Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Theory' is a Conspiracy Fact

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posted on Sep, 25 2004 @ 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by LL1
Now the terrorists had degrees in architecture (master degree), I believe they knew exactly what they were doing. 11 of the 19 had degrees (plural) DEGREES!
They studied their mark carefully.


Ok, I'm not debating why it fell anymore, this is an entirely different approach I'm about to take you


We know the planes hit the building and they the expedentially caused their collapse. But we still don't know 'why'.

How is it possible that 24 hours after the attack, we already apparently had solid proof it was Al-Queda. Solid proof except with an aired video showing us Osama Bin Laden saying AlQueda did NOT do it, but praising whomever did.

So with in 24 hours, we had proof of who did it, but the guy we said did it denies it.

How is it possible to conduct such an investigation in 24 hours without a confession at hand that day?

Who made the confession? Apparently it wasnt Al-Queda if Osama says it wasnt him. Why would he lie, he has nothing to lose or gain, hes already the #1 Most wanted man that can't be found.

So apparently, either the United States had NO CLUE who did it and just picked a name out of the hat to avoid looking weak and vulernable, or, someone called in a confession and we jumped all over it without investigating if it were geniune.

Who's to say those 11 of the 19 terrorists ever went to school for those degrees? If it were an operational that high, it would be quite easy to alter a few wanted men's profiles. . .



[edit on 9/25/2004 by QuietSoul]



LL1

posted on Sep, 25 2004 @ 07:13 PM
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Jet fuel highly flammable, even the heavy dense fumes are flammable and will roll as low as they can go.
On impact the WTC's structure/construction allowed the wings to entire, releasing the jet fuel, creating fires. (fuel carried in wings of aircrafts)
People had serious burns as the jet fuel clung to them, like Napalm.

As for knew/knowing and finger pointing to AQ.
They had sent a message prior to attack....



posted on Sep, 25 2004 @ 07:15 PM
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IMO the Government knew the who but not the when or where because of the talk at the time back and forth between the groups involved.



posted on Sep, 25 2004 @ 07:17 PM
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As for knew/knowing and finger pointing to AQ.
They had sent a message prior to attack....

Is there any proof of them sending a message ahead of time? Or is that speculation?

Also, if they claimed they were going to do it, and then did it, why would they then deny it afterwards?

See where I'm going with this..?

[edit on 9/25/2004 by QuietSoul]


LL1

posted on Sep, 25 2004 @ 07:18 PM
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indicates the 3 events that lead to the collapse, there is no support in/under the floors.

www.architectureweek.com...


LL1

posted on Sep, 25 2004 @ 07:22 PM
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by AQ link....

abcnews.go.com...

"speculation on message"
No, but I'll have to go find it. They sent it as a riddle.



posted on Sep, 25 2004 @ 07:22 PM
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I've got to go make a key to a bike. The rally is in Galveston tonite. Be back later. This ones a BMW. Can't pass up that money.


LL1

posted on Sep, 25 2004 @ 07:26 PM
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Proof AQ claims responsibilty from "The Island" (al Jazeera):

english.people.com.cn...



posted on Sep, 25 2004 @ 07:57 PM
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Sorry
This content is not available. We apologize for the inconvenience.


From your link: abcnews.go.com...

That video isn't available.. which I find strange because ABC normally keeps their archives intact for a long period of time..


Edit add:

And thanks for the confession link, english.people.com.cn...

It's starting to come back together ;p

I swear everytime I read these 9/11 threads my mind shoots into 20 directions and ends up in the same place :x



[edit on 9/25/2004 by QuietSoul]


LL1

posted on Sep, 25 2004 @ 08:10 PM
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may be unavailable, but there is literature on the video.



posted on Sep, 26 2004 @ 04:10 AM
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Here are the asbestos related bits I have gleaned from various sources on WTC, alot of which is related to pst WTC clean up litigations, but give an idea of the amount of asbestos involed. Also I have some informtation on the combustion temperatures of jet fuel in an oxygen starved (hence black smoke) environment, which I will post as well if any interest is expressed. Also, i wanted to mention that immediately after WTC, several news outlets showed footage of arabs celebrating in the streets, oddly that footage was discovered to be stock footage from the first gulf war.

