THIS Is The Problem With Our Community!!!

I was just sitting here, watching the wires for mentions of a story brought up in another thread, one which might be early breaking news, when this popped up. It addresses exactly why so many of us ( I am speaking as a member, not a staffer here ) are literally physically sickened by the lengths that some of our co-members will go to just to have "the scoop" apparently.

From the AP:

COLO. THEATER SHOOTING VICTIMS BEING HARASSED

DENVER (AP) -- Victims and witnesses in the Colorado theater shootings have been pestered by conspiracy theorists, impersonated in court filings and had their addresses and phone numbers posted online, prosecutors said.

In a document made public late Wednesday, District Attorney George Brauchler said some victims are concerned for their safety because of the unwanted attention.

Brauchler asked District Judge William Sylvester to ensure the victims' and witnesses' names are redacted from any documents released in the future, although many were identified in previously released court filings and some have granted media interviews, called news conferences or appeared at public events.

In a court filing dated Tuesday, Brauchler said some victims have been subjected to "relentless contacts by proponents of purported `conspiracies.'"

He also said maps with the addresses and phone numbers of victims have been posted online, and some people allegedly impersonating victims and witnesses have filed court motions in the case.

Full story here.

ETA: Apparently this story is hot enough that the AP pulled it. Alternative links below:

Link one
Link two
Link three
Link four

( There - that should be enough to avoid any whitewashing for now )

In a nutshell this is exactly why the Sandy Hook shooting irks so many of us. We realize that the overzealous have little to no chance of actually uncovering anything at all of note - and only serve to further marginalize and alienate our community. Not just us, but the future bright minds who might one day join us.

My biggest fear, on a personal level, is not ridicule or ostracism in my personal life. It's that this kind of rank and irresponsible behavior on the part of a few might well ruin it for the entire community. How long before the government decides to throw in a rider to some bill that bans sites like ATS? How long before even private blogs include something like "Speculation about current news stories will result in permanent closing of your account"?

When discussing and speculating crosses the line into harassing the victims of a tragedy there is a huge problem. Hell, I've read, more times than I can count just here on ATS, statements saying that people reject the official story about SH. Guess what people. THERE IS NO OFFICIAL STORY YET!

Most of us here are not press. Trying to behave as though we are - with no regard for decorum or professionalism - will be the death knell of what we are all ( or at least most of us ) seeking to accomplish.

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide


I thought the same thing when Alex Jones was on Piers Morgan ranting and raving about Sandy Hook and gun rights. He came across as a babbling fool who wanted nothing more than a platform to spew his words to the nation.

He like many here, did not enhance our community and as a matter of fact, the MSM now speaks of sites like this or conspiracy theorist as "crack pots"

I wonder if any of these people getting harassed were the ones who were on the BBC Three programme about gun control just after the shootings.
If they were did they really think it was a good idea to advertise who they were for 15 minutes of fame?

Originally posted by glen200376
I wonder if any of these people getting harassed were the ones who were on the BBC Three programme about gun control just after the shootings.
If they were did they really think it was a good idea to advertise who they were for 15 minutes of fame?

Even if they were, it is not license for harassment. Its the same with celebrities: "Oh, i have no sympathy for them and the fact that the paparazzi impose themselves in every facet of their private life. They choose to be in the public eye, it's their fault".

At what point, as a society, did we decide that it is acceptable to harass and step all over ones right to privacy because they appeared on a screen somewhere?

reply to post by captaintyinknots


I never said that I agreed with,just questioning their logic.Surely they would know that their are plenty of physcos out there who will worship the shooter,like painting a target on themselves.
Common sense seems to be lacking nowadays.

Originally posted by glen200376
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I never said that I agreed with,just questioning their logic.Surely they would know that their are plenty of physcos out there who will worship the shooter,like painting a target on themselves.
Common sense seems to be lacking nowadays.

By saying that they should expect it, you are, in turn, saying it is ok, or that if they didnt want it, they shouldnt have gone on tv.

So now, if they feel they have a message to share, they shouldnt do it unless they want to be harassed? Is that the new litmus of whether or not someone should go on a public platform?

I'm sorry, but this is an enabling attitude.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


I think that its more of a realistic attitude.Why bury your head in the sand and pretend that everyone is a great nice person?
Incase you havent noticed the world is full of assholes,to realise this doesnt make me an enabler as you call it.

I don't believe that ordinary aware conspiracy intelligent people, harass, so its probably a certain paid off variety imposing as aware, intelligent people.

Originally posted by glen200376
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I think that its more of a realistic attitude.Why bury your head in the sand and pretend that everyone is a great nice person?
Incase you havent noticed the world is full of assholes,to realise this doesnt make me an enabler as you call it.

Acceptance is enabling. To say "they should expect it" is acceptance.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by glen200376
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I never said that I agreed with,just questioning their logic.Surely they would know that their are plenty of physcos out there who will worship the shooter,like painting a target on themselves.
Common sense seems to be lacking nowadays.

By saying that they should expect it, you are, in turn, saying it is ok, or that if they didnt want it, they shouldnt have gone on tv.

