The Ultimate Enlightenment Explanation & "How To" Discussion

But when you seek contentment in things outside of yourself, outside of what is here now, then your contentment will be delayed and you will suffer. So if you are content with lack, and content with not having your desires fulfilled, then you will never be without.

reply to post by smithjustinb



I think I am approaching life at this point through this perspective. I have known humilty I have known wealth I have known poverty. The more I strive from an ego centric perspective the more I am setting myself up for disappointment.


From earthling

In Africa , people still think that there are witches, last week, a woman was tortured and burned to death because they thought she was a witch

Please take this kindly earthling that is your limited perspective. Unless we know more of the circumstances whose to say that she wasnt a dark practitioner, not that I would entertain for a moment that the result is justified.

I have practised " witchcraft" and seen it in action. I have seen "demonic possession" in action. In revival meetings I have felt this power of the spirit entering but I think a lot of it is a manipulation on the part of the minister through hypnotism or their ego allowing to manipulate for control. I have found that many like to be sheep and allow a powerful minister to lead.

See here is my dilemma, having studied much and various over the years, I cant help but come to some conclusions

1) by detachment, is this the ultimate survival and pain reliever ever invented for a practical reason...ie during times of extreme persecution was this form of escape into the mind/ negation of the outside stimulii a coping mechanism?

2) having read various threads like " John Lears theory regarding the Soul Collector

www.abovetopsecret.com...

or Iridium Is The Massive Conspiracy

www.abovetopsecret.com...

3) does the idea of doing away with the soul make the pain more bearable? Am I still scared of heaven or hell even though I understand they are inventions of abrahaimic theology and that we create our own heaven or hell?

What if there is a soul catcher out there? What if the TPTB or aliens are harvesting souls.

If the above assumptions prove to have some basis in reality can I afford to sit back and not worry about the soul attached to this container? Why should my soul not reach nirvana or progress to the next reincarnation?

Sure live in the moment, live the moment as its your last day on earth. And yet there is a part of me (yeah I know, not the real me/ego) that wants to think, to know that it all hasnt been in vain.

Insights?
thanks kindly

reply to post by TheConstruKctionofLight

I think I am approaching life at this point through this perspective. I have known humilty I have known wealth I have known poverty. The more I strive from an ego centric perspective the more I am setting myself up for disappointment.

There is a "life experiences" saturation point. Once you reach it and you've seen and done most of what there is to see/do, you understand that anything more is a rehash. When the saturation point is reached, wisdom is gained by understanding the insatiability of the "world system" and that any happiness/completion will be found spiritually or through enlightenment.

Same thing with book knowledge. You read so much, until you've read it all. You reach saturation and then the next step is direct experience

1) by detachment, is this the ultimate survival and pain reliever ever invented for a practical reason...ie during times of extreme persecution was this form of escape into the mind/ negation of the outside stimulii a coping mechanism?

Detachment can/will lead to enlightenment. It is "the way" in various paths. Unknow everything, including yourself, remain in that unknowing, and that Unknowing will transform into the revealing of Enlightenment. However there are various ways "there." ANother is through Love, grace, certain mantra prayers, etc etc

2) having read various threads like " John Lears theory regarding the Soul Collector

Various spiritual paths speak of how to counter the traps and things you find in the afterlife. Man of the Christian Gnostic tests speak of continually rejecting everything you see and all you come across by always saying that you are "A son of the Pre-existent One." The One that has always been prior to all thing. This seems to be a key that unlocks all the gates to return "home" so to speak.

in Buddhism, the book of the dead also speaks of rejecting all heavens/hells to return to the Supreme State.

3) does the idea of doing away with the soul make the pain more bearable? Am I still scared of heaven or hell even though I understand they are inventions of abrahaimic theology and that we create our own heaven or hell?

You are soul inhabiting an avatar body. All views associated with everything here on earth, is "earth programming". Unknow all of it and eventually there is no fear, troubles, everything Zen, ego death, good to go

What if there is a soul catcher out there? What if the TPTB or aliens are harvesting souls.

I think thats one of the several reasons Christ came, and Buddha had it figured out, and numerous enlightened beings. Enlightenment = Ego death. When the ego is dead, there is nothing to remain trapped/tricked in the afterlife besides pure essence/soul which will return to the source like a drop of water falls into the ocean.

