The Sabbath

reply to post by LazarusTsiyr


I know that English is not a foreign language for you, so I don't know why you're having such a hard time with a fairly simple concept. But let me add some underlining to the text of the Catechism I referred you to earlier, which you either didn't read or didn't understand:

Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath

Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.

The celebration of Christ's resurrection on Sunday "replaces" the Jewish Sabbath, it doesn't "change" the Jewish Sabbath.

For observant Jews and non-Christians who wish to live under Judaic Law, which apparently includes you, the Jewish Sabbath and all other aspects of the Law are exactly what they were before the time of Christ -- as he said, he came to fulfill the Law, not to overturn it.

Originally posted by adjensen


For observant Jews and non-Christians who wish to live under Judaic Law, which apparently includes you,

Wrong. I'm not an observant Jew or a non-Christian who lives under Judaic Law. So you are wrong in your assumption about me. I believe in the Scriptures from beginning to end. I just don't believe in Christianity which contradicts the Scriptures.

Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.

The celebration of Christ's resurrection on Sunday "replaces" the Jewish Sabbath, it doesn't "change" the Jewish Sabbath.

Exactly. It replaces it. That means the same thing! The Christian Sabbath, the false pagan Sabbath, is on Sunday! And this "replacement" (read as Change) was instituted by the pagan Catholic Church.

I never said that they said the Jewish Shabbat is Sunday. There is only one Shabbat. That's the one found in the Law. Catholics and Christians are violating the Law by proclaiming Sunday, "The Lord's Day." Sunday was changed to the Sabbath by the Catholics in order to appease pagans and convert them. Learn your history, man.

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr
Wrong. I'm not an observant Jew or a non-Christian who lives under Judaic Law. So you are wrong in your assumption about me. I believe in the Scriptures from beginning to end. I just don't believe in Christianity which contradicts the Scriptures.

Kindly provide a New Testament scriptural quote which demands that the Jewish Sabbath must continue to be observed.

To claim that celebrating the resurrection of Christ "contradicts the Scriptures," while demanding a slavish adherence to the Jewish Law, demonstrates a complete lack on understanding of what he came to do and taught while he was here.

reply to post by adjensen


No, you are the one who is misunderstanding the Scriptures. I already provided examples of the Law being upheld. The Shabbat is part of the Law which was not abolished. But keep trying to personally attack me and my understanding so that you can selfishly adhere to your non-Biblical teachings.

I'm done. You want Scripture, here ya go:

14“Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.15“Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.

- Matthew 10

I come only to speak truth to those who are willing to listen. Those who want to do nothing but ignore, antagonize, condescend, insult, and personally attack? I shake the dust from my feet. On Judgment Day the Most High will deal with your transgressions and false beliefs and will judge accordingly. It's not my place to make judgment on you. I pray that the Most High softens your heart and one day you fully accept the true message of the Gospel, not this modernized, Westernized, blasphemous version of "Christianity" that is prevalent in society today which teaches false doctrines and is rife with paganism.

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr

14“Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.15“Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.

- Matthew 10

Where does that say anything about the Sabbath?

Jesus is telling the disciples that he's sending out that anyone who refuses the Gospel is to be ignored. If anything, that's in support of what I'm saying, since the Gospel was all about freeing people from the confines of the Law, not adhering to it.

I come only to speak truth to those who are willing to listen.

You must have pretty weak convictions if your response to any reasoned questioning of it is to scuttle off.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr

14“Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.15“Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.

- Matthew 10

Where does that say anything about the Sabbath?

Are you kidding me?! That verse wasn't about the Shabbat! It was about Jesus instructing us to stop trying to teach people who refuse to listen!

Jesus is telling the disciples that he's sending out that anyone who refuses the Gospel is to be ignored. If anything, that's in support of what I'm saying, since the Gospel was all about freeing people from the confines of the Law, not adhering to it.

