Is This Officer Over Stepping His Bounds: Cop Lays out a Soldier

Originally posted by swimmer15
When I was active duty I got into a fight with an officer and instead of "Making an example out of me" I was given a choice to either go to Captans mast or receive a anger managment class and give a lecture on the importance of maintaining dicipline within the chain of command on my own time to each department of the command. It sucked but I learned alot.

All well and good if you are in the army. This a different scenario. If a police officer said to me repeatedly, "I'm a Marine" (which he obviously was no longer) I would perceive that as more than a threat of corporal punishment, which it was.

So are American cops not trained on how to psychologically handle a person who is upset, angry, and under a state of duress in the heat of the moment ??

Are they not trained to talk someone down understanding full well that this person is more than likely in an adrenaline-pumped state of mind and needs to be calmed first in order to get them talking rationally ??

Or are American cops just simply trained to smack someone down in order to put them in their place and shut them up, and then ask questions later ??

reply to post by smurfy


No. Apparently they both needed stabilizing.

While some feel this is a discussion of how people have come to accept police brutality, I see the video as a statement on our inability to have an affective or meaningful exchange with anyone.

What if the kid had beaten up the cop? What if when they both stepped up toe to toe the kid had knocked out the cop?

Because the cop abused his authority it is more inflammatory, but that doesn't mean I couldn't have seen it coming.

They were both ready to fight. The cop was bigger, he won. I still didn't say it was justified. I am speaking of the immediate situation in which they were both willing to throw down. The kid under estimated his chest puffing. All I'm saying is he needs to develop some situational awareness.

Originally posted by VekTorVik
reply to post by iwilliam

 

Can't argue with you there.

I was only trying to say that I think we all saw it coming. Is it acceptable, no. But in the immediate situation, which we saw in the video, the kid was assaulted. You can take action afterward, but it useless to argue with a cop. I understand that you feel frustrated and that people are accepting this sort of treatment, but what do you do. To maintain the high ground you follow the rules and file a complaint, but you still got your block knocked off. To threaten violence makes you no better than the bully.

The kid was trying to bully the cop as well, by using an aggressive tone and threatening manner. He just underestimated the affect it would have.

And yes, I do like authority and rules. They are the boundaries by which I conduct my life else I fall over the edge and am lost. So beat me up for it...

Once again applause, although even following the rules must be so difficult at times, when you see what goes on, and even in the video by ABC, that police advisor still went into protection mode when he said that, technically the 'officer' was within the rules. Nobody seems to understand any more that all these modern day rules, is bullying under a different name.

reply to post by smurfy


If you jump up and say do you know who i am? I am a Soldier. You are saying im the baddest mother here and make no mistake im in charge. He asked to be floored.

Not his words exactly but that is how he tried to come off.

"US Soldier bro, know who you're talking to." That's all I needed to hear. Yes, the officer stepped inside his space, and then the "soldier" responded by stepping forward also. The officer stepped forward after the "soldier" started using profanity. It's called respect. Get it to give it. Homeboy wants to talk trash and lay an attitude on an officer, then cry because the officer wasn't intimidated by his "US Soldier bro" comment? Hysterical.

reply to post by smurfy


I'm sorry. I guess we should all just do what ever we feel regardless of others. You are obviously advocating a lawless society. In that case, expect more of what you saw in the video. It is by these laws and rules that you feel confined by that we let those who fail to feel empathy or compassion know that what they are doing is wrong. Like punching people to get them to calm down.

I enjoy laws and rules. If you follow them you are standing on firm ground.

I think the miscommunication here is that you are associating the cop with the law. Funny, I know. When he overstepped the law he was acting as an individual and not a cop. I think people fail to recognize that sometimes people do that. Overstep their boundaries and punch you in the face. It is by all means your right to express your feelings in what ever way you desire. Just be aware that sometimes people don't follow the rules and they hit you.

reply to post by Shamrock6


A so-called professionally trained cop not recognizing a person's irrational state of mind that he sees 1000 times a day on the job and handling the situation accordingly, but instead taking the bait and allowing the blood to rush to his pecker.... Now THAT is hysterical.