So now, if they feel they have a message to share, they shouldnt do it unless they want to be harassed? Is that the new litmus of whether or not someone should go on a public platform?

I'm sorry, but this is an enabling attitude.

This is how the internet helped mold the world. Ginger's do have souls (Everyone has seen that video of a red haired young man who uploaded a video of himself rebutling bullies) Question how long do you think this kid was harrased for? Inside and outside of the internet? Common sense isn't taught, it's learned. And there are to many individuals who do idolize these psycho's. If they didn't they wouldn't make movies about these people, they wouldn't have there own forum cliche's and go to the length's from the original OP. And yes they shouldn't have gone on tv or the internet, some individuals have a hard time differentiating reality and fantasy. Enabler? I found what he stated before far from being that.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Not in any of my comments have i said "they should expect it"

reply to post by sulaw


Im not sure what you were really getting at there, but somewhere in there it seems like you are another who accepts that it is ok to harass someone because they went on tv.

Not much I can say to that, other than I hope you, someday, have an experience that helps you understand the point.

Well said Heff!

It seems as though there are many within the conspiracy realm that take a simple theory regarding a particular topic and it consumes them...so much so that it becomes more of a religious fanaticism.

When belief trumps logic, we hear about people doing what was described in your OP link.

Of course, it goes without saying that some people get too wrapped up in the conspiracy that they forget real people were involved and it's more important to show compassion and understanding than it is to find the hidden conspiracy beneath it all.

Originally posted by glen200376
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Not in any of my comments have i said "they should expect it"

Your entire argument is based on the idea that they should expect it.

too bad. that's how the modern world works. things happen, they are seized upon and reported (and speculated upon), worldwide. instantly. by joe public, by the mainstream media, by the alternative media, and by conspiracy theorists. too late to change any part of that. adapt and survive. seek and find.

if you say nothing, ask nothing, then you learn nothing.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by sulaw

 

Im not sure what you were really getting at there, but somewhere in there it seems like you are another who accepts that it is ok to harass someone because they went on tv.

Not much I can say to that, other than I hope you, someday, have an experience that helps you understand the point.

Well that is belittling grouping me into this category of human.... Deny ignorance with Civility. I feel the same about you now.

reply to post by Hefficide


Is it right these people are being harrassed by arseholes? No it isn't and I don't think anyone in their right mind would think that!

But using the victim card seems to be the new acceptance in todays politically correct realm!!!

Were the people who owned guns and had their addresses published in the local newspaper victims?? Sure they were. But to the anti gun crowd, this kind of behavior was welcome and applauded!

How about the children who are being victimized in our schools for taking a toy gun to school, or making the sign of a gun with their fingers??? Are they victims? Sure they are! But in the sense of our nonsensical political correctness madness that seems to have taken over our country, these kinds of examples are considered for the good of our society!

The "victim card" seems to have become the new "race card"! One persons "victim" is another persons "hero".

The political correctness and the use of victims in general as a political ploy needs to STOP!!!

How many of these insane conspiracy theories about Sandy Hook have been done on purpose to make the rest of the conspiracy theorists look bad? Think about it........

Maybe it is time to change Above Top Secret, to Above Politically Correct!

While I agree with much of what you're saying Heff, especially putting peoples private information online, and pointing the whole damned world to their location, it isn't like free speech wasn't already under heavy attack for quite some time before SH came along.

Nevertheless, that doesn't excuse the actions of the few that make the rest of us come off looking dangerous to the public though, and it really makes me angry to see this kind of thing happen. Those who would like to see our right to free speech perish, don't need any help from us to make it happen.

I really don't care what someone else thinks of my theory on SH, or anything else. But there is such a thing as tact, and common sense. And some of us could stand more of both.

A member has just let me know that the AP has pulled the story and that my OP link is dead. I'll find an alternative source ASAP.

~Heff

ETA - added four additional source links.

reply to post by Hefficide

My biggest fear, on a personal level, is not ridicule or ostracism in my personal life. It's that this kind of rank and irresponsible behavior on the part of a few might well ruin it for the entire community. How long before the government decides to throw in a rider to some bill that bans sites like ATS? How long before even private blogs include something like "Speculation about current news stories will result in permanent closing of your account"?

The real problem is not some over zealous idiots questioning witnesses it's not like the press doesn't do the same thing either camping out in front of peoples houses for days to try and get them to answer questions. How come no one complains about that when CNN ABC CBS Fox etc line the street of someone house for days is that not harassment?

No the real problem is the politicians you fear will use this as an excuse to try and take away more freedoms like freedom of speech. That is the problem we need to be focused on instead of tip toeing around walking on egg shells in fear of these tyrants!

I for one am sick of worrying about what shoe will drop next if we do not compromise some more or be PC enough because of these lying scum who are the enemies of freedom. The whole idea the because some idiot does something stupid everyone needs to lose some rights is just completely asinine and needs to be relegated to the dust bin of history along with the enemies of freedom.

Frankly sometimes I wish they would try and ban the things you fear they might then maybe people will wake the hell up and realize that they are the problem not the next fool who does something stupid!