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Does Bin Laden's support for Kerry help or hurt the Kerry camp?

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posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 05:48 PM
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It appears that Bin Laden is asking people to support Kerry rather than Bush. Will this tactic work or do you think it will backfire & help Bush/hurt Kerry?

I think it's going to backfire because I don't think many folks like Bin Laden, but I might be wrong.




posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 05:50 PM
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He said neither can protect the American citizens from him, if he wants to attack us. So it's not support for either candidate.

On the other hand, it is a slight to Bush, because he's trying to run on the fact that he's the only person who can protect us. And clearly that's wrong.

If Al'Qaeda wanted to do attacks in America like are going on in Iraq every day (car bombing, kidnappings, etc), they could. There would probably be a better chance of them getting caught, but they could execute attacks with no problems at all.

The only reason they aren't, at least in my opinion, is they don't want to risk the operatives they have here in America getting arrested for 'little attacks.' They are saving them up for something more spectacular like 9/11.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 05:51 PM
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I think the emergeance of a Bin Laden tape, although I have serious doubts about the authenticity or at least the authenticity of the message, by default benefits Bush. His handling of the war on terror is listed in almost every poll as being a double digit lead.

UBL reemerging is a default win for Bush/Cheney. I know several people that were planning on voting Kerry because they believed (as I did) that UBL was killed or seriously wounded in Tora Bora and died, therefor the real terror war was over and we could return to a peacetime stance. Now they are seriously rethinking their voting choice, and two have now decided to return to Bush's camp.

Yep, a default win for the Bush crowd.

Viva! Bush!

[edit on 29-10-2004 by everlastingnoitall]



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 05:54 PM
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I disagree with your assessment that he supports Kerry. Frankly, his message in fact silences the claims by either side that he supports the other. In essence he has told Americans that it does not matter to him which of the two they choose, what matters is that they hold the key to their own security; i.e U.S foreign policy.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 05:57 PM
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I agree with Hamilton on this. Bin Laden went out of his way to express the fact that he doesn't care who is in office. For the first time in any of his videos he actually toned down the religious rhetoric and spoke to US involvement in the politics of the middle east.

The video, at least IMO, was alot less fire and brimstone and more political in nature.

From the transcript:


OBL: Your security is not in the hands of Kerry or Bush or Al Qaeda. Your security is in your hands. Each state that doenst mess with our security has automatically secured their security.



B



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 06:04 PM
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The idea that bin Laden supports Kerry is so astoundingly pathetic IMO.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 06:06 PM
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Bin Laden specifically used his words carefully as to say it's up to you and not directly endorse Kerry (knowing it could indeed backfire), but I think what was clear is that he does not want people to vote for Bush (hence the only other viable candidate is Kerry), otherwise it would not have been released right before the election. If your unable to see that then your only fooling yourselves.

Or am I fooling myself & the fact that an election is a couple days away a coincidence?

The A/P has already released an article saying both Bush & Kerry are fired up about the tape allowing Kerry to distance himself from Bin Laden, but I still think it's clear who Bin Laden wants you to vote for.





[edit on 29-10-2004 by outsider]



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 06:12 PM
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The simple notion of Kerry trying to distance himself from certain terrorist figures (like UBL and Arafat) speaks volumes



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by everlastingnoitall
Yep, a default win for the Bush crowd.


Yep, and that's a good choice of words. It's a default win for the BUSH crowd. That doesn't mean much, since the Bush crowd was going to vote for Bush anyway. It's possible it may get a few Bush supporters to go out and vote when they otherwise wouldn't have (doubtful), but anything's possible.

But for the undecided's who don't blindly support one candidate over the other? It won't urge them to vote for Bush. They will see it for what it is. If anything, it will cause them not to support Bush. They see, after three years, that the leader behind the 9/11 attacks is free. They see him declaring that neither Bush nor Kerry can always protect us, that we are responsible for our own safety (actually one point I completely concur with).

Bush's entire campaign was run on the basis of protecting us from terror, and a few days before the election, Osama pops up to remind us that he is free, he hasn't been brought to justice, and if he wants to attack us again -- he will, and there's nothing Bush or Kerry can do to stop him.

And, umm, that strengthens Bush how?



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 06:18 PM
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The commentary I heard on MSNBC was that UBL said that Kerry and Bush were both bad but that Bush is the worse of the two. From the clips of the video that they played I didn't really understand where they were getting that interpretation but I figured maybe there was more to the tape than what they were saying.

Did anyone else notice that UBL's body was very still? My husband and I got the impression that perhaps he was seated in a wheelchair.

Jemison



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by outsider
allowing Kerry to distance himself from Bin Laden, but I still think it's clear who Bin Laden wants you to vote for.


Your comment made little sense the way you phrased it, but I think I understand what you are trying to say.

Kerry has to do that basically. If he comes out and says, "I told you so. We're stuck finishing off an optional war in Iraq, while the leader behind 9/11 is free and preaching propaganda freely from wherever he is hiding. Is Bush is so strong on terror, why hasn't Osama been brought to justice?"

But guess what, then that comes off as him politicizing it all, and would result in a backlash. So he lets the video speak for itself, Kerry doesn't need to point out what it all signifies. It's quite obvious.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 06:24 PM
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It strengthens Bush because more people trust Bush (by double digit margins) on terror then Kerry. I pointed to the example of recent waffling on the issue , and leaning toward Kerry because the threat from UBL seemed to be waning. With the release of the new tape, Americans remember 9/11 (the image of UBL invokes the memory, also of other attakcs against us), The memory of 9/11 still brings sadness and anger, and rightly so. The emotional stigma attached to the image of UBL will draw those who may have been waffling away from Bush because of the lessened 'percieved danger' will come right back.

