Ex-officer suspect in California cop killing

Read the manifesto and all. It truly is a "Falling Down" type story. I find it so strange that so many seem to miss the "allegedly" part of Dorners murder accusations. Just from a critical eye and ear. I would grant that he would (and probably did) fire, and return fire on officers Thursday, killing one.

The newlyweds story doesn't sit right with me. Here's why. It seems there were no witnesses to the murder and the they were found dead. The Police linked Dorner via nearby evidence. Why would a man bragging about his evasion tactics leave identifying evidence (I think it was in a trash can) nearby? Does that scream "Military Trained Rambo!" or "Typical LAPD Plant"? You tell me. My brain is going the obvious direction.

Example: OJ's glove. Planted. Case acquitted. Sad LAPD ;(

reply to post by nottelling


Thank you, very much.

Originally posted by Illuminaughty8


I am not, however, saying I condone hits actions or that I am rooting for him. I hope the LAPD stops shooting innocent people and acknowledges the corruption, and he stops killing people as he said he would

Lets just make it clear, that this is what its all about, in the end.

re·venge (r-vnj)

1. To inflict punishment in return for (injury or insult).
2. To seek or take vengeance for (oneself or another person); avenge.
n.
1. The act of taking vengeance for injuries or wrongs; retaliation.
2. Something done in vengeance; a retaliatory measure.
3. A desire for revenge; spite or vindictiveness.

And Yes. All those who I put out there, have played this word to their own devices.

Just pick the definition.


For your above response?

I agree 100%

Thats all I hope people will get out of this. EVERYONE knows the LAPD is corrupt, and shall I say probobly one of the biggest corrupt Police forces out there. I hope the citizens who pay these officers, do something about it. They have had years to clean up the LAPD.

I also believe this guy had the right to gripe about the wrongs that befell him. What he doesn't have the right to do is kill innocent people.

I'm just in awe at how many people have justified his actions, in one way or another, and haven't really sat down to think of the consequences.

If he killed the guy’s kid and her boyfriend then I have zero sympathy for him and he is nothing more than a rabid dog that should be put down. I draw the line at that point. I can understand his anger and even sympathize to a point with him going after those who wronged him but killing indiscriminately without motive is the trademark of a serial killer.

The other side of this would be the officers who opened fire on the mother and daughter who were only delivering newspapers those cops should be brought up on charges and I hope the victims sue for millions to where they can forever ride in bulletproof limos.

reply to post by Guyfriday


Explanation: St*rred!

I have also just begun to look into the possible false flag side of this issue and I think this ...

Special Activities Division [wiki]

.. may be a good place to start looking ok!

Personal Disclosure: @Randy ... your premise for the false flag may have been misconstrued but I do thank you for strongly raising the false flag issue as for me it is not out of the ballpark just yet and the issue with the young couples deaths and the as yet unavailable tape has seriously muddied the waters IMO!

However the situation remains where the ball is still in the LAPD's court and we have yet to even see the dvd vid that was claimed to have been sent to Anderson Cooper along with the shot through marksmanship coin award.

We all need to see both those vids to be able to assess the false flag issue side of the debate.

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by OmegaLogos


Explanation: Any LAPD police officer is free to immediately retire and or quit the force!

Personal Disclosure: If it is too hot ... then get the HELL OUT OF THE KITCHEN OK!

Look, Im for the LAPD to be held accountable. Ive said it before, and I will say it again. But I hope you are not another one that thinks people need a wake up call, at the expense of good people getting hurt. WHY aren't the citizens demanding explanations? If you hate the police that's fine. That's your prerogative. This man though lumped every officer into his personal war.You know damn well not every LAPD officer is bad or crooked, or is turning a blind eye. But guess what? All of them are a target in his eyes.

And anyone driving a pickup is a target in LAPD's eyes. By my count they've both shot the same number of innocent people.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Daedalus

 

No what's unbelievable is your rejection of common sense as if you have some stake in the issue ! Like a pay check ? They way you set yourself up against the truth from the get go with no consideration what so ever. You are unbelievable to the core of it's definition.

edit on 8-2-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

This whole paragraph is nonsensical (has no meaning).

