I'm very scared of going to hell, but I don't believe in hell, page 15

reply to post by wtbengineer

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I just linked here from a search and saw your post and cared enough to join this site so I could respond to you. I am a very devout Christian, but I am also very intelligent. Just to reassure you. :-). I have a Phd and I use to be a scientist.

I see a soul crying out for meaning in an aparently meaningless universe. But there is truth. I am going to respond to you from several angles, but if you are into science I suggest you check out Hugh Ross and Reasons to Believe. He has a Phd in Astro Physics and use to teach at Cal Tech. He uses science to prove the existence of God. Two of his books are "Beyond the Cosmos" and "The Creator and the Cosmos." Astrophysicists have proved for years that there has to be an intelligent Creator of the Universe. The rest of science just hasn't caught up to them yet. And science has become very political.

Also, although I don't know if it will appeal to you, but I died about 20 yrs. ago. I saw many things in the spiritual realm and I know God is real; so are angels, demons and heaven and hell. The Bible states "The fear of God is the beginning of knowledge." I was researching something completely different today. I hit a link and ended up on your post. God uses His servants (me for one) to help others find Him. I think God is reaching out to you. Just ask God to reveal HImself to you. He will if you humbly ask.

Also, we have a body, a soul and a spirit. I think your soul (which includes your mind) and your spirit are battling over the concept of hell. Hell is real and the only reason we need salvation. So, you are on the right track and very honest. I was impressed you were so vulnerable in your post. I will pray for you.
Neviim 77

reply to post by neviim77

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It's funny that one of the most arrogant and self-centered entities in the universe is giving us lessons on humility. I think he could use a few lessons himself.

reply to post by neviim77

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Also, we have a body, a soul and a spirit. I think your soul (which includes your mind) and your spirit are battling over the concept of hell. Hell is real and the only reason we need salvation. So, you are on the right track and very honest. I was impressed you were so vulnerable in your post. I will pray for you. Neviim 77

Hey, got a quick question for you in regards to the statement above.

I'm actually on your side in a sense (Cause I'm a Christian Mystic), however in regards to this I will play the Dev's Advocate.

Personally, it doesn't make sense. Create a bunch of humans, and then only the one's who choose Christ will be saved from eternal damnation in hell. The logic, rational, odds/numbers just don't add up to that. Considering the majority of people in existence that have been, are now, and will be ....won't choose Christ, means hell is one hell of a packed place.

Now hypothetically were I God, and I was considering creating existence, I would see that eventually the majority of souls won't choose Christ, and go to hell for eternity, and therefore it wouldn't be worth creating existence for the sake of even losing 1 soul.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by neviim77

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Also, we have a body, a soul and a spirit. I think your soul (which includes your mind) and your spirit are battling over the concept of hell. Hell is real and the only reason we need salvation. So, you are on the right track and very honest. I was impressed you were so vulnerable in your post. I will pray for you. Neviim 77

Hey, got a quick question for you in regards to the statement above.

I'm actually on your side in a sense (Cause I'm a Christian Mystic), however in regards to this I will play the Dev's Advocate.

Personally, it doesn't make sense. Create a bunch of humans, and then only the one's who choose Christ will be saved from eternal damnation in hell. The logic, rational, odds/numbers just don't add up to that. Considering the majority of people in existence that have been, are now, and will be ....won't choose Christ, means hell is one hell of a packed place.

Now hypothetically were I God, and I was considering creating existence, I would see that eventually the majority of souls won't choose Christ, and go to hell for eternity, and therefore it wouldn't be worth creating existence for the sake of even losing 1 soul.

Therein lies the 'logical' flaw of the argument vis-a-vis omnipotence, omnipotence et al...super intelligence doesn't create idiocies...and all questions that introduce idiocies misunderstand the processes inherent in the 'system'...this is what we see being discussed ad nauseum on these message boards...

A99

reply to post by dominicus

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Now hypothetically were I God, and I was considering creating existence, I would see that eventually the majority of souls won't choose Christ, and go to hell for eternity, and therefore it wouldn't be worth creating existence for the sake of even losing 1 soul.

That's one of the things I've been saying. If "God" really loves us that much, and is really as perfect and omnipotent as everyone claims, then hell would never have been necessary at all.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by dominicus

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Now hypothetically were I God, and I was considering creating existence, I would see that eventually the majority of souls won't choose Christ, and go to hell for eternity, and therefore it wouldn't be worth creating existence for the sake of even losing 1 soul.

That's one of the things I've been saying. If "God" really loves us that much, and is really as perfect and omnipotent as everyone claims, then hell would never have been necessary at all.

