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The Sabbath

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posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by mplsfitter539
Do you honestly believe that God created 90% of the human race just so He could torture them in hell for all eternity?

I'm not aware of anything in the Bible that says God tortures anyone, I'm not sure where you came up with that idea.


Romans 5
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

I personally agree with the Catholic and Arminian belief that, while Christ came for all men (as noted in your quote,) all men also have the ability to reject him. Universal salvation says that one cannot reject him (not "will not", but the non-willful cannot,) which is in opposition of free will (so it's really more of an Arminian thing than Catholic, I suppose.)

While I think universal salvation would be peachy, I believe it is a very dangerous thing to promote, as, if you're wrong, you're not just wrong for yourself (assuming that you don't get saved) but for everyone that you've taught that behaviours and beliefs don't matter.




posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by mplsfitter539
Do you honestly believe that God created 90% of the human race just so He could torture them in hell for all eternity?

I'm not aware of anything in the Bible that says God tortures anyone, I'm not sure where you came up with that idea.


Romans 5
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

I personally agree with the Catholic and Arminian belief that, while Christ came for all men (as noted in your quote,) all men also have the ability to reject him. Universal salvation says that one cannot reject him (not "will not", but the non-willful cannot,) which is in opposition of free will (so it's really more of an Arminian thing than Catholic, I suppose.)

While I think universal salvation would be peachy, I believe it is a very dangerous thing to promote, as, if you're wrong, you're not just wrong for yourself (assuming that you don't get saved) but for everyone that you've taught that behaviours and beliefs don't matter.

Ok lets focus on your statement about free-will. Where did you get the idea that anyone has free will. You won't find anything about free will in the bible. And I agree Universal Restoration is peachy!!! Jesus Christ has already saved us from ourselves. That is why its called Grace and a free Gift. This doesn't mean people will not be accountable it just means that the church should not be preaching hellfire and brimstone and never ending punishment. That's wrong and the bible doesn't say that, you even agree about that. The best information available about Universal Restoration is here tentmaker.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink">tentmaker.org... I could go on and on about it but if you are interested in learning more about it just go to tentmaker Gary Amirault does a great job of explaining it. The un-safe thing to teach people are doctrines and creeds that are not in the bible. Love never fails!!!!!!



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by mplsfitter539
 


I agree we dont have free will to do as we like. We still have to obay the 10 commandments.

If some never bother to fallow Gods 10 commandments are they still going to be saved?



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by mplsfitter539
 


I agree we dont have free will to do as we like. We still have to obay the 10 commandments.

If some never bother to fallow Gods 10 commandments are they still going to be saved?



Yes, salvation is a free gift that Christ paid for with His blood. He paid for all sin in full so in a sense you could say we are already saved. Saved from what though. We are justified through Christ and the work on the cross. We become sanctified through obedience. Then finally we are glorified when we receive our glorified bodies. Its a process that progresses through the ages of time. This age is for achieving sanctification. You must be justified and sanctified to become glorified. There are three main feasts that Israel celebrated the first on is Passover which signifies justification. The second one is Pentecost which signifies sanctification and finally Tabernacles which signifies glorification. Each feast was to teach Israel something about the process.

edit on 14-3-2013 by mplsfitter539 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by mplsfitter539
 



Originally posted by mplsfitter539
Where did you get the idea that anyone has free will.

Well, you're new to ATS, so I suppose that you don't know what most people who are frequenters of the religious forums' perspectives here are. Mine is a reasoned faith, not a revealed one, so I don't generally rely on Biblical quotes for my point of view. However, there are plenty as regards free will, such as:


Now choose life, so that you and your children may live and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. (Deuteronomy 30:19-20 NIV)

The term "choose life" is pretty indicative of there being a choice -- go with God, or not, it's your choice.

Do you believe that God doesn't want your voluntary love? That he'd prefer to force people to love him? In the Arminian vs. Reformed debate, it seems a bit bizarre to align oneself with Reformed, and yet refute the five points of Calvinism.



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 12:02 AM
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Freewill exists within your personal bubble however with an omnicient "God" freewill is not really possible. If God already knows the beginning to end then he knows the outcome and how you will choose. It only appears to be freewill to us because we lack the ability to see the future. Every decision appears to be freewill however it's not, God already knows the outcome, there was only one choice you could make anyway.

