The Ultimate Enlightenment Explanation & "How To" Discussion

reply to post by Eternium

Why try to become enlightened? Is it because you're trying to beat the game?

Because that is the next evolutionary step for mankind. You really think the brutality that humans commit is fine and dandy? Yeah ....o.k. ....good luck with that one. The look on your face and your whole philosophy of "life" would change soon as you saw first hand atrocities of genocide or child sex brothels.

Where else but here and now are you supposed to go to?

Did you not read page 1? Go within Brother. Observe the Observer, or Unknow all things til Grace visits you in Unknowing to reveal the Absolute Prior to all things, or the other 100+ methods.

Any effort towards enlightenment is a step away from "enlightenment".

That's actually a crock of horse sh!*. I tracked down some heavy hitters completely Enlightened and in "It" for decades now and brought up the whole "neo-advaita-there-is-nothing-you-can-do movement and came to find out that its pure garbage.

The people who say that there is nothing you can do are part of 2 camps:
1. They were near an Enlightened Master who's Awareness was so Super-Expanded, that just being in his presence, was Enough to Expand their own Awareness. The person going through this didn't understand how it happened and concluded, "there's nothing you can do."
2. By shear dumb luck, or perhaps grace, the person dropped into Enlightenment and it happened all so fast, that the mind/ego/logic was not quick enough to fathom all the little intricacies.

Both 1 and 2 happened to me as well, so I spent a good 4-5 years Observing how it all works within and it matches up to the writings of the Masters.

Ordinary everyday consciousness is "IT" and there's no need to do anything to change it, because if you do, you are missing the point.

Yeah, good luck with that one. Ordinary everyday consciousness is sleepwalking zombification covered up by world-system programming and animal instincts. It is what is responsible for the world's atrocities, murders, rapes, molestations, greed, etc.

The Enlightened State of Being is the daytime to the Ordinary everyday consciousness Night time. It's like using a Quantum Super Computer compared to using your fingers to calculate. You got tricked by the neo-advaita there's nothing you can do crowd.

That's why it took 10 year to finally be able to make this thread, to see through it all and really know it through direct experience, even if there is no "I" there anymore.

Originally posted by dominicus

Any effort towards enlightenment is a step away from "enlightenment".

That's actually a crock of horse sh!*. I tracked down some heavy hitters completely Enlightened and in "It" for decades now and brought up the whole "neo-advaita-there-is-nothing-you-can-do movement and came to find out that its pure garbage.

The people who say that there is nothing you can do are part of 2 camps:
1. They were near an Enlightened Master who's Awareness was so Super-Expanded, that just being in his presence, was Enough to Expand their own Awareness. The person going through this didn't understand how it happened and concluded, "there's nothing you can do."
2. By shear dumb luck, or perhaps grace, the person dropped into Enlightenment and it happened all so fast, that the mind/ego/logic was not quick enough to fathom all the little intricacies.

Both 1 and 2 happened to me as well, so I spent a good 4-5 years Observing how it all works within and it matches up to the writings of the Masters.

So if it 'just happened' to you then you should see that 'it just happens'. It just happens (the me falls away) and then the me comes back to try to find a method to keep it. All the while the me is there trying to keep it or find it - it hides.

reply to post by dominicus

It 'happened' there and then you went out to find out what it was that had happened - you wanted to find out so found writings and descriptions of it so you could understand the why and how.
The why and how might make you believe that if the why and how are shared that it will 'enlighten' others but I am not convinced.
I am not saying that reading about or being interested in this stuff won't do it - if one is ripe. One can have absolutely no knowledge of this stuff and it just happens and then one seeks to understand what happened. It happened like that for Eckhart Tolle.

I think this stuff is fine to write and share, because ultimately, it is us teaching ourselves.
Your vision is for you...... what flows from the fountain is correct for you at wherever you are right now.

So what might be an obstacle is assuming that the messages are for someone else!



It makes me laugh when people start trying to describe what the ego is, and saying it is the part that thinks it is it's emotions, it is it's sensations...

Has anyone actually thought they were their emotions? Or that they were their sensations???


The only time I have met people who did, they were in the psychiatric hospital, and the reason they thought they were what they were feeling was because they had a faulty sense of self/other separation! They couldn't see a separation between the things they touched or tasted or saw or felt, and their self.

With an ego, they would be able to separate.

A healthy ego (even in the sense of an ego which is at the stage of recognizing the most superficial boundries of self- the physical envelope) can prevent that confusion.

The whole idea that a specific spiritual teaching or perspective is for everyone, universal and static, doesn't seem to me, to be reliable.