God did not create hell...man did!
It is not 'necessary', but forms the result of a process installed by an omnipotent omniscient source...the 'way out' of this conundrum is to utilise this exact same process to 'uninstall' it.
That it can be created, as a thought-form, is testament to the process, which occurs in the material realm as well.

illumination, or the light bulb moment occurs once this process is understood...and the 'blame-game' ends...we become responsible for our own creative abilities...but then, some people are scared of thier own abilities and would rather allay that fear by passing it on to another entity...all the while, abrogating thier responsibility of the results of thier own creations...

A99

reply to post by rickymouse

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There is a little town called hell in the Upper Peninsula. You don't have to be scared of going there. It's not really that far from Christmas, another yooper town. We are not worried of going to Hell up here and we can enjoy Christmas any time of the year.

Don't forget Paradise! That one is up there too!

reply to post by thoiter

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I asked this and apparently the people in heaven forget about anyone in hell, so screw the Christian god who will wipe our minds of the people we love, even If it is all true I will reject him/it /her for being a twat.

reply to post by thoiter

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"God" made us fallible. He presents constant opportunities for such fallibility to manifest itself. And he then punishes us...for doing what he had predetermined us to do. He is not a king. He is not a father. He is the worst of tyrants. He has inflicted the Holocaust four times over in the Bible, not to mention allowing the last Holocaust to happen.

I have no respect for such a being, and nor will I ever worship one.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

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Why is everything our fault? We had nothing to do with our own creation or the creation of this world. We're not omniscient and omnipotent, but "God" is. What's his excuse? Why are we taking the blame for something he did? He knew what would happen. He had every available means to prevent it. He chose not to. That's our fault? Hell no. He's more capable than all of us put together, yet acts more incapable than all of us put together.

*Hands After Infinity a letter*

I work in mysterious ways.
~God of Abraham

*Hands After Infinity another letter*

Stop asking questions. I've killed for less.
~God of Abraham

*Hands After Infinity another letter*

P.S. Luv Yah <3
~God of Abraham

reply to post by AfterInfinity

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They used to have a good bar in paradise Location with excellent food but I think it closed a few years back.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

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very good conclusions, truth be told i have known that and struggled with those exact same ideas even before i became a Christian. what finally made sense of it for me was this; that it made no sense. once again truth be told, we dont understand the whole of God, we are incapable of fully understanding Him, the Bible even says we see dimly, we see only a speck of the universe that is God. that is not to say i agree with everything you said, but only i acknowledge those logical truths, but they are just that, logical in human minds truth. now one might say God is illogical and insane and etc but thats not what im implying. what im saying is God was the only one there at the beginning, and we werent.

your argument is like a 2d object trying to explain a 3d object, in some degree it can understand but not fully, not truly, and where it 'thinks' it understands, its the complete opposite. your argument against God is hate, and my argument for God is love. let go of your pride and 'your' understanding of God, and let Him show you. lastly, id like to say that were never going to fully understand God in our human bodies and that was intentional, so your argument that God is this hateful being that can stop evil but doesnt is false, because your assuming things that are not there. so you might think theres evidence of these acts, but your not seeing that these are coming from us not Him. we brought evil into this world and God gave us the remedy.

after thinking about it some more, i have another response to your "why even create us?" [if God is evil and hateful and knew what would happen in the first place] my response to that is a question as well; why would God even send His Son Jesus to save us, why would He even love us at all and die for us? if He never gave us a chance for redemption, your argument would be valid. but if He gave us redemption then we must assume He is a perfect God as He showed perfect love which wouldnt exist if He wasnt perfect from the start. i think what were finding here is a matter of faith, you either accept God as being hateful and cruel and evil, or you accept Him as being a perfect God of love who wants a relationship with us and has eternal purposes in heaven planned for us. i will choose the latter.

reply to post by 0thetrooth0

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Im guessing you were raised Christian or some other dogma religious garbage. If so, at what age? Blind Faith! Its a dangerous mindwashing technique churches use to ensure future financial support and the fear of hell is their tool. Very powerful stuff, I know first hand. Your in hell now on earth ,this is as bad as it gets.
Dogma is manmade, not by god. You can believe in god(the sun,and elements) without religion.
Hope this helps.

reply to post by honested3

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What I got from your post is something like this:

"Yes, those are very logical conclusions. I came to those conclusions a while ago as well. But you should do what I did: take logic, ball it up in your hand, lob it out the window, and just stop thinking! Everything will so much clearer!"

Thanks, but no thanks. If it's not logical, it's obviously illogical. And I'm not going to ignore that just so I can kiss some lazy psychopath's feet for all of eternity. After all the things I posted on this page, you'd have to be crazy to consider selling your soul to such an entity.

reply to post by honested3

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Refer to the Qu'ran for further revelation about how to deal with unbelievers - leave them to there path, we have our path, you cannot expand or diminish vision or hearing of another, that is the work of Allah, leave them to their devices.

Also you made a small error by referring to human life as ''us,'' since everyone is judged by god equally and singly, one cannot harbor the errors piled up by another, he is responsible for his actions and his actions alone.

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