That is IF you believe that God is all knowing. Predestination is found in many places of the bible.



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by favouriteslave
Freewill exists within your personal bubble however with an omnicient "God" freewill is not really possible. If God already knows the beginning to end then he knows the outcome and how you will choose. It only appears to be freewill to us because we lack the ability to see the future. Every decision appears to be freewill however it's not, God already knows the outcome, there was only one choice you could make anyway.

Foreknowledge is not causal, which is what you're implying.

You have free will, God's omniscience simply is him knowing what decision you will make, but it is still your decision to make. To lack free will, God's knowledge would have to cause your decision, which is not the case.



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by favouriteslave
Freewill exists within your personal bubble however with an omnicient "God" freewill is not really possible. If God already knows the beginning to end then he knows the outcome and how you will choose. It only appears to be freewill to us because we lack the ability to see the future. Every decision appears to be freewill however it's not, God already knows the outcome, there was only one choice you could make anyway.

Foreknowledge is not causal, which is what you're implying.

You have free will, God's omniscience simply is him knowing what decision you will make, but it is still your decision to make. To lack free will, God's knowledge would have to cause your decision, which is not the case.


It sure is the case. God already knows every little detail taking place. It is mentioned in the Bible a few times. Jesus also knew, he even told a cople of hes desciples; how they were going to betray him, and jesus used details.

There are also a few time lines mentioned. They all tell details about the future.



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by favouriteslave
Freewill exists within your personal bubble however with an omnicient "God" freewill is not really possible. If God already knows the beginning to end then he knows the outcome and how you will choose. It only appears to be freewill to us because we lack the ability to see the future. Every decision appears to be freewill however it's not, God already knows the outcome, there was only one choice you could make anyway.

Foreknowledge is not causal, which is what you're implying.

You have free will, God's omniscience simply is him knowing what decision you will make, but it is still your decision to make. To lack free will, God's knowledge would have to cause your decision, which is not the case.


It sure is the case. God already knows every little detail taking place. It is mentioned in the Bible a few times.

It is concretely described in Psalm 139, among other places, but, again, foreknowledge is not causal.



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Leuan
I am confused. Which is the correct day for the sabbath? Which day needs our rest?

Friday 6 pm- Sat 6 pm

Sunday 12 am- 6 pm

monday 12am- 6pm

Everyday 12am-12pm

Labor day


Jesus Christ is our Sabbath. He is our day of rest.

I have followed the sabbath protocols before. I warn you; if you attempt to keep them, you will be put under the law, and your help will not be found. It is a fact, and I am living proof of the fact.

Respect NO day, but resting a day of the week is indeed good for the flesh. But our rest is in the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Spirit, because He fights the battles that we cannot fight, and He feeds us what we cannot feed ourselves, and He brings us into the Kingdom of God; a place we could never reach even if we could traverse the universe.

Let no man fool you. I urge you. There is freedom in the Lord because He fulfilled the law. There is no freedom in going back to a dead law. It makes you deader than dead; it is the blackest night, and you will stumble at every move you make.

You have been warned.



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by Leuan
I am confused. Which is the correct day for the sabbath? Which day needs our rest?

Friday 6 pm- Sat 6 pm

Sunday 12 am- 6 pm

monday 12am- 6pm

Everyday 12am-12pm

Labor day


The 7th day Sabbath is the Sabbath of the Eternal, it is set aside for Holy use and purpose forever and throughout all generations as a sign/mark/symbol that you are God's people.

The 7th day begins at sunset on Friday night, and ends at sunset Saturday night. Depending on the time of year, that minute changes, but it always begins the moment the sun is no longer visable in the sky on Friday night, and always end the moent the sun is no longer visable Saturday night.

The Sabbath is the "test" commandment God has used throughot scripture to "test" the obdience of His people. It began in Sinai when God commanded the Israelites to NOT gather mana on the 7th day, and that if any did; they would die (because they sinned against the Eternal). That ancient physical example was given to teach a spiritual lesson. If you do not set the 7th day aside for Holy use and purpose, you are living in sin, and the wages for sin is death spiritually.

The Sabbath is also required for entry into the Millenial reign of Jesus Christ and the 144,000 member Kingdom of God on Earth, to be established shortly as the end of this age come to fruition. For the 7th day Sabbath is the Millenium!