"A lead engineer who worked on the WTC expressed shock that the towers
collapsed from plane crashes. Lee Robertson, the tower's structural
engineer, addressed the problem of terrorism in the plans for the
building, claiming he “designed it for a (Boeing) 707 to hit it.”
Lets examine Mr. Robertsons handiwork a bit more and take a look at how
these towers were made…
Those 4 cranes you see in the photo, are perched atop the central support
core of the tower. This core is built of sheer concrete reinforced by 44
beams of construction grade steel which were sealed in asbestos."

"Under pressure from the White House, the Environmental Protection Agency assured the
public that the New York City air was safe to
breathe a week after 9-11.
“I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C. that their air is safe to breath[e] and their water is safe to drink.”
Christie Todd Whitman in EPA Press Release 9/18/01. The EPA omitted warnings about potential health effects from airborne dust containing asbestos,
lead, glass fibers and concrete. For example Air particulates in Manhattan one month after
the attack were at higher levels than the
Kuwaiti oil fires. In addition, the EPA claim
that the air was safe to breathe was done
without any monitoring data to support it."

"The White House edited a draft EPA release
(9/13) that EPA was “testing terrorized sites
for environmental hazards” to EPA “reassures
public about environmental hazards.”
Another press release (9/16) was edited from
“[r]ecent samples of dust . . . on Water Street
show higher levels of asbestos” to “[n]ew
samples confirm . . . ambient air quality meets
OSHA standards.” The White House refused to talk with the EPA
Inspector General investigating these claims. "

"Ground Zero Workers File Lawsuit
By KAREN MATTHEWS, AP
NEW YORK (Sept. 13) - Hundreds of people who worked on the World Trade Center cleanup have filed a class-action lawsuit against the leaseholder of the towers and those who supervised the job, alleging they did little to protect workers from dust, asbestos and other toxins in the air.
The lawsuit, filed in federal court on Friday and made public Monday, was
brought against Silverstein Properties and the four construction companies
hired to oversee the removal of the 1.5 million tons of debris.
David Worby, a lawyer for the plaintiffs, said he will seek billions of
dollars in compensation for victims. The lawsuit also asks for the
establishment of a system to track for the next 20 years all those who
were exposed."

"Why did the Bush administration lie about dangerously high
levels of toxins and hazardous particles after the WTC collapse?
Because apparently some White House officials felt that the health
of the American economy and Wall Street was more important than the
health of New York City residents who lived nearby. For example, on
Sept. 16, 2001, a draft press release from the Environmental
Protection Agency said: "Recent samples of dust gathered by OSHA on
Water Street showed higher levels of asbestos in EPA tests." That
was deleted and replaced with this: "The new samples confirm
previous reports that ambient air quality meets OSHA standards and
consequently is not a cause for public concern."
A key figure in the changes was the head of the White House Council
on Environmental Quality, who - you can't make this stuff up - is a
lawyer who formerly represented the asbestos industry.
In fact, the EPA told workers and residents that it was safe to
return to lower Manhattan at a time when some test results had not
been analyzed and other key tests had not even been performed. The
outcome? Key medical professionals say thousands of New Yorkers have
developed respiratory illnesses associated with exposure to the
dust. Symptoms include periodic gasping for air, a choking sensation
and unusual sensitivity to airborne irritants, apparently from a
type of "occupational asthma" called Reactive Airways Disease
Syndrome. The rubble from the World Trade buildings in New York totaled nearly a million tons (900,000 tonnes). The site is now contaminated by asbestos and other toxins, and will require extensive clean-up before anything else can be built there."

"Major findings about the floor system fireproofing include:
Early in the design phase of the WTC towers, the Port
Authority of New York and New Jersey decided to comply with
NYC building code (the 1961-1962 revision of the NYC
building code was in effect at the time).
In 1965, the Port Authority revised its plans to comply with
the second and third drafts of what became the 1968 edition
of the NYC building code; that code required a 2-hour fire
rating (the length of time that a structural element can
withstand a standard fire in a test) for the floor system.
Limited information (all from the first 38 floors of WTC 1)
from surveys conducted in 1990 as part of an
asbestos-related litigation and subsequent measurements made
in 1993 reported that the fireproofing thickness on the
floor joists (the supports for the floors of WTC 1 and 2)
was consistently about one-half inch or more, with an
average of about three-quarters of an inch.
Both WTC towers were retrofitted by the early 1990s with
sprinkler systems."

