Ex-officer suspect in California cop killing

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posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 05:28 AM
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reply to post by TrueBrit
 


Explanation: You are forgetting that he sent his manifesto to the LAPD 1st and they failed to do their jobs after recieving it.

Personal Disclosure: Mind you that ^^^ is only valid if it is indeed his manifesto and that he gave the LAPD ample time to act on it before he started killing anyone.

If it is not his manifesto ... what does that tell us?


If it is his manifesto and he did give ample warning time ... what does that tell us?


If it is his manifesto and he did not give ample warning time ... then I have no issue with him being called a criminal and a murderer ok!




posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 05:41 AM
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reply to post by Mr Tranny
 


I have heard your reasoning, and I have examined your arguments. While understanding the point from which you approach this, I cannot agree with your conclusion about the justification of these acts. Justice cannot be achieved by brutal acts, committed against functionally defenseless people, no matter what reasoning lies behind it, or how difficult it might be to attack the real centre of the problem that one is trying to address with such actions.

The only way to prosecute a campaign of battle justly, is to only destroy legitimate targets, targets who have committed unjust acts, helped create the state of oppression that is deemed to exist, and defend the sickened status quo. There is no, and will never be, a situation prevailing which makes the slaughter of unarmed individuals appropriate, justifiable, or acceptable. You say that such an act was necessary to shake the system out of its rigor, out of its safety zone. You may be right, but if that is the length, to which one must go to cause such an effect, then the effect is not worth the sacrifice. No effect is worth the sacrifice of even a single innocent. Not if one wishes a just result.

The only justifiable action that Mr Dorner could have partaken of, with any legitimacy what so ever, would have been a campaign against the person of those people he deems corrupt, not against thier families, thier friends, thier TV repair man, or postman. In killing an innocent, Mr Dorner makes himself an enemy not just of those who may have wronged him, but of the people as a whole.



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by TrueBrit
 


Explanation: You are forgetting that he sent his manifesto to the LAPD 1st and they failed to do their jobs after recieving it.

I havent forgotten anything OL. If his manifesto contained a threat to the families of those he sees as responsible for corruption, then he intended from the outset to behave in an unjustifiable manner, and kill an unarmed person who had done nothing wrong. That is just cold blooded murder, and will never be legitimised .


Personal Disclosure: Mind you that ^^^ is only valid if it is indeed his manifesto and that he gave the LAPD ample time to act on it before he started killing anyone.

If it is not his manifesto ... what does that tell us?


Then its either a ill intentioned hoax, or a set up, niether of which bodes well for him, or for the people of LA.


If it is his manifesto and he did give ample warning time ... what does that tell us?


Not a bloody thing. If he is anything like the hardcase that he has been made out to be from his record and the reportage on this issue, no amount of warning would have been enough to prevent him from doing whatever the hell he fancies to.


If it is his manifesto and he did not give ample warning time ... then I have no issue with him being called a criminal and a murderer ok!



Even if he gave them a year to bow to his demands, going out and shooting someones daughter cannot be right. Now, if he had blown an entire building full of cops, or started offing dirty cops, thats a whole other bag of kittens, but as for what he has done as of late, I cannot abide by it, or see it as just. He became a thug with a gun the moment he took the life of an innocent.



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 06:06 AM
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reply to post by TrueBrit
 


Explanation: St*rred!

Ok then ... under what circumstances is it ok to go to war and why is any collateral damage even acceptable in times of war?

If you don't accept any war as acceptable then why do you continue to live and pay tax in a country that continues to support the war on terror?

If you accept war as an accepatable path for your own country and yet don't accept any collateral damage as a consequence ... then how do you explain that logically?

If you accept war as an acceptable path for your own country and also accept the collateral damage that comes with that ... then how do you explain the obvious hypocrisy between what you would allow your own country to get away with and what you wouldn't allow Lt. (retired) C. J. Dorner to do?

Personal Disclosure: Thanks for your answers to my previous set of questions! I value them deeply ok!



