THIS Is The Problem With Our Community!!!

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posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 





While I have absolute disdain for the Patriot Acts I & II, the Military Commission Acts, and the NDAA - it is hyperbole to state that you have lost any rights because of them.


Amazing so the government passing laws that they can arrest and imprison you indefinitely with no due process no counsel no trial etc. and you say I have lost no rights? Secret courts no habeas corpus sneek and peek searches, Secret Fisa courts etc etc etc... Wow you really are in fantasy land what planet have you been living on? I have lost all respect for you I thought you were smarter then that... Sigh! You are part of the problem and in complete denial. I am stunned and speechless... I see no point in continuing speaking to you anyone so far removed from reality cannot have a meaningful conversation... adios..




posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


But how do you really feel?

My point stands - unless you are declared an enemy combatant those things do not apply to you. So, until the day that an American citizen, on American soil, who isn't guilty as sin of colluding with terrorists in a terrorist plot is arbitrarily arrested, detained, or tortured - then discussing it is hyperbolic.

What any of this has to do with conspiracy theorists harassing the victims of mass murders and their families, though, is beyond me. A perceived loss of rights doesn't justify robbing others of theirs.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by hawkiye
 


But how do you really feel?

My point stands - unless you are declared an enemy combatant those things do not apply to you. So, until the day that an American citizen, on American soil, who isn't guilty as sin of colluding with terrorists in a terrorist plot is arbitrarily arrested, detained, or tortured - then discussing it is hyperbolic.

What any of this has to do with conspiracy theorists harassing the victims of mass murders and their families, though, is beyond me. A perceived loss of rights doesn't justify robbing others of theirs.


How can one prove their innocence if they never get a trial or right to confront their accuser and the evidence against them have counsel etc etc etc???... The president can order you killed on a whim how does anyone know that person was guilty? That's what trials are for! Innocent until proven guilty! The fact you believe everyone who is effected is guilty proves you are part of the problem. No one effected by it has been proven to be an enemy combatant that is the point of a fair trial to present evidence. Saying unless it is used on me it does not apply to me is the most ridiculous thing you have ever said. That is like saying that a North Korean has all his rights as long as the police do not decide to arrest him...Sigh! You have really flown the coop here! We have lost nearly everything and people like you sit here and proclaim because it has not knocked on their door yet they have lost nothing.... My god you have a rude awakening coming...



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Hey heff, well since my mind is completely damaged by spending way to much time on conspiracies


I can't believe the twist and turns it takes, maybe,

some supposed CTers are government shills paid to make the rest of us look bad.

No offense guys.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 





What rights exactly have you lost during your lifetime? I am nearly 50 and cannot think of a single one that I have lost.


You must wear a seat belt, no fishing without a license, put on a helmet, you have to pay for health care or you will be fined,no trespassing , keep off the grass, don't spit on the sidewalk, where is your hunting license?

Can't add on to your home without a permit, you could go on forever, no smoking...........................

When I was a young teen me and my boyfriends went down to the river shooting, that wouldn't happen now days.

I think many of us are to young to remember when the field and plains, and streams and land, were free,
then they started putting fences up.

We don't know real freedom.

How much has really changed?

Ya can't raise chickens within the city limits either, but you could when I was a kid.

edit on 102828p://bThursday2013 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)
edit on 102828p://bThursday2013 by Stormdancer777 because: peace love and light eeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Well it only takes one bad apple to ruin the bunch doesn't it?

2nd Line
S&F



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 10:44 PM
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I was pissed when right after the shooting at Sandy Hook one of the first press statements was given by local law enforcement. One thing I kept hearing the throng of press reporters chant over and over was. "What are their names, where do they live?'

Their only seeming concern was to find out where the parents of the kids lived so they could be first to camp out and wait to barrage them with interviews and (hopefully) tears for the cameras. The lowest of low.

Even lower would be to later do more of the same in an ongoing effort to parade emotion in front of the Media. Who better to blame for that sort of personal privacy invasion than one of their stiff competitors, "conspiracy sites"?

I have trouble with that one. Its surely against ATS T&C to even begin to seek out personal information. Majority of members know the result of doing that to each other let alone victims of these tragedies.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


I think I might line up in total opposition to you Heff ! I'm sure you realize you're basing everything on the assumption that the MSM is telling the truth about these alleged harassment's ? And if you think for a moment there isn't going to be some bad apples in a big ass barrel like ATS ? What gives Heff ? Somethings up and you're not at liberty to say huh ?

Your thread seems ominous.
edit on 7-2-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Well Heff you had a great thread the OP is still great but I knew there would be those who would purposely derail it because they didn’t like the tone. You actually had a few that said they don’t believe you and think the Government is the one harassing people. I read a few Troll comments and obvious jabs at you.

I had a thought that maybe the reason some are trying to detract from the OP is that those people may be guilty of doing those things. You know some of them don't seem very stable so I wouldn’t put it past them.