"Health and Environmental Impacts of the WTC Bombing
After the Twin Towers were leveled, smoke and dust rose over 1000
feet and moved south over Brooklyn and Staten Island. Many people in
the immediate area, and particularly rescue workers, were subjected
to an unknown cocktail of gases and airborne particulates. In the
days after September 11th the EPA and OSHA took air samples and
reported that they found no excessive levels of asbestos, lead, or
volatile organic compounds in the air, except in or around Ground
Zero. Dust samples taken from surfaces near Ground Zero did show
high levels of asbestos. Significant quantities of asbestos had
remained in the Twin Towers despite asbestos abatement programs.
The WTC towers were built from 1968 to 1972. A slurry mixture
of asbestos and cement was sprayed on as fireproofing
material. But this practice was banned by the New York City
Council in 1971. This halted the spraying, but not before
hundreds of tons of the material had been applied. Some but
not all of it was later removed in an abatement program.
Asbestos was also used in other applications that ordinarily
do not leave a friable (crumbly) residue, but that can be
turned to dust under the extraordinary conditions that existed
on Sept. 11. The combustion of building materials and
furnishings by jet fuel might also be expected to generate
some rather exotic chemicals. 1 "



posted on Sep, 26 2004 @ 08:22 PM
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You know I snapped to something as I was at the party last night after talking with other people there and seeing a few puppies. Seems the dude with the bike who lost his key was rich and had a big party on the seawall. O.K., I was wrong in stating Frontline said the foor joist conecting the inner and outer vertical supports were asbestos free. I'm sorry. It has been two years since I saw the program. What they said was the bolts connecting the outer wall to the inner wall at both ends of the joist were not protected mostly on the outer wall and the connection wasn't the best in the world because the original plan called for a better connection, i.e. more bolts. They also said the plane hitting the tower knocked off most of the asbestos on the floors that took the direct hit. I'm sorry for the wrong information that I brought to this discusion as that was not my intent. Like I said, I think it happened just like the Government said it did but I do have an open mind.



posted on Sep, 27 2004 @ 05:23 AM
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I wasn't able to find the information I wanted to post in regards to the Israeli Nationals that reseived emails telling them not to go to towrk on 9-11 (they worked in the WTC) I have it somewhere adn will keep looking, but ehre are some related articles that i thought you guys would find interesting. I wonder if we aren't bombing and invading the wrong countries?