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 06:10 AM
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I think it was stated earlier that Mr. Dormer feels he has lost everything, including his name, and is suffering for it.
Perhaps he killed Mr. Quan's daughter and her fiance as a first step in taking every thing away from him.
Mr. Quan loses his daughter, the events lead to an independent investigation of the LAPD and He loses every thing.
Could this be part of Mr. Dormer's plan?
Is this part of the reason for the protection of relatives of the other named targets?



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 06:11 AM
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reply to post by nottelling
 


I'd say it is a major powder keg indeed. LAPD has a whole lot of shiny, new toys and they aren't just those guns. They have a very modern collection of "less than lethal" weaponry that could be utilized on any that decide to protest LAPD's recent responses should it sour or grow old. www.lapdonline.org... Doesn't list the vehicle borne LRAD's and I seem to recall something looking like a tank being used in Oakland. If OPD has a tank-like vehicle, then you bet LAPD has one.

With stories like this, they aren't doing themselves any favors. I haven't seen any update on whether or not they are resuming normal responses to 911 calls. In fact, can't find anything about it now but too much of a heavy hand could become highly unwelcome to those uninvolved with the entire thing. Technically, it's the LAPD's own problem and not the majority of the citizens in LA's problem. www.latimes.com...

To the fellow who asked about SCI clearance pages and pages ago:

My info is dated as my grandfather went through this to elevate his TS clearance to SCI (or "above top secret" lol) before becoming a NAF Chief of Staff. He and my family underwent what was called an "extended background investigation". Essentially, every aspect of their lives was put under the microscope in order to assure that there were no security risks whatsoever involved with my grandfather directly or in those closest to my grandfather. Agents are dispatched that talk to you, your wife, your kids, neighbors, and every detail of your activities and whatnot are put through a fine tooth comb. You basically are opening the door to your life wide for examination. That help explain it? Like I said, dated info but I'm sure that it hasn't changed that much though it may take longer now since TS now takes, according to you, 18 months. Back in the 70's, EBI took about 3-6 months. My how times have changed, eh?



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 06:19 AM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 


My personal veiws on war are somewhat aside from the main issue at hand, and to discuss them at any informative length would probably place us outside of what is considered on topic. Suffice to say, that my paying taxes is a matter of law in my country, and I protest with vigour against the collateral damage inflicted by the armed forces of my nation, and against the wars we are fighting now, and the reasons why they were started. My voice has been heard on these subjects.

However, where this specific circumstance is concerned, one cannot justify murder if one is fighting oppression. If Mr Dorner was to be successful in fighting and destroying the corrupt system he sees before him, by just means, by limiting kills to those parties he sees as guilty in that specific regard, then his actions might come to be seen as just, even if they remain illegal acts. However, if he put lead in innocent people who had done nothing to add to that climate of oppression, even if the LAPD were to be investigated and found utterly contemptable, then he himself would still be in the wrong, no matter how one explained his actions at the time.



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 06:59 AM
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Okie news is reporting that Dorner recovered a bag of cash on the streets of Enid while he was training at Vance AFB, he returned the cash to EPD, it was almost 8000 dollars. The photos of Dorner show him in old BDU's from the 80's, with U.S Army, and Capt Bars, Is he Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, or all of the above?



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by SmikeS
Okie news is reporting that Dorner recovered a bag of cash on the streets of Enid while he was training at Vance AFB, he returned the cash to EPD, it was almost 8000 dollars. The photos of Dorner show him in old BDU's from the 80's, with U.S Army, and Capt Bars, Is he Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, or all of the above?


Info from an old acquaintance of Dorner's summarizes his service history thusly:

- He attempted to enlist in the USMC but was rejected due to being unable to meet physical fitness requirements
- Then was successful in joining the US Navy and was commissioned as an officer
- He then decided he wanted to become a pilot (this is the Vance AFB period) and undertook the basic flight course. He washed out due to air sickness and the fact he couldn't handle the academic side of things.
- He then worked in various naval commands before moving sideways into the intelligence/security field as a reservist. He undertook intelligence officer training courses (up to Phase II - as an O-3). Obviously he was required to be cleared for TS SCI which he successfully passed despite an intrusive series of looks into his personal, financial and psychological lives.
- oh, and he was a cop - for a little while.