So many cowboys, so little time.

Originally posted by VekTorVik
reply to post by smurfy

 

No. Apparently they both needed stabilizing.

While some feel this is a discussion of how people have come to accept police brutality, I see the video as a statement on our inability to have an affective or meaningful exchange with anyone.

What if the kid had beaten up the cop? What if when they both stepped up toe to toe the kid had knocked out the cop?

Because the cop abused his authority it is more inflammatory, but that doesn't mean I couldn't have seen it coming.

They were both ready to fight. The cop was bigger, he won. I still didn't say it was justified. I am speaking of the immediate situation in which they were both willing to throw down. The kid under estimated his chest puffing. All I'm saying is he needs to develop some situational awareness.

The kid's reaction was to the officer's immediate attitude re the late call, and the officer's stepping forward and not liking the remark, I don't think that the kid was ready to fight though, just that wee bit of bravado. We also only get the view from the headcam, and not the officers face, while the other officer, who seemingly had NO camera was passive, but also compliant, even though he watched an assault.

reply to post by CranialSponge


you're right, cops aren't human. so lets say the officer just cleared the scene of a rape homicide and was at the end of a 12 hour shift. he should've robotted his way through the entire call. cops, despite being humans, should never ever react like a human. they should just expect to have people crap all over them every day they go to work and they should just take it in stride, never reacting or responding.

like i said, hysterical

Originally posted by Shamrock6
reply to post by CranialSponge

 

you're right, cops aren't human. so lets say the officer just cleared the scene of a rape homicide and was at the end of a 12 hour shift. he should've robotted his way through the entire call. cops, despite being humans, should never ever react like a human. they should just expect to have people crap all over them every day they go to work and they should just take it in stride, never reacting or responding.

like i said, hysterical

Hmm... You're right.

Smacking someone upside the head is a natural human reaction in order to calm someone down.

My bad.

Originally posted by xedocodex
The kid was a little punk. The cop stepped closer to him because the kid was yelling and cursing at him. The kid DID step to the cop declaring if he knew who he was talking to.

All of you that have a problem with police, do you act like like a little punk when dealing with them?

And for all of you complaining that it took 45 minutes for police to respond...do you know what they were doing before this? Maybe they had a real call and not some idiot that got kicked out by his roommates.

There have been very few police videos posted on ATS where I have actually agreed that it was brutality...this isn't one of them. You act stupid, you get what you deserve.

I want to agree with you. The kid is definitely a moron, but that doesn't excuse the cop's behavior. How hard would it have been for the cop to apologize for taking so long to get there? Isn't that what we all do when we're late for something?

What if the moron was actually a petite female rape victim? Would the cop have acted the same way?

I know it wasnt adressed to me but ill snswer. Not a reaction to calm someone down but it's a natural reaction for many when within range and challenged. That close in a heated situation any movement would cause a reaction. I think the cop handled it wrong but seing how the guy came off and how fast they were face to face I'm understanding of the situation and feel the kid brought it on himself.

I admit I'm a little sympathetic to cops. They have a tough job and actions of a few make all of their jobs harder. But I have never once had a bad experience with a cop when I wasn't acting like a jackass. IMO if you challenge them you deserve what you get.

reply to post by CranialSponge


they should've just hugged it out. the cop should apologize and spend ten minutes debating response time to a crime thats no longer a) violent or b) in progress, only to have said debate delay dealing with the actual reason for the call in the first place because they argued in circles for half an hour instead of getting to the point. the kid should've had decided he needed to try and have a pissing contest with the officer. the officer should've had a box of tissues handy for the kid, and a hurt feelings complaint ready to go.

people who bash cops tend to do it because they've had a bad experience with them. most of their bad experiences came about because of their own actions, whether they want to or will admit it. strange, but by being polite and respectful, i've never had a bad experience with an LEO. odd, that

When I first saw this video earlier today my first reaction was that the kid needed a total attitude adjustment... What he doesn't need is an attitude adjustment from a law enforcement officer, that's simply not their job.