If the above assumptions prove to have some basis in reality can I afford to sit back and not worry about the soul attached to this container? Why should my soul not reach nirvana or progress to the next reincarnation? Sure live in the moment, live the moment as its your last day on earth. And yet there is a part of me (yeah I know, not the real me/ego) that wants to think, to know that it all hasnt been in vain. Insights? thanks kindly

Yeah that's all ego/mind worries. Let em go and continue on the path. Many things have been in vain, for example wasting precious time on irrelevant things in life, which could have been used for gaining wisdom/enlightenment. Keep to your priorities, work, bills, family, helping others, but number 1 in life should be Enlightenment, the progress towards it, and then explaining it to others.

That's the only thing that will change the world and make it better, since the number 1 cause of everything we see that disgusts us is caused by ego/ignorance/illusion. Start with yourself, uncover the correct view, then everyone around you will begin to change.

WIth all the trans-humanism technology coming, we are heading there anyway. We will have brain links setup to the internet and to individuals and groups. Inherently nuetral but could be used for good and bad. Imagine a Enlightened monk, makes the Enlightened state available for upload for free. Its still another 20-40 years away but its coming, and there will be a war over uploading enlightenment vs. uploading more vain illusions.

reply to post by dominicus


Thank you very much

God is ultimate enlightenment.

reply to post by spiritoftruth111


God indeed is the ultimate enlightenment. The Book of Thomas is something beautifully telling and revealing to read. It is the journey of a seeker 'mankind' inside the world he can and cannot see.

gnosis.org...

"And it is obvious to me that the truth is difficult to perform before men." The savior answered, saying, "If the things that are visible to you are obscure to you, how can you hear about the things that are not visible? If the deeds of the truth that are visible in the world are difficult for you to perform, how indeed, then, shall you perform those that pertain to the exalted height and to the pleroma which are not visible? And how shall you be called 'laborers'? In this respect you are apprentices, and have not yet received the height of perfection." Now Thomas answered and said to the savior, "Tell us about these things that you say are not visible, but are hidden from us."

That which is hidden from us often times stands before our very eyes, only we have not learned to see through these eyes in a way that implements not only our physical eyes but our spirit eyes. We are Spirit, soul, body and mind. How then is it that we only use our body eyes and then expect to know what truth is? Should we not employ the balance of all that we have been created with, to truly look upon the face of truth in all things?

Hence why mankind stands blind and reeling into his ultimate dwindling demise. It is in the end denial of God even in something as simple as what we choose to see. We are lost inside the battles of our raging emotions and not understood life wounds. This daily robs us of life, persecuting us with tormenting regrets and prevents us from having the ability to use our true 'eyes'.

If we put our irrational selves aside we would 'see' that God has been showing us His Splendor all along and even directing us in what choices to make. So much so that if we actually just stopped interrupting Him with our irrational fear based behaviors we would be receptive to how He is directing us.

The things He lets us know He wants for us are designed to ultimately free us from the snares we have been chained to and learned to live with. If we pay heed and let go of our fears and our doubts then He can bless us and cut those strongholds that serve to kill any measure of happiness intended for us. The enemy serves to rob us of God's blessings and our emancipation of all the devil's stronghold's.

We have to simply just let go of our fears and doubts that come directly from the enemy to keep us prisoners in a world of lies that chain us to unhappiness, fulfillment and constant loss. All we have to do is acknowledge and listen to the signs God sends directly in countless ways. Those signs and messages are all around us. All we have to do is put aside all the muddled feelings of fear, doubt, insecurities and self-defeat and just take a step in faith, accept that you can 'see' with your true Spirit eyes and true Spirit heart, having faith in God that He will only ever lead you into your true enlightenment and maybe even we may in so doing know some true happiness here.

Do not throw away the gifts He puts before you and makes obvious no matter how impossible it might look or how big your fears are. Do not put limitations on God because there is nothing He cannot do if He Wills it.

"The devil you know is better than the angel you don't know" is a key saying that applies to the chained life we often remain living in because we lack true faith and acknowledgement even though the signs He sends us individually are all around us. Robbing us of all the gifts God laid out for us that ironically would free us from 'that devil" that we know so well.