"PA uncovers Israelis posing as Al-Qaeda
uploaded 10 Sep 2003
First Published 2002-12-07, Last Updated 2002-12-07 21:35:02
Gaza security chief announces arrest of three Palestinians used by
Israeli intelligence as al-Qaeda operatives.
GAZA CITY
A senior Palestinian security official claimed Saturday his services
had uncovered an Israeli plot to create a mock Al-Qaeda cell in the
Gaza Strip, while an Israeli official dismissed the charge as
"absurd".
Gaza head of preventive security Rashid Abu Shbak told journalists
at a press conference that Israeli agents, posing as operatives of
Osama bin Laden's terrorist group, recruited Palestinians in the
Gaza Strip.
"Over the past nine months, we've been investigating eight cases in
which Israeli intelligence posing as Al-Qaeda operatives recruited
Palestinians in the Gaza Strip," said Abu Shbak, referring to a
series of e-mails and phone call conversations.
He added that three Palestinians had been detained.
Abu Shbak's revelations came two days after Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon charged Al-Qaeda militants were operating in the Gaza Strip and in Lebanon, raising fears of an intensification of Israeli military operations.
A spokesman for Israel's foreign ministry branded the Palestinian claim "ridiculous" and "some kind of propaganda campaign," adding that "the Palestinian territories have become a breeding ground for terrorism.
"There is no need for Israel to make up something like this because (the hardline Islamic movements) Hamas, Islamic Jihad and (Lebanon-based militant group) Hezbollah are all the same as Al-Qaeda," spokesman Gilad Millo said.
"If... Sharon has made these allegations, he must be basing it on some evidence," he also said.Abu Shbak said three Palestinians used by Israeli intelligence had been arrested, while another 11 were released "because they came and informed us of this Israeli plot."
He poured cold water on the theory that Al-Qaeda was operating in the occupied territories.
"Al-Qaeda doesn't recruit so easily and openly," Abu Shbak said.
The security chief said his services had traced back to Israel cellphone calls and e-mails in which Palestinians were asked to join Al-Qaeda.
He said the calls to the Gaza Strip purportedly came from Germany and Lebanon. One e-mail was even signed bin Laden.
"We investigated the origin of those calls, which used roaming, and messages and found out they all came from Israel," he told journalists.
"The Shin Beth - Israeli internal intelligence - has the means to do whatever it wants."
He said the Palestinians recruited were then paired unbeknownst to them with Israeli collaborators in Gaza.
He said they received money and weapons "although most of these weapons did not even work".
The money was provided by "Palestinian collaborators with Israel" directly to the new recruits or "was transferred from bank accounts in Jerusalem or Israel," Shbak said.
"We are sure that Israel is behind this and that there are absolutely no groups such as Al-Qaeda operating here," the security chief said, adding however "we can't say there will never be Al-Qaeda here, but at least not for now."
But neither did Shbak contest the fact that as many as 11 Palestinians had welcomed the call from Israel to join Al-Qaeda.
"Those who accepted were mostly members of the military wing of Palestinian organizations," he said.
International cooperation minister Nabil Shaath, who also attended the press conference, accused Sharon of trying to piggyback on the US-led 'war against terrorism' to justify "more attacks on the Palestinian people and violence in the Gaza Strip".
Sharon's announcement marked the first time Israel officially claimed that Al-Qaeda, held responsible for the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States, was operating in the Palestinian territories.
It was considered a surprise because the Gaza Strip is virtually sealed off by Israeli troops.
The hardline Israeli leader also charged other members of the terror group were cooperating with Lebanon's Shiite militia Hezbollah.
The Lebanese government and Hezbollah had also dismissed the accusations.
Three Israelis and 10 Kenyans were killed in a suicide attack on a hotel near the Kenyan port of Mombasa last Thursday, shortly after missiles narrowly missed an Israeli charter flight taking off from there with 261 passengers.
The attacks were purportedly claimed by Al-Qaeda on an Islamic website."


"Israeli Spies
Five Men Including Mossad Agents Documented the WTC Attack On the day of the attack a resident of Jersey City reported suspicious behavior by a group of men who appeared to be celebrating as they filmed the destruction across the Hudson. Mainstream media initially reported that the men, who were arrested around 4:30 PM, were Arabs. In fact the men were Israelis. The FBI released them 71 days later. The following is excerpted from Paul Thompson's 9-11 Timeline. 1 September 11, 2001 (W): Five Israelis are arrested for "puzzling behavior" related to the WTC attacks. They are arrested around 4:30 P.M. after having filmed the burning WTC from the roof of their company's building near Liberty State Park, then shouting in what was interpreted as cries of joy and mockery. They were spotted by a neighbor who called the police and the FBI. The police tracked them down in a van with the words "Urban Moving Systems" written on the side. [ Bergen Record, 9/12/01, Ha'aretz, 9/17/01] One man was found with $4,700 in cash hidden in his sock, another had two passports on him, and a box cutter was found in the van. [ ABC News, 6/21/02] Investigators say that "There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted... It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen." [ Bergen Record, 9/12/01] One of these Israelis later says, "Our purpose was to document the event." [ ABC News, 6/21/02] The FBI later concludes at least two are Mossad agents and that all were on a Mossad surveillance mission. The FBI interrogates them for weeks. [ Forward, 3/15/02] They are held on immigration violation charges and released 71 days later. [ ABC News, 6/21/02] Their names are later identified as Sivan and Paul Kurzberg, Oded Ellner, Omer Marmari and Yaron Shmuel. [ Forward, 3/15/02] "


