I'm very scared of going to hell, but I don't believe in hell

reply to post by AfterInfinity


The law given to man was for mankind to operate under, sinners, the lawless. God sent his son to fulfill the law perfectly, and to become a worthy sacrifice, the ultimate sacrificial lamb for all of mankind. In this, the law was full filled, and replaced by grace. Why? Because your good works are even filthy and unworthy.

In order for something to live, something must die, the law of blood. You eat animals and plants. You kill them so you can survive. It was the same thing for Christ, he died so we could live. The last supper.

In my beliefs. If you're wanting to discuss the Bible.

reply to post by milkyway12

The law given to man was for mankind to operate under, sinners, the lawless. God sent his son to fulfill the law perfectly, and to become a worthy sacrifice, the ultimate sacrificial lamb for all of mankind. In this, the law was full filled, and replaced by grace. Why? Because your good works are even filthy and unworthy.

According to the laws we were given, "God" is a monster. According to ANY law, "God" is a monster. So when will he answer for what he's done? When is his judgment day? As the old saying goes:

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

As far as anyone has ever told me, "God" is quite literally a dictator. Which really astonishes me, because as long as earthly affairs go, we hate dictatorship. But once we achieve immortality in heaven, bring it on! We love dictators! Let's spend all of our mortal lives fighting the rule of overbearing authoritarian governments and then die only to embrace the rule of another overbearing authoritarian government that makes all the others look like a boarding school.

Humans are seriously stupid.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


When I want to speak to a psycho, I'll go to my local Mental Hospital ....

By the way, God is a king .......so. If you don't want him, there's a place for that. Good luck.

reply to post by milkyway12


Are you calling me a psycho? How does that address the rest of my questions? Your edited portion doesn't do a very good job of addressing all the points I raised in my previous post. If you are incapable of defending your faith against my cold rational logic, then just say so. I'll continue on to a more worthy opponent in the field of spiritual debate.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Try to speak in a civilized manner, you aren't worth speaking to IMO. Seriously, you don't even remotely attempt not to provoke a fellow ATSer. Best you can do is to stop addressing me please. Thank you.

reply to post by dodol


of course i havent been to hell before (unless your considering this earth hell, as its the closest thing for me) but in regards to Biblical doctrine there does indeed exist both heaven and hell. believe what you want about hell not existing, but the truth is theres a reason God sent His son Jesus to save us, it wasnt just a 'kind gesture' it was to save us from hell. it is a terrible terrible lie to leave hell out of the Bible. Jesus is life, what happens if you dont have life? you die.

but this is where i will leave the thread, i feel ive made my posts clear in regards to the OP and then some, anything else would be arguing, if anybody else has legitimate questions ill be snooping, take care friends

reply to post by milkyway12


I'll take that as a concession of defeat. At least we left a virtual trail detailing just how easily I overwhelmed the wisdom of the "Holy Spirit". It was a good discussion. Short...but good.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Overwhelmed? The Holy Spirit doesn't need to compete with you. You've already lost ... According to the Word of God.

reply to post by milkyway12

Overwhelmed? The Holy Spirit doesn't need to compete with you. You've already lost ... According to the Word of God.

Broken records don't win debates, nor do they settle conflicts. Please address the points I raised previously regarding dictatorship. America doesn't have a king, Italy doesn't have a king, Ireland doesn't have a king, Spain doesn't have a king...and these are all countries with a high population of religious citizens. So why do we need a king in heaven? And again, please address the points I raised in the post aforementioned.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

As far as anyone has ever told me, "God" is quite literally a dictator. Which really astonishes me, because as long as earthly affairs go, we hate dictatorship. But once we achieve immortality in heaven, bring it on! We love dictators! Let's spend all of our mortal lives fighting the rule of overbearing authoritarian governments and then die only to embrace the rule of another overbearing authoritarian government that makes all the others look like a boarding school.

First of all, nothing in heaven would resemble anything on earth. There will be no need for a government. There will be no corruption. There will be no need for an overbearing authoritarian because we'll all be perfect, but that still doesn't make us God.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


The reason they don't have kings is because of public will. However, there is only one King you need to worry about, The Lord Jesus Christ ... I really don't understand your point. A dictator completely righteous, holy, loving, and just? Yeah, I'd bow before him, but none other.he is the only person worthy to be the true king of mankind.