I see how that niche earned the designation of being the trailer park. It takes a real low life to harass victims of such a heinous crime.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide
I was just sitting here, watching the wires for mentions of a story brought up in another thread, one which might be early breaking news, when this popped up. It addresses exactly why so many of us ( I am speaking as a member, not a staffer here ) are literally physically sickened by the lengths that some of our co-members will go to just to have "the scoop" apparently.

From the AP:


COLO. THEATER SHOOTING VICTIMS BEING HARASSED



DENVER (AP) -- Victims and witnesses in the Colorado theater shootings have been pestered by conspiracy theorists, impersonated in court filings and had their addresses and phone numbers posted online, prosecutors said.

In a document made public late Wednesday, District Attorney George Brauchler said some victims are concerned for their safety because of the unwanted attention.

Brauchler asked District Judge William Sylvester to ensure the victims' and witnesses' names are redacted from any documents released in the future, although many were identified in previously released court filings and some have granted media interviews, called news conferences or appeared at public events.

In a court filing dated Tuesday, Brauchler said some victims have been subjected to "relentless contacts by proponents of purported `conspiracies.'"

He also said maps with the addresses and phone numbers of victims have been posted online, and some people allegedly impersonating victims and witnesses have filed court motions in the case.


Full story here.

ETA: Apparently this story is hot enough that the AP pulled it. Alternative links below:

Link one
Link two
Link three
Link four

( There - that should be enough to avoid any whitewashing for now )

In a nutshell this is exactly why the Sandy Hook shooting irks so many of us. We realize that the overzealous have little to no chance of actually uncovering anything at all of note - and only serve to further marginalize and alienate our community. Not just us, but the future bright minds who might one day join us.

My biggest fear, on a personal level, is not ridicule or ostracism in my personal life. It's that this kind of rank and irresponsible behavior on the part of a few might well ruin it for the entire community. How long before the government decides to throw in a rider to some bill that bans sites like ATS? How long before even private blogs include something like "Speculation about current news stories will result in permanent closing of your account"?

When discussing and speculating crosses the line into harassing the victims of a tragedy there is a huge problem. Hell, I've read, more times than I can count just here on ATS, statements saying that people reject the official story about SH. Guess what people. THERE IS NO OFFICIAL STORY YET!

Most of us here are not press. Trying to behave as though we are - with no regard for decorum or professionalism - will be the death knell of what we are all ( or at least most of us ) seeking to accomplish.

~Heff
edit on 2/7/13 by Hefficide because: (no reason given)


And yet, respecting your statements completely, how would one go about questioning a heinous but seemingly questionable, from the information, act? exactly, without offending,, and actually get somewhere. For you see, this is the game, and I do not mean to say this is a game. No one could be more respectful of losing a child than me, and that is a story I will not share here, but however, this is the point here. This is where "they" have us: we cannot object to what we are fed, question it, because the act was so heinous to begin with, we are in qeustion simply by our questioning of it....
You get me?

This is how we are "HAD" by the short hairs...there is no good response.. It is a "have you stopped beating your wife yet, kind of conundrum.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


Nothing like that at all. As far as MSM goes, I have always treated it the same way. They report, and I do what due diligence I can in order to validate or dispute their reporting.

In this case it took about 30 seconds to do so. The concrete proof is here.

~Heff



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by Hefficide
 


Well Heff you had a great thread the OP is still great but I knew there would be those who would purposely derail it because they didn’t like the tone. You actually had a few that said they don’t believe you and think the Government is the one harassing people. I read a few Troll comments and obvious jabs at you.

I had a thought that maybe the reason some are trying to detract from the OP is that those people may be guilty of doing those things. You know some of them don't seem very stable so I wouldn’t put it past them.


I see how that niche earned the designation of being the trailer park. It takes a real low life to harass victims of such a heinous crime.


Funny how those who do not share your views are always trolls and not actual people who have opposing beliefs or opinions eh? Be careful who and what you label as perhaps they will label you back.

Wars of words are not fought with slander of character or name calling, they are won by careful consideration of every word and personal responsibility that what you say carries merit.

Do you feel, that you are growing in your posts and conjecture here on ATS, that you are actively trying to deny ignorance through debate and discussion or are you content on attacking everyone who opposes your viewpoint? If so, will this always be how it is?
edit on 7-2-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by Helious
 


I find it strange that you would say such a thing when in your thread yesterday anyone that questioned your OP was called a troll at least 3 times yet you didn’t have anything to say to them. Let me guess it was because they didn’t disagree with you.

Your standards only seem to apply to people you disagree with. Hypocrite much?

BTW you never did provide the proof you said you had to back up your claims in that thread. Maybe that is why it was trashed.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by Helious
 


I find it strange that you would say such a thing when in your thread yesterday anyone that questioned your OP was called a troll at least 3 times yet you didn’t have anything to say to them. Let me guess it was because they didn’t disagree with you.

Your standards only seem to apply to people you disagree with. Hypocrite much?