Most cops dont deserve any more respect than any other law abiding citizen and more and more Im suspecting they deserve far less. Im fairly certain that had the kid been privy to the bitch slap he received and put is hand or arm up to block it he would have been charged with freaking assault. How rich is that?

Originally posted by swimmer15
reply to post by smurfy

 

If you jump up and say do you know who i am? I am a Soldier. You are saying im the baddest mother here and make no mistake im in charge. He asked to be floored.

Not his words exactly but that is how he tried to come off.

edit on 8-2-2013 by swimmer15 because: (no reason given)

The officer repeatedly said he was a Marine, did the kid hit him? no he held the reserve aside from the posturing, even though the cop was already being aggressive because he didn't like the remark about the long time to respond, and wasn't going to bother about any kind of explanation as to why, as if he should have to when, a simple remark about priorities, or very busy, or that I understand you are under duress, or whatever comes to mind could have broke the ice a little. Put it another way, how could the cop not consider for instance, the kid may have a disability and was talking #e in general, and just humour the kid, for a time at least, (he did consider something after he thumped him, when he asked the kid what part of the military he was in) You it seems would just thump anyone, just like the cop without consideration. Have a look at this video to see what I mean,
In edit a warning, for those indisposed to violence.

reply to post by Shamrock6


So that's the choices then ?

Smash someone in the face or hug them ?

And by the way:
The crime was no longer a) violent or b) in progress because it took 45 minutes for the cops to finally show their faces... the criminals were finished pounding the piss out of this guy by that time.



I've had a couple of nasty confrontations with cops in my days of youth (usually under the influence) and thankfully the professionally trained gentlemen handled it accordingly by talking me down, calming me, and then dealing with me rationally... After my adrenaline was settled, I apologized for my ridiculous behaviour and the police and I sat and had a good chuckle together after the fact. I guess things are different on your side of the border.

Cowboys gotta do what cowboys gotta do.

Maybe what needs to happen is mandatory anger management courses implemented into the US education system from kindergarten on up because apparently nobody knows how to handle a situation without some sort of physical confrontation. You know, that "natural human reaction" and "giving someone what they deserve" stuff you're talking about ?

Forgive me if this has already been addressed, do you Marine vets and active duty Marines condone the actions of this "former" marine and accept him into the fold?
To you Marines and all other branches of the military, thank you for all you do! Semper Fi!

Simply put the "officer" is responsible for deescalating and defusing tense situations. At least they should be trained that way - sure sometimes the answer to a challenge of a person's position and authority is to demonstrate it; however, this is not one of them.

The guy was alone out there in front of the house, no need to assert authority to keep a large group in compliance by finding the agitator in a group.

They are not paid to ratchet up tension but to mitigate it and ease people into peaceful discourse and solutions.

The problem is as I see it too many cops take these situations personally. This had zero to do with this "officers" status as a man, a marine or whatever it never needed to go there.

He obviously needs to be retrained on conflict resolution strategy or mitigation methods. I’d give him the one chance and if it happened again he’d be gone – we don’t need bullies for law enforcement.

Originally posted by CranialSponge
reply to post by Shamrock6

 

I've had a couple of nasty confrontations with cops in my days of youth (usually under the influence) and thankfully the professionally trained gentlemen handled it accordingly by talking me down, calming me, and then dealing with me rationally... After my adrenaline was settled, I apologized for my ridiculous behaviour and the police and I sat and had a good chuckle together after the fact. I guess things are different on your side of the border.

As a young Marine I have a few of these stories myself. It was actually my favorite way to get a free ride home.