Instead of these very black and white, (good - evil) organizations, some that are a bit more complex can be interesting too! I find Jungs work to be sometimes better suited at describing inner realities of this sort-
Like his theories regarding the Animus and the Anima?

Because sometimes, to hear people describe what part of them is this despised evil "ego" sounds like they are talking about their animus or anima. Or the Shadow comes into play (another symbol he described).

What I like about his way of organizing this is that it is adaptable to reality- you can actually deal with these parts of yourself according to the theory and get exactly the sort of results expected by the theory. It works in practice- not only to be experienced by the individual, but even as witnessed by others.

The bad ego theories so often generate behaviors that don't work with the theory.

But whatever, to each his own.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

So if it 'just happened' to you then you should see that 'it just happens'.

When I spoke of #2:

2. By shear dumb luck, or perhaps grace, the person dropped into Enlightenment and it happened all so fast, that the mind/ego/logic was not quick enough to fathom all the little intricacies.

I was actively on a mission to find my Self. Prodding, asking, listening, reading, sitting, watching, observing, absorbing. Read my first Zen Koan, wrestled with it for 15-20 minutes, then "It" happened. So fast that mind didn't catch it. But it did catch 1 juicy item: Awareness is Prior to ego/mind, and the Source of Awareness is even prior to Awareness.

Regardless, all the "Doing" was necessary.

When I wrote #1:

1. They were near an Enlightened Master who's Awareness was so Super-Expanded, that just being in his presence, was Enough to Expand their own Awareness. The person going through this didn't understand how it happened and concluded, "there's nothing you can do."

A year after the initial "Taste" .....i was sitting with a Mystic friend with the Halo-Like expanded Awareness. He leaned over and said something to me (don't remember what, was insignificant) and his close proximity expanded my own Awareness like in the photos of halos on page 3.

Since then, it's all much more deeper, clearer, permanent, and still ongoing ....like subconscious spring-cleaning.

It just happens (the me falls away) and then the me comes back to try to find a method to keep it.

Yes but most don't get this, and saying "there's nothing you can do" doesn't help unless one is in the close proximity of a Master who themselves is "It".

On the other hand, there are 100+ methods that will not only directly reveal your above insight, but also further methods "clean out" the remnants so the "me" no longer arises, but is settled in and melted into "Source."

All the while the me is there trying to keep it or find it - it hides.

Yeah, nail on the head. That's still "subconscious spring-cleaning mode". The way to end the "me", is to follow it to its source when falling asleep, and watch it emerge from there upon the body waking.

If you follow it, "The 'I-Thought" ......and find where it emerges out of, it then falls away and all living from then on is spontaneously done without thinking about it.........

reply to post by dominicus


It just happened here and I have heard of many it just happened to. You were seeking and I have also heard of many it happened to who were seeking the 'idea of enlightenment' because it is only an 'idea' prior to the happening.
Until it happens it will be scoffed at by most - I have noticed.
The initial awakening drives one to want to keep it - it is rarely permanent to begin with - there is a flip flopping between meing and being.

reply to post by dominicus


OK, but what happens to the mountains of karmas that you have accumulated throughout numerous births since the beginning of time?

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by dominicus

 

OK, but what happens to the mountains of karmas that you have accumulated throughout numerous births since the beginning of time?

One realizes there is only presence and time disappears. You carry quilt and dread because of the belief in time. If you come to this moment and see that this is new and fresh and all is clean here.
It is thought that speaks the 'me story' - which pulls you down - weighs you down. Throw off the time based believed in 'story of you' and realize that there is only this that is here now.
Lighten the load.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
One realizes there is only presence and time disappears. You carry quilt and dread because of the belief in time. If you come to this moment and see that this is new and fresh and all is clean here.
It is thought that speaks the 'me story' - which pulls you down - weighs you down. Throw off the time based believed in 'story of you' and realize that there is only this that is here now.
Lighten the load.

Yes, I do follow what you are saying, but let me pose a more specific question.

Say, for instance, I owe a past associate the sum of $100,000. Will that debt be wiped clean automatically if I divest myself of ego and all the mind/time involvements?

Originally posted by mysticnoon

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
One realizes there is only presence and time disappears. You carry quilt and dread because of the belief in time. If you come to this moment and see that this is new and fresh and all is clean here.
It is thought that speaks the 'me story' - which pulls you down - weighs you down. Throw off the time based believed in 'story of you' and realize that there is only this that is here now.
Lighten the load.

Yes, I do follow what you are saying, but let me pose a more specific question.