As for not being caught on CCTV (close circuit TV) - there are many back roads in the mountains and in the city and a former cop would know how to stay off the grid, so to speak. It's clear he has been planning and his planning certainly took street cameras into account.

Originally posted by OmegaLogos


Explanation: Uhmmm?

Got a Source link for that quote please?

Sorry about that OL

Unabomber's Manifesto

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
Personal Disclosure: He wasn't crazy but he was wrong! It has never been against the law to hate ... only to act upon that feeling in an illegal manner!

So far nobody has shown me that this is not a valid WAR and that Lt. (retired) C. J. Dorner has operated outside the rules of engagement that he set for himself in his [claimed] unaltered manifesto!

Care to give that a go for me?

I thought "Collective Punishment" is illegal in War, under the Geneva Convention, such as Revenge tactics against citizens......

You are saying his "personal" war, is in fact legal. I would think that being an ex soldier, he would live by the rules. Terrorists use these tactics.

He did say families of the officers are targets, right?

reply to post by sonnny1


Explanation: BLINDEYE! Pffft!

You obviously haven't read the manifesto at all! :shk:

Becuase if you had you would immediately notice that he was fired for not turning a blindeye to such actions!

In 8/07 I reported an officer (Ofcr. Teresa Evans/now a Sergeant), for kicking a suspect (excessive force) during a Use of Force while I was assigned as a patrol officer at LAPD’s Harbor Division. While cuffing the suspect, (Christopher Gettler), Evans kicked the suspect twice in the chest and once in the face. The kick to the face left a visible injury on the left cheek below the eye. Unfortunately after reporting it to supervisors and investigated by PSB (internal affairs investigator Det. Villanueva/Gallegos), nothing was done. I had broken their supposed “Blue Line”. Unfortunately, It’s not JUST US, it’s JUSTICE!!! In fact, 10 months later on 6/25/08, after already successfully completing probation, acquiring a basic Post Certificate, and Intermediate Post Certificate, I was relieved of duty by the LAPD while assigned to patrol at Southwest division. It is clear as day that the department retaliated toward me for reporting Evans for kicking Mr. Christopher Gettler. The department stated that I had lied and made up the report that Evans had kicked the suspect. I later went to a Board of Rights (department hearing for decision of continued employment) from 10/08 to 1/09. During this BOR hearing a video was played for the BOR panel where Christopher Gettler stated that he was indeed kicked by Officer Evans (video sent to multiple news agencies). In addition to Christopher Gettler stating he was kicked, his father Richard Gettler, also stated that his son had stated he was kicked by an officer when he was arrested after being released from custody. This was all presented for the department at the BOR hearing. They still found me guilty and terminated me. What they didn’t mention was that the BOR panel made up of Capt. Phil Tingirides, Capt. Justin Eisenberg, and City Attorney Martella had a signigicant problem from the time the board was assembled. Capt. Phil Tingirides was a personal friend of Teresa Evans from when he was her supervisor at Harbor station. That is a clear conflict of interest and I made my argument for his removal early and was denied. The advocate for the LAPD BOR was Sgt. Anderson. Anderson also had a conflict of interest as she was Evans friend and former partner from Harbor division where they both worked patrol together. I made my argument for her removal when I discovered her relation to Evans and it was denied.

And that is the opening paragraph!

Personal Disclosure: Who is turning a blindeye and hwo is being a hypocrit?

Methinks it is you ok!

Originally posted by Illuminaughty8

And anyone driving a pickup is a target in LAPD's eyes. By my count they've both shot the same number of innocent people.

I suppose those who were wrongfully shot, should seek vigilante style justice, to even the score, hey?

Originally posted by sonnny1
Does he sound "crazy" ?

I would bet my life that the survivors who lost family members due to "misguided" bombs in the Middle East believe in the cause of their kin who choose to seek revenge through suicide bombings. I would bet my life they see them as justified Martyrs dying for what they believe in.

Taking away this side and that side and just look at the motivation and the emotions and its the same thing. The man believes in something (Integrity and Morality) so strongly he is willing to die for it. I respect that more than any other human action in this world. It's pure and honest.