BTW you never did provide the proof you said you had to back up your claims in that thread. Maybe that is why it was trashed.


I have never in all of my time here on ATS called anyone a troll. That said my standards apply to myself as well as anyone else. My post was regarding this thread, not any other, about your position in this thread.

The 404 thread you mention has no merit of discussion because it does not exist anymore and is not up for debate. Stay on topic. You play the skeptic card yet you use words like, "shill" "troll" and in doing so become exactly what you claim others to be.

All I ask from you in this discussion is too acknowledge that other people can say what they want, even if it irks you without you calling them or branding them with a certain name and I would bet Heff would say the same.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by Hefficide
 





What rights exactly have you lost during your lifetime? I am nearly 50 and cannot think of a single one that I have lost.


You must wear a seat belt, no fishing without a license, put on a helmet, you have to pay for health care or you will be fined,no trespassing , keep off the grass, don't spit on the sidewalk, where is your hunting license?

Can't add on to your home without a permit, you could go on forever, no smoking...........................

When I was a young teen me and my boyfriends went down to the river shooting, that wouldn't happen now days.

I think many of us are to young to remember when the field and plains, and streams and land, were free,
then they started putting fences up.

We don't know real freedom.

How much has really changed?

Ya can't raise chickens within the city limits either, but you could when I was a kid.

edit on 102828p://bThursday2013 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)
edit on 102828p://bThursday2013 by Stormdancer777 because: peace love and light eeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


okay, I am 50, and I have lost them all. In fact, may I say that I am an example of the loss of rights, the scopes monkey trial, et al....fourth, second amendment, etc....but knowing that, and this is what proves I am not the monkey, and God help the monkey here and now, once Immenent Domain passed you were all screwed.....

Since Scopes, they changed you by what you judged to be a chicken, a monkey, an animal, and forgive me, by what you ate....then there was the attach on the constitution you all swore and lived by and believed in and believed would protect you....and then here we are.

Immenent domain: you worked, paid for your property, and then it could be appropriated for the "common good."
It was over a long time ago.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by Helious
 


The topic is the OP would care to actually discuss it? This is the first time at this moment I have ever typed the word shill so get your facts strait. You are still a hypocrite in my book because of the double standard you have displayed and please reread what I wrote because I didn’t say you said troll.

So do actually have something to discuss regarding the OP or not seeing as how my original post wasn’t addressed to you at all. I just find it strange on how you want to jump on me yet you did nothing in your own thread while people were outright calling those who questioned your OP trolls. That is such a double standard.

It seems Heff has provided the proof some have asked for that backs up his OP do you plan to deny it?



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Okay, I'll give you that one in avoidance of meaningless exchanges, as per our differences on the possibilities of validity concerning the document. And just go with, only a complete fanatic would actually take the time, that they would also first have to have on their hands, to do something like that. Now I feel by that sentence alone, I have weeded out some of those I've labeled fanatics. Now being fanatics ? What can anyone do ? Furthermore if that doesn't weed the numbers down to just a few members at the most being possible, with in the confines of ATS ?

Sounds absurd for even a nut to me and besides that Amigo. You and I know one day the lights are going off anyway. And the way things are going it looks like it might just be sooner rather than later. I know we hope were wrong but, I also know, it doesn't at all look like we are.

I hope that was clear my wife distracted me.

That was horrible revised.
edit on 7-2-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by tetra50
 


To be completely fair. Almost everything in our daily lives is regulated by the government. If your grass is too long you get a ticket. If you try to put a garden box in your front yard and it goes against township rules or the homeowners association you will be forced to remove it.

If you have a vehicle that you own and is in your driveway you want to restore but the tags are expired, they can force you to update the tags in many communities even if you don't drive it. You are forced not only to pay for yearly registration for your vehicle but in many communities and states also for a city sticker that serves absolutely no purpose to you as a citizen and is only pure revenue to the county.

You pay federal income tax, state income tax, medicare, social security, property tax, sales tax, tax on licensing your vehicle yearly, city stickers, fees for any licenses including those to hunt and fish which would be important if you choose to live "off the grid" which is impossible because in order to use any land owned by the government you will need to pay fees to do so and also carry the proper hunting and or fishing license less you are committing a crime.

Somebody buys a car brand new, pays an ungodly amount of tax for it, pays it off then sells it too you, now you have to pay tax on it again. A brewer, brews a keg a beer, he pays tax on the hops and barely and malt to make the beer, once he is done, he pays tax when he puts it in a keg for the stamp. He then transports it to the retailer for sale and the retailer pays tax again on the same barrel. The retailer sells it to a restaurant and restaurant is taxed on the sale of that keg, the keg is tapped and for each beer sold the consumer is taxed for there glass of beer.

Do you see anything wrong with this? Rights? Violated? Taxation without representation?



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 11:39 PM
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Those people are usually right wing looney toons. They aren't a part of anything I belong to. They are a disgrace.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 11:41 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


I apologize if you viewed it as a personal attack, it wasn't meant as such.





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