"6 days mankind shall do their own work, but the 7th day is the Sabbath of/for the Eternal."

"a day is as to 1000 years to teh Eternal"

6000 years, during the age of mankind's self rule apart from the laws of God, mankind was allowed to design their own governments, religions, traditions, cultures and ways of life; they were free to choose for themselves what is right and what is wrong (good and evil), for the purpose of prooving that all ways of life apart fromt eh ways of the Eternal lead to pain, suffering, violence and death; the world you live in right now is the PROOF of an age designed apart from the ways of God.

But the 7th 1000 years (7th "day") is set aside for Holy use and purpose by the Eternal God of all creation. During the 7th 1000 years God's ways will become our ways, we will learn from God's governement (Kingdom of God) the way of life which leads to everlasting peace, in complete and total contrast to the age of mankind's self rule we are living in today.

That is the purpose of a 7th day Sabbath, as God had planned beofore anything came into existance, in order to create a family (reproduce his way of thinking, character, mind) in the spiritual image of Elohim (the God Family).

You MUST come to embrace the 7th day Sabbath, in order to enter into the TRUE 7th day Sabbath which is the millenial reign of Jesus Christ and the 144,000 members of the Elohim of God, Kingdom of God, Temple of God, Mountain of God.

Scripture defines the 7th day Sabbath as the "mark" of God to be placed in ones forehead (thoughts) and right hands (actions, driven by thoughts); because they live God's rest week by week, and understand the plan of God for the creation of Elohim in physical mankind.

God Bless,



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by punisher97
Romans 14:5-6
" One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God."

This is why it doesn't really matter what day a person celebrates as the Sabbath. Even though it was and still is Saturday, it doesn't really matter.


These verses are referring to which days are best to sancify a fast on (obstaining from food, in order to draw closer to God). Notice the mention of eating food vs. not eating food. Read all the chapter, understand what Paul was addressing and why, and not just the few words your pastor taught you is justification for thebreaking of an Eternal commandment of God.

The Church of God at Rome was arguing amounst themselfs which day of the week was best to fast on, not which one is holy.

God Bless,



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by MrBigDave
Christians are not bound by the law and are not bound by the observance of the sabbath. The bible actually talks about the Holy Spirit being our "Rest"


The sacrificial system under the control of the Levites was down away with at Christ's death, because those laws were to physically represent what Jesus Christ would later fulfil as the passover lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

The law of God (10 commandments, Annual Sabbaths, Dietary Laws etc.) are Eternal commandments to be kept forever.

WWJD?

WDJD! (What DID Jesus do)

1. Kept a 7th day Sabbath
2. Kept the annual Sabbaths of the Eternal

Jesus Christ lived a PERFECT life, served as the example of how to live your life before God, and we are told as His followers to "let this mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus".

God Bless,



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by Leuan

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr
reply to post by Leuan
 


I fail to get your meaning. Care to explain?


Not really but I'll humor you.
Yes the original sabbath is friday to saturday, however it's clear that we're not to follow the old testament laws, for various reasons that I'll leave out. This is no place to discuss it, as I have learned.

Alot of the teachings have been altered, here's an axhandle:
"Thou shall not kill"
Have you stepped outside lately? If so, you're a sinner according to the false interpreters of this commandment. Everytime you step on the grass, you kill. Are you going to hell for it?

Some people think so.
This whole sunday worship thing is an invention of scared people who don't want to give up power to the truth


The word translated as "kill" in your example is the hebrew word for "murder of a human being". It specifically refers to the intentional taking of another man's life. You are using the English word "kill" and it's varias interpretations to misuse scripture. The hebrew word is murder, man vs. man.

Also your understanding of Hell is not in line with scripture truth.

God Bless,



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by SkyLiner
Are we now to forget the only Commandment that begins with the word "Remember"..?

Are we now to fixate on the only Commandment which is not repeated in the New Testament?


In Revelation, the Church of God today is described in scripture written by John (New Testament author) as those who "keep the commandments of the Eternal".

They are not described as those who keep 9 of the 10 commandments of the Eternal, all except the one you were told to remember and were told was a "sign/mark/symbol" that you follow God.

In more then 10 examples the New Testament Church is describes as those who faithfully keep the commandments of God. Which ones?