Many of the greatest moments in man's history began with the death of innocent people. Were the Nazi Soldiers innocent victims of circumstance because they were just following orders? Or were they willing accomplices? I'm sure there we're some guys on the Blitzkrieg that were probably pretty stand up guys caught in a bad situation.

Too bad more of them, didn't stand up and lash out against the rank and files. I bet you feel like the ones that stepped the company line and "kept their mouths shut" deserved to die just as much as the Nazi soldiers who enjoyed their assignments.

It might be a fairly big leap to go from LAPD to Nazi Soldiers, but not as far as you think. This from a person with multiple LAPD incidents (including one where I was physically handled and verbally berated, insulted, threatened and intimidated for being "too angry to be telling the truth".)

What per say was I "too angry over"?

For calling the cops when I went with my girlfriend to pick up her final paycheck from a shady dispensary that threatened to "shove a pistol" down my throat after I told them not paying her was an unacceptable solution.

What Non Coward paying the rent check to check wouldn't be "too angry?"

The officer called me a "LIAR" to my FACE three seconds after getting out of the "Shop" (Cruiser) before he even talked to the "Perp". Even when an employee on the scene verified that the threat was made he still couldn't swallow his pride and acknowledge he was wrong and continued to attack my integrity and dared me to dispute his insinuations. The other cops (one was actually a decent guy) of course backed his alpha BS the whole way even though I could see the empathy in the eyes of one of them, basically BEGGING me not to escalate the situation.

Gotta love that "Blue Line"

You know who I walked away more pissed at that day? The scumbag LAPD officers more than the wannabe drug dealing gangster. What do you think I'm going to do if I find myself in a similar position? Here a hint: I support the 2nd amendment.

It's always easy to condemn and lash out against the "reaction" to a problem and say the victim should "rise above it" or whatever cliche you want to make.

The bottomline is if enough bad # happens sooner or later something is going to come along and calibrate the problem.

Every man, woman and animal has a breaking point.

We can sit here all day and play the Batman and (REAL) Joker game wondering who created who first, but the bottomline is the criminal and oppressive practices of the LAPD and the Government in general have become SOP. Standard Operating Procedure.

You push people to the brink they push back. First it's one guy that "goes too far", then its a group of "extremists" who commit acts of domestic terrorism, then the next day its an "uprising", the day after that its a revolution, the day after that a civil war, then the day after that?

The day after that the victor writes the history books. The uprising wins, and those early days become known as acts of Patriotism and Heroism. The powers that be win, and it's "crazies" and "radicals" and "cults" that were brought to justice and subdued.

Read your history my friend. You cannot judge the true "good" or "evil" in these actions today or tomorrow.

The only thing that is certain, is more and more people are being pushed to the brink and an "event" seems inevitable

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by Illuminaughty8


I am not, however, saying I condone hits actions or that I am rooting for him. I hope the LAPD stops shooting innocent people and acknowledges the corruption, and he stops killing people as he said he would

Lets just make it clear, that this is what its all about, in the end.

re·venge (r-vnj)

1. To inflict punishment in return for (injury or insult).
2. To seek or take vengeance for (oneself or another person); avenge.
n.
1. The act of taking vengeance for injuries or wrongs; retaliation.
2. Something done in vengeance; a retaliatory measure.
3. A desire for revenge; spite or vindictiveness.

And Yes. All those who I put out there, have played this word to their own devices.

Just pick the definition.


For your above response?

I agree 100%

Thats all I hope people will get out of this. EVERYONE knows the LAPD is corrupt, and shall I say probobly one of the biggest corrupt Police forces out there. I hope the citizens who pay these officers, do something about it. They have had years to clean up the LAPD.

I also believe this guy had the right to gripe about the wrongs that befell him. What he doesn't have the right to do is kill innocent people.

I'm just in awe at how many people have justified his actions, in one way or another, and haven't really sat down to think of the consequences.

edit on 9-2-2013 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

Yet the "Avengers" are "Heroes" and one of the biggest blockbusters of all time...

If you got it all figured out Sonny1 why don't you tell US (I am one of the "citizens" of LA you speak of that has had "years" to handle this) how we should "clean this up"? How does a fractured and disorganized community "clean up" a militarized and highly organized and deeply corrupted police force through peaceful effective means??