If you're confused by the camo utilities he's wearing, check the name and branch tapes visible above his breast pockets - one says "Dorner" and the other one says "U.S. Navy". Back in the olden days, before a different ridiculous camouflage uniform for each branch of the US military, they had where they were from embroidered onto a strip of cotton or nylon sewed above a pocket. Ingenious really .



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 07:32 AM
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Just spent the last few hours catching up on the 20 odd pages added overnight.

Living in the UK and having visited LA only once, during last summer. Could someone explain the juristriction area of the LAPD. I seem to recall reading some way back in this thread that Dorner was shooting at cops in another non LAPD area, also Bear Mountain seems to be some way away from Central LA is this within LAPD's area. Also where do the sherrif departments fit in. Sorry for being thick, but just trying to understand more about what is going on.



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 09:02 AM
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reply to post by Reddeltic
 


The LAPD's jurisdiction is the city of Los angeles... They're just assisting in San Bernadino County.... Sheriff's jurisdiction is within their counties...
edit on 9-2-2013 by wearewatchingyouman because: add



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by canucks555
Keep your balance, don't exonerate this fellow, he's a murderer.
I think he speaks the truth, but in the end he's a murderer..
Think about that and don't get too excited..
Just sayin..


What kind of a statement is that? You say keep your balance, and then turn around and call the guy a murderer...

Glad to see that innocent until proven guilty goes out the window when so little evidence is present. Hope that I don't get a jury of peers like you if I ever have a day in court.



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by Mr Tranny
 


I have heard your reasoning, and I have examined your arguments. While understanding the point from which you approach this, I cannot agree with your conclusion about the justification of these acts. Justice cannot be achieved by brutal acts, committed against functionally defenseless people, no matter what reasoning lies behind it, or how difficult it might be to attack the real centre of the problem that one is trying to address with such actions.

The only way to prosecute a campaign of battle justly, is to only destroy legitimate targets, targets who have committed unjust acts, helped create the state of oppression that is deemed to exist, and defend the sickened status quo. There is no, and will never be, a situation prevailing which makes the slaughter of unarmed individuals appropriate, justifiable, or acceptable. You say that such an act was necessary to shake the system out of its rigor, out of its safety zone. You may be right, but if that is the length, to which one must go to cause such an effect, then the effect is not worth the sacrifice. No effect is worth the sacrifice of even a single innocent. Not if one wishes a just result.

The only justifiable action that Mr Dorner could have partaken of, with any legitimacy what so ever, would have been a campaign against the person of those people he deems corrupt, not against thier families, thier friends, thier TV repair man, or postman. In killing an innocent, Mr Dorner makes himself an enemy not just of those who may have wronged him, but of the people as a whole.


Congratulations. You have just indicted the moral standing of every imperialist
action of a government with collateral damage being deemed acceptable by it--
while villifying that behavior on an individual level. We can't have it both ways,
and I also personally decry both. Moral safety in numbers doesn't get it, because
it doesn't exist even if a whole country subscribes to it-- when it's evil.
Did anybody notice yet how devisive the subject matter is that's reported here
(AGAIN); and seemingly before any solid evidence surfaces? Broken record,
same studio, different players, SAME results. It reinvents the word to ospinion.
This thread is getting long and fat with rationalizations for inhuman behavior
after inhuman treatment. I'm backing out of the good v. evil frame of reference
because individual values are coming into view as rhetoric. We're all entitled
to look, but when something perceived as evil becomes policy where does it end?
And who's authorized to end it? Finally is ANY battle plan morally sound?
Big Bob was so perversely right..."Be careful when you fight the monsters,"



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by nottelling
Info from an old acquaintance of Dorner's summarizes his service history thusly:

link?



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by ANNED
LAPD (and many calif cops) have a blue wall of silence.
You NEVER rat out a fellow officer for misconduct.