"JINSA Behind Drive To Cover-Up Israeli Spy ScandalExecutive Intelligence Review News Service1-6-2
(EIRNS) - One of the "Mega" agencies that mobilized to quash the Fox TV pick-up of our Israeli spy scandal was JINSA, the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs. JINSA President and CEO David Steinmann is also a director of CAMERA (Committee for Accurate Middle East Reporting in America), the group that actually staged the e-mail, fax, letter, and phone call mobilization that squeezed Fox TV, to the point that they removed the transcripts of the four Carl Cameron segments from their own web site.
While CAMERA lists Tom Lantos among its advisors, along with Sharon cabinet minister Natan Sharansky, it is JINSA that is the real hotbed of "Mega" and "X Committee" clout, particular inside the Pentagon. On its own website, JINSA boasts that "Only one think tank puts the U.S.-Israel strategic relationship {first} -- JINSA!" JINSA lists among its directors: Richard Perle, Steven Bryen (whose wife, Shoshana Bryen is still one of the few full-time JINSA employees), Max Kampelman, Jeanne Kirkpatrick, Jack Kemp, Michael Ledeen, Joshua Muravchik, Kenneth Timmermann, and James Woolsey. Beyond these hardcore "X Committee" operatives, JINSA's board also includes a dozen or more retired flag grade U.S. military officers, including Lt. Gen. Anthony Burshnick (USAF), Gen. Crosbie Saint (USA), Maj. Gen. Lee Downer (USAF), Adm. Leon Edney (USN), Gen. John Foss (USA), Adm. David Jeremiah (USN), Adm. Jerome Johnson (USN), Maj. Gen. Jarvis Lynch (USMC), Rear Adm. Sumner Shapiro (USN). JINSA makes no bones about the fact that it is recruiting an Israeli fifth column inside the U.S. military command. They sponsor frequent all-expense-paid junkets to Israel for retired officers, which are co-sponsored by the Israeli Defense Force; they run an exchange program for military academy cadets at West Point, Annapolis and the Air Force Academy with military institutes in Israel; and they host lecture programs at all the military institutions in the U.S. where they bring in top IDF and Israeli intelligence officials. One of the top figures on the JINSA lecture circuit is Dore Gold, who is a top aide to Sharon and is about to come to Washington as the Israeli ambassador. JINSA's output of policy papers and press releases also makes clear that they are leading proponents of the "Clash of Civilizations," and the drive to lure the U.S. into a suicidal military alliance with an Israeli marcher lord state. Typical of JINSA's operations of late are their sponsorship of a series of lectures by Iraqi National Congress honcho Chulabi, and their Sept. 13 press statement, calling for the U.S. to "go beyond bin Laden" to launch military attacks against Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Syria, Sudan, the Palestinian Authority, Libya, Algeria, "and even our presumed friends Saudi Arabia and Egypt." The release demanded that the U.S. bomb Beirut and Damascus, cut military aid to Egypt, and revoke the Presidential ban on assassinations."


"Celebration Over World Trade Center Destruction Staged by Israeli MilitaryFootage of Palestinians rejoicing after the tragedies in Washington and New York on Sept. 11 has been mired in controversy. New information, however, indicates it was staged by the Israeli military public relations.
By Christopher Bollyn
The Palestinian children and woman (shown at right) allegedly celebrating the terror at tacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon on Sept. 11 was a "staged event" set up by "a team sent by the Israel Defense Ministry to film Pales tinian children rejoicing in East Jerusa lem," according to The Jerusalem Times of Sept. 14.
"A member of the team approached the Juhaina Sweets Shop and gave the owner 200 shekels [$45] and asked him to distribute the sweets to the children, according to the owner of the shop," the Times reported.
The fact that the children were being directed by a man in a white t-shirt is clearly seen on the complete video. How the children and video were manipulated for propaganda purposes was revealed on Germany's NDR TV program, Panorama, which reported that CNN had edited the footage and added voice-over explaining that the children were rejoicing because of the terrorism in the U.S. The CNN-edited footage was broadcast widely around the world.
Israeli political analyst Meron Benvenisti wrote in Ha´aretz on Sept. 13, "A team from the Spokesman's Office of the Israel Defense Forces was sent to film the scenes of joy and candy being handed out in East Jerusalem 'for public relations purposes.' "