Yes, he rules with an iron fist; a righteous, just, and loving iron fist that is.

reply to post by milkyway12

The reason they don't have kings is because of public will. However, there is only one King you need to worry about, The Lord Jesus Christ ... I really don't understand your point. A dictator completely righteous, holy, loving, and just? Yeah, I'd bow before him, but none other.he is the only person worthy to be the true king of mankind.

Yes, he rules with an iron fist; a righteous, just, and loving iron fist that is.

I'm sorry, what? I'm talking about "God", not Jesus. You know, the guy who murdered over 24 million people in the Bible alone? About 4 times the number of Jews that died in the Holocaust. Is that what you call love?

That's sick, truly sick and disgusting.

thechurchoftruth.wordpress.com...

The above link is the source for an approximation of the heinous acts committed by your god, complete with references for the chapters in which each act was committed. In my mind, your god was worse than Hitler. And I don't see him making up for it.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


in my last post i did say i was going to leave this thread as my points were made in regards to OP, but reading some of your posts i feel i wanted to just say one more thing. your points on a hateful God are within reason and you ask a very common rational question so i appreciate your honesty and boldness in that respect, and i hope to shed some light on it.

in relation to God being judged by His own laws, we can start with the fact that God is God, so whatever He decides to do is and right and perfectly justified. i dont want to just leave it at that though. your making assumptions about God that are taken out of context and not from a standpoint where you truly understand Him. your receiving a skewed "mainstream media" message. yes it is true that God has killed many seemingly innocent people including children, the Bible cleary states that, but you see the people that God allowed to be killed were wicked people, and no it is a level of wicked unlike anything we know of today. it is not like God killed these other nations mentioned in the Bible on the same level that the europeans killed the native americans, thats where most people put it. if you look into the history of these old civilizations, they sacrificed their own children, they sacrificed eachother, they were so horrendous that God knew they were beyond a point of salvation, in fact decimating them was an act of righteousness. if you read into the Bible, you will see God is not about "collateral damage" there has been no case of Him blindly killing innocent people, so if you understand that, then you understand the degree of evil that were the nations God ordered to be destroyed.

in regards to God being hateful and allowing death along the world, thats a valid concern and a valid question. let me answer it for you, God gave men free will, so on that note, if a man decides to go drinking and gets himself drunk, later that night while driving home he runs into another car, the occupants a mom and her little boy, both die. whose fault is this? God or the man who was driving under the influence? Jesus gave two commandments, the first was to love the Lord your God with all your mind body and heart, the second (pay attention to this one) is to 'love your neighbor as you love yourself'. theres a reason that second commandment was there, and it is because we are all given free will both to do good and to do bad, and in most cases, our decisions to do bad impact others, which is why we are to love eachother and think in terms of eachother. now yes hitler was an evil man, but his people allowed him to be put into power, on that same note, while God does allow free will, it doesnt mean He does not intervene from time to time, which is why id argue the americans got involved in the 2nd world war, is because God used us to put an end to hitlers reign. the Bible says it is not Gods will that any should goto hell, but we choose to go there, if He had His will, we would not be free willed and would not be able to say we chose to love God on our own, but only were forced.

i can see your view on God is jaded and it is sad, i dont say this to insult but i say it because you miss the love that He truly is. consider this, for many of the evil things that we allow/contribute to in this world, there are also many good things which God uses to intervene, take for example what i said earlier, where the USA stopped hitler (yes one could argue thats a matter of opinion etc, but you see my point.) lastly most people feel God is this evil hateful entity that just wants to be worshipped, but its false. He wants your heart, He wants a relationship with you, He doesnt want you to blindly worship Him, the questions you ask are valid and legitimate, but i cant answer them all for you. i would suggest what i suggested for the OP, to leave behind any preconceived notions, anything you know about God, forget it and let it start anew, pray to Him for answers and to show you the way, and He will. dont expect a physical answer or a supernatural experience, but show Him your heart truly desires Him and you will know He is real. maybe your not at that point yet, maybe you never will be and thats ok its ultimately your choice. but i hope you understand the lie about God being hateful is just that, a lie, and you can spend your whole life preaching against Him, studying against Him, using all your logic and rationale and might, but in the end He wont go away, He is always knocking on the door of your heart no matter what.

and lastly, you might ask why is there a hell in the first place? were all born into sin and have committed sinful acts, God cannot allow a sinful creature in His presence, but He loves us so much He sent his Son Jesus to die for us to wash away our sins, all we have to do is have faith and believe. so yes there is a reason for hell. thats all.

reply to post by Deetermined

First of all, nothing in heaven would resemble anything on earth. There will be no need for a government. There will be no corruption. There will be no need for an overbearing authoritarian because we'll all be perfect, but that still doesn't make us God.