That's the puzzling thing. He ratted out his training officer while he was still on a probationary status, and didn't seem to suffer for it from his fellow cops.

relieved of duty by the LAPD June 25, 2008
(manifesto)

worked at LAPD's Southwest division 11/07 until 6/25/08
(manifesto)

(Reported misconduct by training officer Aug '07)

LAPD’s Harbor division 7/07 until 11/07
(manifesto)

returned to the LAPD July 2007


Nowhere in his manifesto does he complain about being cold-shouldered by fellow cops after his complaint against his training officer. He continues to work on patrol in the Harbor, and then the Southwest, Division until he was fired.


/



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 09:53 AM
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Just judging from what I see on twitter feeds, it looks as though the altered manifestos are having the desired effects already. Many non liberals changing their support stance to an opposition of Chris Dorner based on his support of Obama, and many other liberal stances in the altered manifesto.

Anonymous seems to be attempting to keep the original manifesto in circulation for people who are interested in the unedited original. Also people are saying his facebook has been removed, don't have facebook so I cannot verify this.

Overwhelmingly however the lack of support for LAPD is just astounding. Looks as though a large portion of people from the area and around the country know how corrupt they are, and is voicing it regularly in tweets.



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by SpaDe_
 


What do you consider the original Manifesto? The one Anonymous is publishing has all the stuff about Obama, Gun Control etc... youranonnews.tumblr.com...

Why do you all think this one has been altered? It's been around before the condensed one... the first time I saw the condensed one was the seventh on the KTLA site... I personally saw the same one Anon is postinghere on the sixth before this story even hit the mainstream news...
edit on 9-2-2013 by wearewatchingyouman because: clarity add link



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by sonnny1

Where is the honor in stooping to the level of those he hates and despises, to the point of physically threatening them? He even took the time to write a manifesto, outlining it. He did threaten them with death, but I see you have no problem with hat.



Why is he running ? He can turn himself in to federal authorities. He chose not to. It says a lot.


are you thick?

threats are a powerful tool...in unstable, or already paranoid people, they can cause the target of the threat, to act irrationally, and sometimes dangerously....who's to say he's not playing with their heads, so that they do EXACTLY what they're doing right now...overreacting, shooting citizens, calling in a stupid amount of reinforcements....they're showing their true colors, and i believe that was the point of his whole operation, wasn't it?

there is no stooping...i only see words at this point...

assuming he's not guilty of everything for which he is accused (there is no evidence of guilt), once you have THAT kind of accusation leveled against you, you can't simply say "i surrender, take me to your leader"...no...he will be executed when they find him..and that will also speak VOLUMES to the integrity, and ultimately, the credibility of the LAPD....no matter what happens, the LAPD does not get to come out of this looking like heros, and that was the point....live or die, at this point, he still wins...



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by FyreByrd
 





As for not being caught on CCTV (close circuit TV) - there are many back roads in the mountains and in the city and a former cop would know how to stay off the grid, so to speak. It's clear he has been planning and his planning certainly took street cameras into accou


I'll make this clear for you then. It's impossible and you're naive to believe this guy could get away. Naive.I'm sticking to my guns cause I know better sorry you're all wrong.And I'll bask in the sunshine of my righteousness on my own.

How about that? The story is bogus.
edit on 9-2-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by sonnny1
It would be like justifying every A hole who decides to kill innocent people, based on "their" reasoning of why they need to do it. Imagine if EVERYONE decided that today, they are going to take revenge, any revenge against someone they feel has wronged them. The guy who raised your rent, or the gal who gives you a hard time at the DMV. I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it one bit. Two wrongs, don't make a right.


what is wrong with you?

The guy who raised your rent?

The gal that gives you a hard time at the DMV?

Are you f**king serious?!

They ruined the man....destroyed his police career, f**ked up his personal life, left a black mark on his record that he can never erase, that would ruin his chances of getting hired as a cop pretty much anywhere, going back to the navy isn't an option...PMC might be an option, but i doubt he would be able to tolerate them....so what could he do?

Mall security guard?

McDonalds?

Overnight stock clerk at a grocery?

yeah...sure...that'll work


i'm not gonna sit here and make assumptions about you, so i gotta ask, have you ever lost EVERYTHING?...and i mean EVERYTHING...as in everything that ever mattered to you, and i'm not talking about material possessions, i'm talking about the more important stuff....have you?





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