No, it wasn't. You really don't know your Bible. Or you just go by what they tell you on Sundays or in your little Bible studies.

You must have pretty weak convictions if your response to any reasoned questioning of it is to scuttle off.

*Yawn* another personal attack. Par for the course. No, I'm "scuttling off" because I'm doing what the Scriptures say. You are not open to the true Gospel message, so I'm shaking your dust from my feet.

Here's another one for you:

14Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching will spread like gangrene.

[...]

23Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24And the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

- 2 Timothy 2

You'd do well to learn the Word.

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr
Are you kidding me?! That verse wasn't about the Shabbat! It was about Jesus instructing us to stop trying to teach people who refuse to listen!

Well, what I asked you for was Scriptural support for your claim that Christians are required to honour the Jewish Sabbath, as you have provided none so far, and the major proponents of such are the Seventh Day Adventists, who were founded by the failed prophet and plagiarizer Ellen White, out of the failed prophecies of another kook, William Miller. I don't look to failed "prophets" for my Biblical insights, sorry.

So, without Scriptural support to back you up, and the clear evidence that I've provided you that the Catholic Church did not "change the Sabbath", it seems like you're the one who is having a hard time listening. I, however, do not lose hope in the education of others

*Yawn* another personal attack.

Crying that you're being "personally attacked", when you've done the same thing repeatedly is hypocritical, don't you think?

Just take one day of the week off and rest. it keeps us sane. It helps to give thanks to all of nature that provides our food and beauty and also to the god of your choice for giving us a chance to experience life.

reply to post by adjensen


Already posted support. Apparently you don't read. I'm tired of repeating myself to people. Last time. You can go back and look. I posted how Jesus didn't abolish the law but fulfilled it. The Law that he fulfilled was the Sacrificial Law. He also said not one jot nor tittle of the Law would pass from the Law until all is fulfilled. That means the End Times and everything.

ETA:

Crying that you're being "personally attacked", when you've done the same thing repeatedly is hypocritical, don't you think?

Perhaps. At least I can admit it. I'm not arrogant enough to keep denying what I've done. You personally attack and instead of acknowledging it and/or apologizing (I really don't care if you do) you try to flip it around onto me. You deflect onto me.

reply to post by Garkiniss


The early christians DID NOT gobble up and adopt pagan religions
and customs.The roman emperor Constantine combined the two
religions together.That is why christians are unknowingly celebrating
pagan holidays and think they are christian.Examples...
1.Christmas is pagan with the decorated tree and the yule log.
2.Easter is a pagan fertility festival.
The true sabbath is from sunset friday to sunset saturday.Sunday is
the first day of the week!

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr
reply to post by adjensen

 

Already posted support.

All you posted was the surrounding story of Jesus' "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath", along with:

What he was actually saying was the Shabbat, Fri sunset to Sat sunset, was made for man. It was designated as a day of rest for man, but it also wasn't to be a burden. The Pharisees had made the Shabbat day of rest into a burden with all of their excessive rules and regulations.

Nowhere did Jesus rescind that Saturday (Fri sunset to Sat sunset) was the Shabbat.

Which isn't support of anything, since what you cited is NOT Jesus saying "You have to obey the Sabbath Law", which is what I asked you to demonstrate, and you've failed to do.

He also said not one jot nor tittle of the Law would pass from the Law until all is fulfilled.

Once again, no one (well, no one in this discussion) is claiming that the Law no longer exists, but you don't seem to understand what Christ came to do, and that he DID fulfill the Law -- no waiting for "the end times", because if that was the case, you'd still be under the Law now, and that means condemnation.

It is frequently argued that if Jesus did not “abolish” the law, then it must still be binding. Accordingly, such components as the Sabbath-day requirement must be operative still, along with perhaps numerous other elements of the Mosaic Law. This assumption is grounded in a misunderstanding of the words and intent of this passage. Christ did not suggest here that the binding nature of the law of Moses would remain forever in effect. Such a view would contradict everything we learn from the balance of the New Testament (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15).