"Some Got Warning: Don't Go Downtown on Sept. 11Some Got Warning: Don't Go Downtown on Sept. 11
Feds say Mid-Easterners knewof the coming danger
By GREG B. SMITH Daily News Staff Writer
Original Link: www.nydailynews.com...
Federal investigators have received evidence that some Middle Easterners in the New York area were warned ahead of time to stay out of lower Manhattan the morning of Sept. 11, the Daily News has learned.
The FBI was able to confirm several such warnings occurred but has been unable to discover the source of the warnings.
Agents with the FBI's Joint Terrorist Task Force have interviewed school officials in Jersey City and Brooklyn and questioned members of a Bronx mosque about the warnings, sources told The News.
James Margolin, a spokesman for the FBI's New York office, confirmed that agents were looking into several reports of warnings that preceded the attack against the World Trade Center.
"Among the e-mails and tips we received are a number of reports of people overhearing people boasting about or warning about coming attacks," he said.
Suspicious Comments
He declined to discuss specifics and would not say whether any of the 600-plus people detained in the terror probe were questioned about pre-attack warnings.
But officials and sources familiar with the investigation said the incidents include the following:
Jersey City school administrators confirmed that several days before the attack, a student of Middle Eastern descent issued a vague warning not to travel into lower Manhattan the morning of Sept. 11.
Joanne Kenny, associate superintendent of the Jersey City public schools, said, "Crisis staff determined that comments made or notes written were serious enough so we called the juvenile bureau of the Jersey City police and they followed up."
Sources Not Found
Jersey City police did not return calls seeking comment, but a source said the matter wound up being investigated by the FBI's Joint Terrorist Task Force.
Kenny wouldn't discuss the nature of the warning or reveal the name of the student who made the comment. But a source said federal authorities investigated the matter and could not determine the source of the warning.
"They ran into a dead end, and whoever may have given the warning denied it," the source said.
In the Bronx, federal investigators received reports about a similar warning at a mosque, sources said. The sources would not reveal the name of the mosque.
Sources with the Joint Terrorist Task Force questioned dozens of members of the mosque, many of whom told agents they had been given a vague warning to stay out of lower Manhattan on Sept. 11, sources said.
One source said investigators again hit a dead end when the mosque's hierarchy denied having prior knowledge of the attack.
The source pointed out that in years past, law enforcement had received tips about warnings to stay away from specific locales and of planned attacks that never materialized.
"There's a cry-wolf aspect to this that you need to put this in context," the source said.
At Brooklyn's New Utrecht High School, the FBI was notified that a Pakistani student in a bilingual class "made a comment to a teacher the week prior about the twin towers," said Karen Finney, spokeswoman for the Board of Education.
Finney would not reveal the nature of the comment, but the Journal-News of Westchester reported yesterday that the student pointed at the tower during a heated political argument and declared, "Look at those two buildings. They won't be here next week."
School officials would not release the name of the student, but said he was still attending classes at New Utrecht. They said they notified New York police and that the matter was turned over to the FBI.
"I don't know what the status of the FBI's investigation is," Finney said."



posted on Sep, 27 2004 @ 09:36 AM
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I’m not going to address the bulk of your post, mainly because the blatant disregard for the facts that characterizes you first paragraph pretty much sets the standard by which the rest of your post should be judged.


Originally posted by twitchy
I wasn't able to find the information I wanted to post in regards to the Israeli Nationals that reseived emails telling them not to go to towrk on 9-11 (they worked in the WTC) I have it somewhere adn will keep looking, but ehre are some related articles that i thought you guys would find interesting. I wonder if we aren't bombing and invading the wrong countries?




www.snopes.com...



posted on Sep, 27 2004 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark
I’m not going to address the bulk of your post, mainly because the blatant disregard for the facts that characterizes you first paragraph pretty much sets the standard by which the rest of your post should be judged.

What are you talking about? The 'bulk' you are referring to is a collection of articles, and the only disregard for the facts it would seem is your unwillingness to address them. I didn't know you were in a position to 'judge' my post to begin with. I presented some information, factual information from what I gather to be reliable sources, and you are going to descredit that information, and myself, by not addressing them? LOL
If you want to debunk ifnormation, discredit sources, etc. you should try addressing the issues they raise, it's much more effective than "characterizing' somebody you don't know.
you a regualr fan of www.snopes.com? That's even funnier.
Anyway, back to reality...



[edit on 27-9-2004 by twitchy]



posted on Sep, 27 2004 @ 11:47 AM
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Twitchy, the fact is, you started out your post reiterating the discredited report that Jews were told to stay home on 9/11. Not only has this been debunked, and debunked so thoroughly by a number of sources, not just Snopes, that the mere fact that you clam some validity to this tells me quite a bit about you.

Perhaps you would care to elaborate on the following statement:


I wonder if we aren't bombing and invading the wrong countries?


BTW: From the context of your post, I think you made a grammatical error in that statement. Your use of the word country should be singular.



posted on Sep, 27 2004 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark
Twitchy, the fact is, you started out your post reiterating the discredited report that Jews were told to stay home on 9/11. Not only has this been debunked, and debunked so thoroughly by a number of sources... ?