ALL 10 COMMANDMENTS!

James 2 (New Testament)
"10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.


For He that said thou shall not kill also said to remember the Sabbath of the Eternal to keep it Holy as a sign forever that you are my people and I am your God.

John 14 (New Testament)
"12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also;"

Jesus kept a 7th day Sabbath. The works that He did you should do also.

John 14 (New Testament)
"15 If ye love me, keep my commandments."...

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him....

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me."


And the word (logos) which you hear is not mine (independent of God/against God), but my Father's word (logos) which sent me (in agreement with God).

If you have ears to hear.

God Bless,



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by SkyLiner
 


Unless you follow Judaic Sabbath Law in every aspect (not just the "it has to be on this 24 hour period",) then his warning has absolutely no bearing. So it is obviously intended for those Jews who follow the Law (the people who were listening to him,) not for Gentiles who do not.

If you travel to go to worship services at your SDA church, then you can travel in order to flee to the mountains.

The Jews had defiled their Sabbath in Jesus' day, he told them they were in error in how they kept it. Why would God's people use them as an example of how to keep Gods law. The Jews failed to keep God's laws in spirit and in truth.

Traveling to fellowship with brethren on the Sabbath day is what Jesus and His diciples did, and the Church of God does to this day.

Using the failed example of Jewish obidience to God's laws has nothing to do with God's truth and way of life to live in which Jesus was the example of.

God Bless,



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by spy66
 


Sunday isn't the Jewish Sabbath.

You want to worship on the Jewish Sabbath, knock yourself out. You want to do it because it's the Jewish Sabbath, then you proclaim yourself under the Law, and you'll be judged by it. That's what the Bible says, and all the rules you'll want to brush up on are in there, as well.

The Sabbath is the Eternal's. It does not belong to the jews, it belongs to God.

God Bless,



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by ElohimJD
 

You are casting a stumbling block before the children of God. You may not be meaning to do it, but you are.

The 10 commandments of the old testament have nothing to do with Obeying the commandments of God.

Jesus gave two New commandments, which are LIKE the other 10:

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, and all your soul. And the second is like it, to love your neighbor as you love yourself.

And upon the gentiles, NO OTHER BURDEN was given other than these:

To abstain from blood, from eating things strangled, from things sacrificed to idols, and from fornication.

The Holy Spirit saw NO OTHER BURDEN to lay upon the gentiles. And yet, they were grafted in, and yet, it has now been 2 thousand years that this tree has grown with the gentiles being largest part, and today, the ONLY part of the church.

Of course, in order to love God, you must also love your neighbor. But Jesus did not "keep" the Sabbath as you would put it, because HE IS the Sabbath. Or else why were people allowed to pick their food and eat with Him? Why were people told to pick up their bed and travel? Why were people made whole? Think man!

Remember what Jesus said? "Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."

WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING GOOD EVERYDAY. Don't you see it yet?

JESUS CHRIST is our mark! He is our seal of the living God! Not a stupid day! You worship a DAY. But Jesus Christ is our eternity! There will be "no more days" at the End; He says it, so why don't you believe it?

We will not be respecting a 24 hour Sabbath in the New World. You have got to be kidding if you really think that! (I don't know how I ever did think that!)

We will be respecting the Lord Jesus Christ, who is our Rest. He said He was, so why don't you believe it?

As well, you should really inspect all of the other laws that the Seventh-day denominations want their followers to respect. The prophecies aren't even figured out properly! And how many times do the Seventh-day denominations get predictions and things wrong?

I have nothing against you all. I am sorry for y'all for the amount of pain that you are going through, because I know the pain. It's a foolish pain, but it's something we did to ourselves. Also, when faced with realizing that you are hopeless to save yourself, and it feels like there is no hope for you, instead of turning to the grace and mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ, we instead seek to find a way that we can be justified by our works... WOW. How stupid we have been! We are never, ever justified by our works. Our righteousness is like rags before the Lord. What can we possibly do?

Get away Satan, and get YOUR sabbath out of our faces. You cause men to stumble, and to fear, and to greatly fear, and push men to the point where they question their sanity, and their salvation. It's utter foolishness to which we should not abide!