Say, for instance, I owe a past associate the sum of $100,000. Will that debt be wiped clean automatically if I divest myself of ego and all the mind/time involvements?

No because it is a present debt but the story about it talks about past.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
No because it is a present debt but the story about it talks about past.

But are not ALL debts present debts, if time is an illusion?

Originally posted by mysticnoon

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
No because it is a present debt but the story about it talks about past.

But are not ALL debts present debts, if time is an illusion?

Of course. But you were speaking about carrying karma over time not money or lack of money (debt)

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by mysticnoon

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
No because it is a present debt but the story about it talks about past.

But are not ALL debts present debts, if time is an illusion?

Of course. But you were speaking about carrying karma over time not money or lack of money (debt)

Karma is just that, an existing debt or credit. The money debt was by way of a specific example.

It is irrelevant when the karmic debt was incurred, as the debt itself continues to exist in the here and now.

So I ask my question again: what happens with these existing karmic debts in the philosophy or perspective you espouse?

reply to post by mysticnoon


Your original question was this:

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by dominicus

 

OK, but what happens to the mountains of karmas that you have accumulated throughout numerous births since the beginning of time?

I am not now sure what you are asking with the above after reading your last post?
I was reading it as in what your experience of life is (karma) and how to remove the build up (accumulated throughout numerous births). It is the idea you have about yourself which colours your world.

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by dominicus

 

OK, but what happens to the mountains of karmas that you have accumulated throughout numerous births since the beginning of time?

It depends which school of thought you go by as far as this question goes. While this Thread is intended to be "How To" guide to Enlightenment, so you can experience it for yourself, many surrounding details are dependent on more people going within and finding out for themselves what they find there.

Various schools of thought say that once Enlightenment is Uncovered and Lived, that no more Karma is being accumulated, and all past karma is transcended.

Some other schools say, no more is accumulated, but that the rest that still exists gets rapidly burned up in the rest of this lifetime.

The only One-Way ticket to Transcend the endless cycles of birth and death is through Enlightenment regardless of how you get "there".

Then we have the matter of Fate, destiny, etc. That can also bring up various schools of thought.

As far as monetary debts, us living in this world, we have to sort of live within this system.When I went to college full time, and worked full time, and lived on my own ...I was getting financial aid. Then my senior year, my mom got married and because f that, the Gov wouldn't give me any aid so I had to take out 15-20k in loans to finish, and I haven't needed to use my degree not one time since then for any job I've ever had.

So I don't feel its right for me to pay that money because its unfair that they would cut of aid for my education, all because my mother got married, when I wasn't even living with her. ST ill I pay the minimum amount and get get deferments as much as I can.

Jesus said, "Give to Cesar what is Cesar's, give to God what is God's." Personally, if I was to skip out on paying back my debts by moving to another country, and never paying it back, it wouldn't hold me back from Enlightenment and I doubt it would accumulated karma for not paying back, because loans and money is just imagined illusion based value. In socialist countries, education is free. in U.S. its an arm and a leg of life-long debt prison. So who's right? It's relative.

2 other theories of Karma:
1. That there are within you Multiple 'I's" the angry I, the Artist I, the Lustful I, Dr. Jeckyl I, Mr. Hide I, etc etc ...each one of these I's with their own set of karma's. Any one of which can manifest in your life, unless Enlightenment happens, and the multiple I's are seen as Illusion, purified, and let go of.

2. There is within you a White Room, in which your consciousness can enter. In that White room is like a swimming pool with a bunch of bubbles slowly rising up to the surface. These bubbles are both the manifestations of good and bad karma's all depending on a vast array of factors. Some people can dive deep into this pool, pull the plug, and drain it out of themselves so there is only God's Will from then on out, spontaneous living with a blank slate, everything being transcended.

That's the thing, we can literally break down volumes of Karma theories spending years on it, instead of following blueprints for Enlightenment to happen.

See that Buddhist 10,000 things. Everything can be a distraction from Enlightenment, including reading about minor details and arguing about Enlightenment.

You're still trying to beat the game, as if you're different from the game, it, that you feel compelled to "evolve". That's called chasing your own tail. If enlightenment is evolving then you can keep it. I like drinking water when I'm thirsty.

Originally posted by Eternium
You're still trying to beat the game, as if you're different from the game, it, If enlightenment is evolving then you can keep it. I like drinking water when I'm thirsty.

There's no game to beat. We are not from here, we are not the body, we are not the mind ...we are something entirely beyond any bias, or beating any games. If you're happy in regular everyday limited consciousness, floating to and fro like a bottle in the ocean carried by waves of fate, then good for you.