On November 2nd, many people will go into the voting booth, and the number one question will be "who will better protect the homeland from terror". The DECISIVE choice on that question, is GWB. Kerry doesn't have the balls.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 06:27 PM
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How the hell is it decisive? OSAMA IS STILL FREE. The guy behind 9/11 is running his damn mouth on those videos again. Is Bush is so strong on terror, why the hell is Osama out there doing this??



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 06:32 PM
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First, I encourage you to read translations from web sites other than American news sources.

Second, wasn't this guy supposed to be dead three years ago?

Why is he still able to make these tapes and get people all freaked out? Can someone please dispose of this man? Powell? Franks? Someone please!

I think this helps Bush, not because UBL is for Kerry. I don't think he is for anyone and that was the point of the message, but people who use it for what they want. I think this helps Bush because it gets them off talking about all the missing explosives. It will be UBL all weekend instead of MISSING EXPLOSIVES!

I still think it's age old American policy that created him in the first place. We can blame Bush for him, but Bush 1 and Reagan.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 06:41 PM
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I agree with W-Hamilton, It doesn't matter who is in the Oval office. If they want to attack us they will. It's just a matter of time before they hit us again. And as long as Bush is in office you can be guareented it will happen sooner than later. imo



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by W_HAMILTON
How the hell is it decisive? OSAMA IS STILL FREE. The guy behind 9/11 is running his damn mouth on those videos again. Is Bush is so strong on terror, why the hell is Osama out there doing this??


I see your point & it's a good one, but If ideed that is Osama I don't think it would be any different whether Gore or Bush were in office.

As far as being strong on terror I think Bush has done okay & from his past record I don't see Kerry doing as well, but I might be wrong.

Personally I have a hard time voting for any administration that supports the Patriot act, but I feel I have to vote & I'm leaning toward Bush even though I'd rather have Nader.



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by everlastingnoitall
Yep, a default win for the Bush crowd.

Viva! Bush!


You guys are so sad. The only people I see trying to spin the words of a mad man as "suport for Kerry" are Fox News pundits and a handful of Republicans on here. Probably elsewhere too, but the giddiness of some for Osama to still be free, alive and coming out now to ride election coverage for his own anti-American propaganda efforts and threats speaks more volumes than you know. And it's not pretty.

Will you and Bush be sending thank you cards to Osama should Bush win now?
Hopefully, Osama won't influence the election and Kerry will still win. Save your polling assessments. It's been front page news all week Bush is in trouble. Deep trouble in swing states. Now this is what formerly frantic Republicans are so happy has come out to "save" Bush. The words of mad man he couldn't catch. Might as well be an endorsement of Bush. :shk:



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 06:48 PM
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I don't think Bush gets off scot-free in Bin Laden's tape.

"Bin Laden suggested Bush was slow to react to the Sept. 11 attacks, giving the hijackers more time than they expected. At the time of the attacks, the president was listening to schoolchildren in Florida reading a book.

"It never occurred to us that the commander-in-chief of the American armed forces would leave 50,000 of his citizens in the two towers to face these horrors alone," he said, referring to the number of people who worked at the World Trade Center.

"It appeared to him (Bush) that a little girl's talk about her goat and its butting was more important than the planes and their butting of the skyscrapers. That gave us three times the required time to carry out the operations, thank God"

(taken from yahoo: news.yahoo.com.../ap/20041029/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bin_laden_tape_15 )



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by outsider
I see your point & it's a good one, but If ideed that is Osama I don't think it would be any different whether Gore or Bush were in office.


And you say you are leaning towards Bush, right?

If you don't see the inherent problem for the Bush administration when you yourself say that you don't think there would be a difference whether Bush/Gore is in office, I'm not sure what to tell you.

That's supposed to be their big plus. They're supposed to be strong on terror. They're supposed to be aggressive, and on the offensive. If you think that it wouldn't matter much whether Bush or Gore were in office, what do you think the undecided's will think?



posted on Oct, 29 2004 @ 07:37 PM
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Of course the Bush people are going to try and spin this their way. What other direction would we expect them to take it? Just the fact that Bin Laden has come out with this tape should be damning to Bush, Bush is the only person in America, I think, who is NOT concerned about him remember? I thought the people that brought the buildings down were going to be hearing from us, well, turns out it's the other way around. Also, Bin Laden seems to be extending some sort of peace offer, anybody else find that strange? I thought he hated us for being us, but it seems he just wants us to keep our noses out of the Middle East, so if we do ever want peace, Kerry would be the only one out of the two that may actually change our policy. Find alternative fuels and get us the hell outta there. I know this will not go over well with the angry vengeful rednecks who support Bush, but c'mon guys, we've killed a $hitload of Arabs, so the whole eye for an eye debt has been collected. If we ever want REAL peace for our children, we may want to reconsider our policy. I think if Bush is re-elected, there may actually be a terrorist attack, if the Bushies are correct and Bin Laden does think Bush is the worst of the two, there may be an attack to protest our decision. Looks like Cheney may have had the right idea, just the wrong candidate. Maybe if Kerry is elected, they will wait and see the direction the new administration will take us. What if they don't want to keep this war going, I know everybody has absorbed what our media has soaked us in, and we're supposed to believe they just want us dead, no matter what, but what if they really do just want us to stay out of their business, isn't that a valid request? Just because corporations have stakes there, does that mean our citizens and soldiers should die for those corporations? It's time we stop letting oil companies govern us, and take the power away from them. Maybe then, there will be an end to this endless war on terror, although I'm sure many will disagree with me, because they don't think we've gotten enough "payback" yet. How many more Arabs should we kill until you are satisfied? How many more American lives is it worth to you?

[edit on 29-10-2004 by 27jd]



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