And I will repeat for those false teachers that claim that Sunday replaced the Sabbath. You're also out of your minds! WE ARE TO RESPECT NO DAY; we are to put our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, our Rest.

There is nothing wrong with fellowship. If there are a group of true Christians anywhere large enough and bold enough to meet and have fellowship, by all means! That is only a good thing! "For wherever two or three are gathered together in my Name, there I am in the midst."

And do you think Jesus Christ, who says that His burden is LIGHT, would cast a stumbling block before us; would cast us into a society where we would have no freedom to do work? Aren't all of our works supposed to be good works? Do you not understand it yet?

Did Jesus Christ teach "Well, come to me sometimes, when you wanna do good works. But then go and be your bad self and do your bad works. And then come back to me and do some more good works." Is that not what is implied by saying that Jesus said, "It is lawful to do well on the Sabbath," and then in the same breath say that we should "respect the sabbath day above the other days, to do well on it"?

When Isaiah was prophesying concerning the Sabbath, He was prophesying of our Lord Jesus Christ. Don't you see? To turn our foot away from OUR OWN WORKS (THE LAW) and to respect the Sabbath of our Lord (JESUS CHRIST).

Why would you WANT to be in bondage?

OH wait, I remember.

Jesus told us why we wanted to be in bondage; the same reason the Jews ENJOYED being in their bondage. It made them feel like they had control over their salvation; as if their works mattered even for a second.

Do you not remember the parable of the wine and the wine skins? The new garment and the old garment and the patch that would not agree?

You're in a hopeless state, you who call yourself Elohim. So hopeless. I am sorry for you. And I implore you to get out of it and to seek Grace and Mercy of the Lord. Turn from YOUR works.



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by TarzanBeta
 



"The 10 commandments of the old testament have nothing to do with Obeying the commandments of God.

Jesus gave two New commandments, which are LIKE the other 10:

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, and all your soul. And the second is like it, to love your neighbor as you love yourself."


Thank you for bringing these verses to the discussion.

God gave the 10 commandments to mankind, the first 4 teach you how to love God, according to God's words, God's instructions, God's commands (not mankind's).

The 4th commandment is part of God telling his followers how to love Him in spirit and in truth.

The last 6 commandments teach mankind how to love each other as themselves.

When Jesus Christ said these words he was referring to the 10 commandments, which can be broken down into 2 categories; "how to love God", "how to love your follow man".


Of course, in order to love God, you must also love your neighbor. But Jesus did not "keep" the Sabbath as you would put it, because HE IS the Sabbath. Or else why were people allowed to pick their food and eat with Him? Why were people told to pick up their bed and travel? Why were people made whole? Think man!

Remember what Jesus said? "Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."


Correct, Jesus was explaining why the jews of his day didn't understand how to keep a Sabbath in spirit and in truth.

I never said you have to keep the 7th day Sabbath in the manner a jew does, but the manner Christ did in spirit and in truth.


We will not be respecting a 24 hour Sabbath in the New World. You have got to be kidding if you really think that!


You will not make it into the New World without the 7th Day Sabbath. God will proove this in His perfect timing to you.


As well, you should really inspect all of the other laws that the Seventh-day denominations want their followers to respect. The prophecies aren't even figured out properly! And how many times do the Seventh-day denominations get predictions and things wrong?


I am in the Church of God, the Temple of God, the Body of Christ. I am not a 7th day adventist, nor do I concern myself with their "prophecies".

CONCLUSION

I appreciate your verve to communicate what you think is right (good) to someone you think needs your words. But I follow the commandments of the Eternal, regardless of the reasoning of a man and what he thinks is right.

God's word defines good, not yours; and God's word is His commandments. God's scripture tells you how to love Him (commandments 1-4) and how to love one another (commandments 5-10).

Shortly God will reveal what is true to all mankind as He establishes is Sabbath begining on Pentecost.

God Bless,




edit on 15-3-2013 by ElohimJD because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 04:48 PM
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Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Do as you see fit. Don't cast your stumbling blocks before my brothers and sisters. If it is good to you, then keep it. Don't convince others of it, those to whom it does not belong. You will be the root of much suffering if you continue to do it. If you care about your brothers and sisters, you will heed my words.

And if you want an understanding of prophecy, I will share a little with you; in hopes that you are one of God's children, and I hope you are, very much so.


A little prophecy



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