This thread is an invitation to go see for yourself what is within you, to meet God face to face, to find your real self. Free blueprints and maps to get there. What most people do instead is they take quick glance over it and speculate an illusion based assumption, when the correct stance should be to with hold all judgement until one can see for themselves.

that you feel compelled to "evolve". That's called chasing your own tail.

You've been evolving since you were born, in thought, intellect, knowledge, wisdom, physically, etc. Is there not a difference in you from the time you were 1 month old, to now?

There is no tail chasing, there is only going forward.

If enlightenment is evolving then you can keep it. I like drinking water when I'm thirsty.

Your bias blinds you. I've done just about everything there is to do on this ball of dirt. Lived a fast life, fast cars, fast women, some fame, traveled, substance abuse, owned houses, success, 6 figure banks accounts, the finest food, and you know what?

Absolutely NONE of that matches the brilliance of the things experienced on the road to Enlightenment. If the richest man in the world got a single glimpse or taste of it, they'd cash it all in to rest in the Source of Consciousness, Being, Bliss.

Oh, and regular everyday frame of mind consciousness isn't "It" either. But hey, in your bias bubble, you've already made your mind so none of this matters or applies to you anyway. It's for the fractional few that get it and take this to heart by seeing for themselves.

I understand where you coming from though, and have nothing but Love for the REAL you that's in there.

Originally posted by dominicus

You've been evolving since you were born, in thought, intellect, knowledge, wisdom, physically, etc. Is there not a difference in you from the time you were 1 month old, to now?

There is no tail chasing, there is only going forward.

That evolving happened of itself didn't it so? Growing my brain happened spontaneously.
Trying to wield something with the ego, to evolve, is like trying to pick up a bucket of water with the number 3.

You can't have forward without backwards. No matter how high you think you'll climb up on an spiritual evolution circle, you'll always find yourself in the same place.


Paradise is always here and now, looking for it somewhere higher is chasing your own tail.


I'll ask you this, is it serious? Is life serious? Where does the urge to evolve and help others arise from? Ask yourself that. Who is it that seeks to better himself? You must find a serious problem with the world if you feel so driven to make it "better". There will never be better without worse.

reply to post by Eternium

That evolving happened of itself didn't it so? Growing my brain happened spontaneously. Trying to wield something with the ego, to evolve, is like trying to pick up a bucket of water with the number 3.

Yes I am in agreement with everything above, however, to a certain extent, a tiny amount of will is still necessary. In wisdom, the ego finally begins to work along side you, showing itself to be a farse. From that point on, it is a co-worker in surrender, letting go, being, etc.

You can't have forward without backwards. No matter how high you think you'll climb up on an spiritual evolution circle, you'll always find yourself in the same place.

It's not about going climbing ever higher, but more so, more and more Truth revealing itself and all obstructions falling off.

I know what your getting at. No matter where you go, there you are, and all that business. What I'm referring to, is what is there prior to yourself.

Paradise is always here and now, looking for it somewhere higher is chasing your own tail.

And yet paradoxically you found that paradise by looking and chasing. Ask the average Joe if they are in Paradise in the here and now and you'll get 99 out of 100 looks of confusion.

I'll ask you this, is it serious? Is life serious? Where does the urge to evolve and help others arise from?

All relative. Where does it arise from? From the Oneness, you are me, I am you, everyone is One. There is no urge, the empathy and Love and help are all spontaneous.

Who is it that seeks to better himself?

Everyone does. Do you not? Unless you've found the Truth prior to the Who Is, then you seek to better yourself. But there is a place and Truth prior to all that.

You must find a serious problem with the world if you feel so driven to make it "better".

I have some friends in India, and in their small town there is a child brothel, which they are fighting to bring it to an end. I can give you my contacts there and you can visit and see for yourself what goes on in there first hand, and then you can ask yourself that question above.

Or you can go to a few African countries and go check out some genocide and ask yourself that question again.

It's Neo-Advaita B.S based on misconception and sheltering, that there is nothing you can do and there is nothing to fix or better. It'll die out in about 5-10 years.

There will never be better without worse.

There is a reality prior to those two above, an experiential One that embraces all.

So, is it that serious? Or is it rather playful, and those living in Africa and India dealing with hardships is really just existence doing it to itself. Just how it does pleasurable things like sex, parties, gatherings, sky diving, flowering plants, and fruiting trees. If so, is it serious?

You can't get better without also getting worse. The only thing that might stop this planet from going to hell is if we don't get in the way of it doing so.

The ultimate question is, is it serious? Or is it playful?