Jesus fulfilled the law. Jesus fulfilled all of the law. We cannot say that Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial system, but did not fulfill the other aspects of the law. Jesus either fulfilled all of the law, or none of it. What Jesus' death means for the sacrificial system, it also means for the other aspects of the law. (Source)

reply to post by mamabeth


Amen! A woman after my own heart j/k

Thanks for speaking the truth!

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:
I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Matt 5:17-18)

Are "to destroy" and "to fulfill" synonymous?
By "fulfilling" the law, has it now been done away with (destroyed)?
Jesus came to fulfill the law and not destroy it. His own words.

The 4th Commandment...
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."

Are we now to forget the only Commandment that begins with the word "Remember"..?

Originally posted by SkyLiner
Are we now to forget the only Commandment that begins with the word "Remember"..?

Are we now to fixate on the only Commandment which is not repeated in the New Testament?

Who is it exactly, that the Messiah is returning for to deliver..?

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
(Rev 14:12)

reply to post by adjensen


The Bible is like a large puzzle,you have to read from both the old
and new testaments to get the whole picture.Many christians make
the mistake of dismissing the old testament,you can't do that.

reply to post by SkyLiner


So you don't care what Jesus said?

Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

“Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

“All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Matthew 19:16-21 NIV)

There, in the exact words of Christ, are the details of how to achieve eternal life. Kindly underline the passage that says you have to keep the Jewish Sabbath.

reply to post by Leuan

just my opinion but i don't believe that any day in particular should matter, it was the Lord God that imposed this rule upon us just as another way to control us, the Lord God is not the God who created us, confused? i know i was, the version of the bible i read is the authorised king james bible, and all throughout it there appears to be two very conflicting sides to God. one is purely and simply described as God, and the other is Lord God and they appear to be two very different entities altogether,

it's the Lord God i have issues with as i honestly believe that it is the devil, many times in the bible God says that others will come in his name, and as soon as i started to read the bible about 18 months ago it was a revelation that slapped me in the face almost immediately,

you'll notice it is always the Lord God who imposes seemingly unneccessary restrictions on us, but of course makes sure he at least preaches the true Creators words occasionally just to put on a great performance,

All God wants for us it to love each other purely and live at peace with each other and with nature, God doesn't need us to worship him, but instead to be true to ourselves and see what we are truly capable of, instead the Lord God has gone a damn good job of setting us against each other, forming pointless rules,

i know my reply probably seems to have gone a little off course but when you asked your question about the sabbath i just saw confusion and i thought maybe i could help by hopefully explaining why i don't feel it matters,

life really isn't supposed to be so difficult and there are people in this world who have hidden so much from us making it almost impossible for us to see our true beauty, i hope you find the answers to all of your questions and please don't think i'm trying to force my opinion on you because that definitely isn't my intention,

all the best

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by adjensen

 

The Bible is like a large puzzle,you have to read from both the old
and new testaments to get the whole picture.Many christians make
the mistake of dismissing the old testament,you can't do that.

The mistake being made in this thread is not the dismissal of the Hebrew Bible (at least not by me -- review what I have said, please,) but in whether salvation is self-contained in Christ, or if it is also dependent on the obeyance of Judaic Law. It is a debate that extends all the way back to Paul, and the orthodox Christian view, consistently, is that it is the former, not the latter.

Seventh Day Adventists came to the conclusion that they did because of the "revelations" of their founders, along with the belief that the "Mark of the Beast" is worldwide forced Sunday worship. There is no New Testament support to their claims, and the "Mark of the Beast" thing is obviously nonsense in today's day and age.

Did Adam & Eve both keep God's Holy 7th Day Sabbath?
Answer: Yes.

Were Adam & Eve adhering to Judaic law?
Are Adam and Eve, - Jewish?