Often we think we are striving,reaching and abiding in truth towards enlightenment when it is clear that we continue to make the same choices that ensnare us ever deeper inside the prison of the 'that devil' we know. Yet in some convoluted and twisted way we tell ourselves that we are 'abiding' still in Him and His Truths.

Even when we think we are clinging to the truth we can be absolute hypocrites.

reply to post by Elemetia

God indeed is the ultimate enlightenment. The Book of Thomas is something beautifully telling and revealing to read. It is the journey of a seeker 'mankind' inside the world he can and cannot see.

When doing cross cultural studies from a Christian Mystic perspective, I eventually came across Zen, and Zen Koan (you know like; "What's the sound of One hand clapping?" ...type stuff). Well I wrestled with my 1st Koan, and BOOM I was thrust beyond ego/mind and absorbed into the Source of all things ......Just from wrestling with Koan of all means ...go figure. Well you guess how much that expanded my view point of who is right and what Truth is.

After that, Zen led me into Non-Duality, which would also lead me into direct experiences. I was trying resolve and connect if Jesus was also Non-dual and found his saying "I and the Father are One" pretty much solidified it for me. Once I came across the Gospel of Thomas, that was it...... the final connecting piece. Jesus is like a Zen Nondual master in that Gospel. I adore it. Also its thus far the most oldest of all the surviving earliest NT antiquity texts.

The rest of the reply..... spot on!!! Wouldn't add much else, nor take away

There is nothing you can do to be enlightened, all our efforts towards enlightenment are phony ~ Krishnamurti

Because there's no one at home to do anything about anything.

reply to post by dominicus


You do realize that claiming to be enlightened is the ultimate EGO self aggrandizement you can possibly make?

I run into "hipsters" daily talking about how enlightened they are. If that's enlightenment; I don't want it.

The truly enlightened, never talk about it; they just are.

I'm calling cheese...

reply to post by olaru12

You do realize that claiming to be enlightened is the ultimate EGO self aggrandizement you can possibly make?

Is there a specific "claim" or "self aggrandizement" that you can point out for me anywhere in this post? Or is it mental speculation and a jump to conclusions?

I take it you already followed the "How To" guide and read all the supporting links long enough to see for yourself whether or not this is true?

I run into "hipsters" daily talking about how enlightened they are. If that's enlightenment; I don't want it.

Cool !!! Good for you!!! I wouldn't want their state, nor would I want your state, let alone my own state..... check the post again and see for yourself if its true, other wise its all projections/speculations.

The truly enlightened, never talk about it; they just are.

Awesome paradox...lol. How would you know the above? WHo would have told you that and how would they know?

I'm calling cheese...

Projections/speculations. That's all it is unless you see for yourself. Doesn't matter what I say. If you don't see for yourself, you will live the rest of your life spewing projections/speculations

Originally posted by Eternium
There is nothing you can do to be enlightened, all our efforts towards enlightenment are phony ~ Krishnamurti

Because there's no one at home to do anything about anything.

I call bullsh**. Krishnamurti was one of the leaders and creators of the whole super negation movement, which says there is no one home, nothing you can do, and leaves it at that. Sailor Bob does it too. Its Neo-Advaita and its a crock.

While in one respect, he is right about it. In the other respect, there is much that can be done to make the conditions more in line with realizing exactly what he's talking about. The problem with the Neo-Advaitins is that the realization has happened so fast, that the ego/mind failed to understand exactly what happened.

In the Classical Advaita, it is broken down exactly step by step, pretty much how I posted it on the front page of this thread. Observe the Observer, which expands, loosens from the body, is Non-Local, and eventually collapses in the Heart, where the Source of the Observer is. What is then experienced (paradoxically with no experiencer) is the No-I Supreme State.

If Krishnamurti is right, and there is nothing to do, then he should have stayed quiet and never said a word, and people should immediately stop listening to what he has to say ...cause then there is no point. Just Nothing and that's it.

Originally posted by dominicus

Originally posted by Eternium
There is nothing you can do to be enlightened, all our efforts towards enlightenment are phony ~ Krishnamurti

Because there's no one at home to do anything about anything.

