

1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

You have to believe in the verses above, they are the key to understanding. It doesn't matter if it makes since just have faith. The passages are clear and I am witness that they are true. He loves us this much to spiritually put us back in the Garden of Eden so we can walk with him like Adam before he sinned.

This is the extent of Grace, knowledge plus the power to choose. Without Grace we can have knowledge but we cannot overcome. Through the promise that brings us back to the garden comes the knowledge with how to stay in God's presence. David walked with God his whole life until Bathsheba, and he was punished and God returned to him.

As long as we are in our sin we are following after the whore/Bathsheba and walk in God's wrath. When we repent and turn away from sin we come back into the Grace of God. If we fully repent, which is the only acceptable sacrifice, as the penalty of death has already been paid, we are reborn capable of defeating sin in a way that was not previously revealed to us.

I'm not saying believe me, I'm asking you to believe what the scripture plainly says, without need for any special interpretation.

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