Yeah alot of information has been "debunked" hasn't it. Bush's connection to Kenneth Lay was "debunked", the CIA's recruiting of Osama Bin Laden was 'debunked', Bush Family ties to the Nazi Party inthe 40's was 'debunked', the slaughter of the american indian was 'debunked', as soon as I find the info I will give you the IP address the sender of the email used to warn them with if you like. You need to look at who does the debunking. Debunked and subverted are two different terms, often meaning the same thing.


Originally posted by HowardRoark
BTW: From the context of your post, I think you made a grammatical error in that statement. Your use of the word country should be singular.

Uh no, I meant countries as in Plural, you know Iraq and Afghanistan. That is two, hence the plural.


Here is some more info you can 'debunk', they weren't the only one's that got a little advanced warning...

"Background AttackAftermath Evidence Disinformation Analysis Memorial
Attack Warnings People who Avoided the Airlines and the Twin Towers Much has been reported about how warnings of attacks by Muslim extremists in the year leading up to 9/11/01 were ignored. So far no official has been fired or otherwise punished for his or her failure to act on such information. What is more informative than who failed to act on a tip, is who acted on a tip. A number of people apparently knew to stay clear of the World Trade Center on September 11th, 2001. Government Officials and Business LeadersThere is evidence that a group of Pentagon officials was warned to avoid the attack targets. Newsweek reported: 2 Three weeks ago there was another warning that a terrorist strike might be imminent - On September 10, Newsweek has learned, a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns.
A number of business leaders who would normally have been in the World Trade Center, were instead at a meeting hosted by Warren Buffet on September 11th at Offutt Air Force Base in Omaha, Nebraska. That group included Anne Tatlock, CEO of Fiduciary Trust Inc., a company that occupied five floors on or above the 90th floor of the South Tower. 3 (This is the same Air Force Base that George W. Bush would fly to later that day. It has an underground command center.) 4 San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown admitted to having received a warning from what he described as his airport security late Monday evening, just hours before the attack. 5 Salman Rushdie, who is under the continuous protection of Scotland Yard, was prevented from flying on September 11th, 2001. Ariel Sharon, who was scheduled to give an address to Israeli support groups in New York City on September 11th, cancelled his plans the day before. Privilleged CompaniesAnother group of people that received warnings in advance of the attack were employees of Odigo, the instant messaging service. Two employees received e-mail messages two hours before the first World Trade Center assault, predicting the attack. 6 According to reporter Christopher Bollyn, Zim American Israeli Shipping Co. broke a lease in order to vacate the World Trade Center just days before the attack. Bollyn's source claims that Zim's lease extended through the end of the year and that the termination cost $50,000."

"Trivia question: What mayor of a major west coast city claimed just hours after 9-11 that he'd been warned not to fly the week of 9-11 by what he described as his 'airport security.' None other than Willie Brown!
Details: propagandamatrix.com... www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/09/12/MN229389.DTL Think about it. Where else on earth would Brown get the message not to fly on a particular day? The airport says there was no advisory in place.
Note that when asked, Brown clammed up as to the source. Why? Searching...
Turns out my hunch ain't a news flash. Just the sussing out of a significant, but very obscure piece of 9-11 trivia.
On May 17, 2002, Pacifica Radio reported that Rice was the source of the call to Brown. See side bar: www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/05/Bush_knew2.html
So in case you missed it: THE ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT FOR NATIONAL SECURITY AFFAIRS CONDOLEEZZA RICE CALLED A FRIEND THE DAY BEFORE SEPTEMBER 11TH AND TOLD HIM TO STAY OUT OF THE AIR THAT WEEK"




[edit on 27-9-2004 by twitchy]



posted on Sep, 27 2004 @ 08:35 PM
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Oh, no you don't.

You started out by repeating a old and clearly false rumor about Jews at the WTC on 9/11, then you stated: "I wonder if we aren't bombing and invading the wrong countries?"

When I pointed out that you used the plural, when the singular form would have been more in keeping with the tenure of your post, you replied:

"Uh no, I meant countries as in Plural, you know Iraq and Afghanistan. That is two, hence the plural. "

It would be totally illogical for you to be talking about Iraq and Afghanistan in the context of that post.