I call bullsh**. Krishnamurti was one of the leaders and creators of the whole super negation movement, which says there is no one home, nothing you can do, and leaves it at that. Sailor Bob does it too. Its Neo-Advaita and its a crock.

What Krishnamurti means is that all 'effort' is 'seeking'. 'Seeking' is what causes the individual - it is what divides the whole.
The whole is always whole but it seeks (puts effort in) to find itself. The effort is what is the suffering - the effort is contraction. The contraction of energy seems to separate itself from itself (the one energy) and this is what hurts. The pain of life causes one to seek the end of this pain - so some 'seek' enlightenment because they have heard that it cures the pain of life.
So some 'seek' enlightenment and they suffer in their seeking.
Enlightenment just happens and when it does it can be described but it cannot be prescribed in my opinion.

I wonder which Krishnamurti said the above quote? Was it UG or Jiddu?

reply to post by dominicus


Did you seek enlightenment Dominicus? Had you an idea of what it was prior to the happening?
What is so different about life when enlightenment has been realized?

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Did you seek enlightenment Dominicus?

Yes, it came in handy, bringing to the forefront all the various paths there, blueprints, and trial & error. Had I not read a koan, inquired within, or gotten hit with Mystical grace, I would have remained a hardline super skeptic atheist.

Had you an idea of what it was prior to the happening?

Just descriptions, but not an experience of it. What hit the proverbial nail on the head was Buddha's invitation to see for one's self if what he says is true.

What is so different about life when enlightenment has been realized?

Transcendence, Selflessness, Divine Love, Bliss, Spaciousness, Illusion is gone, there is No more Me anywhere to be found, the whole body changes, the list of what's so different is so long it can be a book in itself.

What Krishnamurti means is that all 'effort' is 'seeking'. 'Seeking' is what causes the individual - it is what divides the whole.

Yes I understand this. But what happens to many people who hear this, is they give up and walk away, while still remaining in the I-Illusion.

The whole is always whole but it seeks (puts effort in) to find itself. The effort is what is the suffering - the effort is contraction. The contraction of energy seems to separate itself from itself (the one energy) and this is what hurts. The pain of life causes one to seek the end of this pain - so some 'seek' enlightenment because they have heard that it cures the pain of life. So some 'seek' enlightenment and they suffer in their seeking. Enlightenment just happens and when it does it can be described but it cannot be prescribed in my opinion.

Yes understood and agreed. We've collided before on various threads and always end up in sync, in agreement for the most part macro-cosmically. Its the minor details that may be at odds.

Like I said before, dropping, letting go of the Seeker in most instances won't produce Enlightenment. Ramana Maharshi discussed 3 categories of people that listen to Nondual direct pointing in the Vein of Krishnamurti and all the others.

1. Ripe. Ready to hear a pointer which will result in direct and permanent Realization.
2. In the Process of ripening. May have glimpses of Realization, dipping in and out of it, all the while taking a few years for stabilization and final realization to happen.
3. Unripened. Will probably spend their whole live at the whims of the world, ego, body, never having any interest in this topic, and never realizing the supreme.

Most be people or Unripened. The rest who do read and study these topics, need a few years and are in the "ripening" category as was the case for myself. Very few, possibly in the hundreds are ripe and will get direct permanent stabilization in the Supreme. Of course this is all from the relative pov.

So my gripe with Krishnamurti is 3 fold:
1. Many/Most won't comprehend that there's "nothing you can do". So it remains a dead end

2. Krishnamurti himself went through various preliminary mystical experiences, reading books, traveling, being in the company of theosophical members, and other factors all contributing to, and crescendo-ing into a final Self Realization. So while saying, "There is Nothing you can do", he certainly did much along the way to realize that there is nothing you can do

3. Instant vs. Progressive Realization. I have found, and can link several sources of other teachers who have also realized this, that those who have an instant realization tend to not comprehend through (logic/reason/intelligence/intuition) exactly the mechanics of how the realization happened.

When it happens in an Instant, it is so fast that the mind fails to recognize the details. For myself, after the initial realization, it took 3 years after that, to slowly break down through self inquiry, meditations, wisdom, and further readings to recreate and fully understand with the mind exactly how realization happens and takes place.