Please explain that in greater detail. I am having a very difficult time locating the logic in your assessment of the afterlife.

Originally posted by 0thetrooth0
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Ive searched for God he has not responded so right now Im an atheist.

Yeah, I was in the same boat, searched high and low through every book and religion, but I found every since I decided to pooh pooh religion and the bible and all the rest and stop looking around everywhere and listening to ANYONE or ANYTHING, I all of a sudden finally felt love and know we have a creator, and completely remove him/her from all religion and books, and I just think of the creator now as the fun, puppy, kitten, bird, music and humor maker guy, and well it is amazing how much I feel I just "know" now, by removing all of the baloney and not trying anymore...

It sounds crazy but it worked, gave up completely, stopped trying to nag at myself, stopped judging anyone or anything, and all of a sudden "yay!!!!" I am happy and feelin the love.

reply to post by honested3


Every single excuse you just made for your god is pointless. Why? Because he knew those excuse would be necessary. Those acts of evil were planned personally by him. Those people who committed those acts were designed personally by him. Without his consent, those people and those acts never would have happened. You seem to be forgetting your god is omniscient and omnipotent. From where he sits on his glittering throne, THERE ARE NO ACCIDENTS. Every single second of every single space in existence was predetermined by him and him alone.

He is as guilty as every sinner to ever exist because he gave them the capacity to sin, designed them to enjoy it, and he gave them the opportunity. And then he proceeded to punish them all for behaving exactly as he planned. That's not love. That's malice. That's living, breathing, conscious dominoes.

I think we all know what "omniscient" means. I think we all know what "omnipotent" means. I think we all know what "omnipresent" means. It means there are no accidents. There are no mistakes. There is "God" saying yes, and there is "God" saying no. There is "God" watching the entire lifespan of the universe pass in the space of a held breath, and there is "God" not lifting a finger to save his children in all the times they needed it most. The Holocaust, the witch trials, all of it. So many lives lost, and this all-powerful being was okay with it. And if heaven is really so much better than earth, then why make earth at all?

Whatever. I'm obviously not going to win an argument with a brick wall. I just hope I made my point clear to everyone who has two brain cells capable of sparking a flame.

The only thing i can say towards this is that after the life ive had , hell will be a vacation.

Try and see it this way , considering hell is described in ways like "your soul will burn" and "eternal damnation" , just take it that at least you will know whats coming in Hell. Where as here , in real life, everyday you dont know if some you love will die or if your going to get inured yourself.

Look at people going through traumatic times like cancer patients. You think a place like Hell would be any worse for someone going through that kind of torment?

Think about it , Hell aint no thing compared to real life bud.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Try to speak in a civilized manner, you aren't worth speaking to IMO. Seriously, you don't even remotely attempt not to provoke a fellow ATSer. Best you can do is to stop addressing me please. Thank you.

edit on 8-2-2013 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

What did he say that was uncivilized? He brought good points to the table and you are trying to avoid answering his questions, if having a discussion and asking questions is uncivilized then what do you consider slaughtering millions to be?

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Overwhelmed? The Holy Spirit doesn't need to compete with you. You've already lost ... According to the Word of God.

edit on 8-2-2013 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

You seem to feel no need to defend anything you have claimed, now you are hiding behind your "infallible" savior to "win" this discussion? And you're calling him psycho? You know what a hypocrite is?

Very sad to see that, once again the discussion has completely revolved around one religion...myopic in the extreme, and very telling...

Claiming the last word on spiritual matters to the exclusion of any other religion/faith is the hieght of idiocy and reveals volumes about thought processes going on in tiny heads...

A99