We did bomb and invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Therefore you had to have been implying that we should be bombing and invading a different country altogether.

Based on the context of your post, I can only assume that you were trying to suggest that we should be bombing Israel.

That is what I meant when I suggested that you should use the singular form.



posted on Sep, 27 2004 @ 10:43 PM
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I think I have managed to read just about every theory out there concerning explosions in the towers. Some are rife with incorrect inforamtion, faked and manipulated videos, while others deftly capture your imagination. One theory has it that it was discovered that the lives of the buildings were far less than anticipated, the height of the finished product rendering it impossible to perform the necessary maintenance without enormous expense, and so required collecting on the insurance policies.

I watched a PBS documentary the other day where the architect admitted rather coyly that he may have overestimated the buildings' structural strength as well as the interior planning for adverse events. As well, it seems for economic reasons some corners were cut.

As much as I lean toward the WTC being an inside job, I do not believe it was brought down by explosives. Building 7 may have been, but I don't see it that way for the towers.

The buildings' interior cores consisted of lightweight vertical beams surrounding the elevator shafts and covered with a double layer of drywall. Obviously, the interior offices were also constructed of drywall, or the majority at least. The horizontal supports were also lightweight steel held together at each end by some sort of joint. The floors themselves were of concrete.

It seems very plausible to me that when the aircrafts severed the outer skin they also cut through the flimsy drywall of the interior offices, while the ensuing fires of furniture, and materiel were raged by the jets fuel. I had at one time a link from ABC if memory serves, of the transcripts of calls from within the buildings, along with survivor statements. Unfortunately my laptop's hard drive died and I have not been able to find those again. But, accounts from callers within the buildings were reporting intense heat, bodies strewn about the elevator areas and buckling floors. More than one in fact, was cut short just as they reported hearing explosions.

But I would expect explosions in a building with generators in use, and electrical cables running throughout. I would expect too that the crumbling of the building from above would generate explosive like sounds. In watching some of the better videos of the collapse, I cannot help but notice that the point of collapse, externally anyway, starts at the floors with the most structural damage, and while I do not underestimate a brilliant mastermind, I cannot believe that explosives were so well aligned. The floors themselves were concrete, the heaviest weight of all which lay horizontally, and which when buckling, would have pulled asunder the interior framework from their moorings on the already weakend and sliced vertical outer beams.

The video to me, seems to support the pancake theory in that the most affected areas gave way causing massive weight to collapse upon itself. Now as for the speed, well I don't know, I am not an engineer.

We know that the CIA has engaged in some rather underhanded plotting in the past, and in order to do this, I assume that there were and still are members whose obligation to the state lies with carrying out orders whatever they may be. I can certainly envision a well planned plot whereby the CIA infiltrates a terrorist organization, recruits same under the guise of being members of America's enemy, finances and arranges training for a deed where only the terrorists will be implicated and only these terrorists will martyr themselves. And I only have to remember who was head of the CIA prior to Clinton's administration, to understand the possibility of connection.


Edited to add;
I also recall reading that someone connected with the WTC towers was asked in early 2001 if an airliner impact would result in collapse, the answer was no. Consequently, I believe that the intent was not to bring down the structures but to perpetuate the theory of a terrorist attack.


[edit on 9/27/04 by SomewhereinBetween]



posted on Sep, 27 2004 @ 11:16 PM
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For what ever it's worth.

Odigo


Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers
received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September
11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been
cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the
FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.

Micha Macover, CEO of the company, said the two workers received the
messages and immediately after the terror attack informed the company's
management, which immediately contacted the Israeli security services,
which brought in the FBI.

"I have no idea why the message was sent to these two workers, who don't
know the sender. It may just have been someone who was joking and turned
out they accidentally got it right. And I don't know if our information
was useful in any of the arrests the FBI has made," said Macover. Odigo
is a U.S.-based company whose headquarters are in New York, with offices
in Herzliya.

As an instant messaging service, Odigo users are not limited to sending
messages only to people on their "buddy" list, as is the case with ICQ,
the other well-known Israeli instant messaging application.
www.freeworldalliance.com...




As reported on Pacifica on May 17, 2002, Condolezza Rice stated on CNN that she warned Willie Brown not to board an airpline on 9/11/01 some 8 hours before he was scheduled to fly.
See www.thetruthseeker.co.uk...



Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.
www.rense.com...



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