In this case, the resulting conclusion was that Awareness/Observer is prior to ego/mind, and the Source of Awareness/Observer is prior to Awareness/Observer. In the instant realization, one goes directly to Source. In the progressive realization, One stops along the way at each of these "stations" and begins to fully understand them.

Also the center of Awareness is in the middle of the head, while the Source is in the heart, two digits to the right. This is where the Ego emerges from upon waking up in the morning, rising up from this heart location, and taking its place as illusion in the Head and in front of Awareness, projecting all the false like a movie theater.

Ultimately, this thread is a "how to" and invitation for others to see for themselves. The way I got to these realizations, are also espoused by all the various links I've provided.

Originally posted by dominicus
If Krishnamurti is right, and there is nothing to do, then he should have stayed quiet and never said a word, and people should immediately stop listening to what he has to say ...cause then there is no point. Just Nothing and that's it.

edit on 7-4-2013 by dominicus because: (no reason given)

Not doing anything is the same as doing.

People talk for the same reason birds sing, regardless what you can or can't do. The reality is, there is no one observing or anything observed. It happens of itself. The trouble comes from thinking there is any trouble.

Here you go bro's, enlightenment audio guide book:
www.rainymood.com...

reply to post by Eternium

Not doing anything is the same as doing.

Ultimately we're both saying the same thing, its just being said in different ways.

People talk for the same reason birds sing, regardless what you can or can't do.

So why not quote a bird instead of Krishnamurti?

The reality is, there is no one observing or anything observed. It happens of itself.

Does not this "happening of itself" also observe itself? How did you observe all of this for you to know it is this way, and then are able to say "there is no one observing or anything observed. It happens of itself." ?

The trouble comes from thinking there is any trouble.

Agreed

chirp

Epic thread and some great reading, thanks.

OP I have experienced some of what you have posted so understand and appreciate your ability to map it and try to assist others with alternative pathways which ulimately lead to the same place.

Great job.

Originally posted by AussieAmandaC
Epic thread and some great reading, thanks.

OP I have experienced some of what you have posted so understand and appreciate your ability to map it and try to assist others with alternative pathways which ultimately lead to the same place.

Great job.

Hey, thanks for the props. My whole life is basically dedicated to exactly what is on the first page of this thread, to sharing it with others, but ultimately not to debate it, but to ask others to see for themselves if this true. I'm glad you've seen these things for yourself, since then you know these things are true and go really far down the rabbit hole, to the point that you eventually reach the Source/God

Just wanted to add some more evidence to support all of page 1 of this thread. Even though there is more than is necessary at this point in the OP.

First I will show you a picture from Hindu Philosophy from an Individual who himself reach Enlightenment/Union with God and how he maps it out within. Not in the picture that Observer/Awareness in in the Center of the Head, and that Awareness drops down into the heart where the Source/God/Tao/Enlightenment is:


Now note Paintings of Christ that are found all over the worlds in various branches. Look at Jesus pointing at the Heart, and also, just like I wrote on page 1, when you Observe the Observer, or become Aware of Awareness itself (While Ignoring Mind/Ego) Awareness will expand beyond the head and that is what makes up the Halo:


Similarly in Buddhism, the pictures that the Buddhists have that Venerate Buddha also show him with the Halo, which nothing more than Expanded Observer/Awareness/Consciousness:


And yet another painting of Buddha with the expanded Awareness:


And last but not least, I give you, just like in the OP, exactly from what I experienced myself, is a Drawing/Icon of Jesus Found in a various Eastern Orthodox Monasteries, showing the portal coming out of the sides of his head, and the top of his head. These are portals that allow Consciousness/Awareness to exit the body and float around Non-locally outside of it


It's important to note that Eastern Orthodoxy lays claim to the purest most original form of Christianity, and everything I have laid out in this entire thread, is exactly the reason why those monasteries exist, because the Monks are working on Enlightenment and Union W/ God, all of which is laid out in this OP.

More fuel to the fire

Why try to become enlightened? Is it because you're trying to beat the game? Where else but here and now are you supposed to go to? Any effort towards enlightenment is a step away from "enlightenment". Ordinary everyday consciousness is "IT" and there's no need to do anything to change it, because if you do, you are missing the point.