TELL US HOW TO DO THAT WITHOUT BLOOD SHED?

Originally posted by OmegaLogos


Personal Disclosure: Who is turning a blindeye and hwo is being a hypocrit?

Methinks it is you ok!

Wow OL. I didn't think you would get all personal, with me.



I read the Manifesto.

Like I asked, DID he go to the MEDIA with all the OTHER injustices he saw, and described in his manifesto prior to him getting fired? NOPE! He saw a lot, apparently. He has plenty to say, but is only ANGRY apparently at getting fired, and has taken to revenge, as his only way of coping with it. Sad, actually.

He a Hypocrite. He saw these things while he WAS an officer, and is only NOW telling the world of what he saw, AFTER getting fired.

Originally posted by Buffalo2LA


TELL US HOW TO DO THAT WITHOUT BLOOD SHED?

You forgot?

reply to post by sonnny1


Explanation: St*rred!

Thanks for that!

And yes he did ... and since the deceased couple were both adults and directly associating with one of his main targets ... who should of been aware of the manifesto in the LAPD's possession and who should have warned them ... they could of easily and publicly distanced themselves form that target and hence protected themselves from injury!

Since that did not happen, then YES they are also viable targets as per the manifesto's Rules Of Engagement [aka ROE] and I can easily consider them valid collateral damage under the rules of military nessesity.

Personal Disclosure: It IS a WAR remember ok!

He has acted justly IMO!

Do you concur?

Originally posted by Grimpachi
If he killed the guy’s kid and her boyfriend then I have zero sympathy for him and he is nothing more than a rabid dog that should be put down. I draw the line at that point. I can understand his anger and even sympathize to a point with him going after those who wronged him but killing indiscriminately without motive is the trademark of a serial killer.

And if you really needed to destroy someone who had a ton of vile dirt on you and was about to go public, it'd be handy if they thought the above about you, wouldn't it?

There is no evidence linking him to the first two killings. Vaguely threatening every family member does not automatically make him responsible for those shootings. For another theory aside from blackmail, someone who wanted to kill Quan's daughter and husband could have known about the manifesto and taken advantage of the opportunity to commit a crime someone else would surely take the rap for.

Unless, of course, there was something like, you know, security video cameras inside the keylocked garage. But if that were the case, the LAPD -- the department which is not even bothering to pretend they care about the judicial process, and which has flat-out declared him guilty to the press -- would be ALL OVER telling the public they caught the suspect on video, even if they didn't show it. They'd love that! Oh wait...

Engen said the couple recently moved into the condominium complex. The parking structure requires a key-code for entry and there are security cameras throughout the complex, a resident told the Los Angeles Times.

Source: CBS article on Quan/Lawrence killing from before Dorner was suspected

reply to post by OmegaLogos
Here is a photo of the coin, no dvd vids though.
accused-cop-killer-sends-package-to-anderson-cooper

Oh, the video clip on here mentions that the media is cooperating and sent the contents back to LAPD. Why couldn't they give it to the FBI or something first.....

reply to post by sepermeru


I too, have been pondering this huge piece of the puzzle. If in fact he did commit that murder, at this point you would at least hear "suspect was seen on video footage etc etc. with the collateral damage, the usurping of rights in searches, shootings, one would think that the LAPD would in fact release, any info they could to justify measures being taken. The media historically, reports facts, all sides of a story- so that one may form their own theory,opinion.What we have here is a reporting of sides, we receive many versions of a manifesto, reports from a psychologist, reasons why the LAPD would have reason to be on edge and shooting up vehicles*, The weapons and training he possesses, the ways he may be pursued. However, the elephant in the room, the smoking guns in all crimes, the motive. Which seemingly we have been given. Why are they not discussing the motive? The big motive, a motive the USA has used as cause of wars, civil liberties, human rights. That which we stand for, that which our founding fathers sought to protect. The actions of Dormer, be they that, have brought to the media of the world, yet no one is capitalizing on this. Look he was right look at the asian ladies, Thank you LAPD for proving this mans point. What happened to due process? Innocent until proven guilty? Hmmm? Doe this not enrage you? It does me? check you tube for police brutality... enraged now?

The innocents, the couple if he did do that, How many innocents have been murdered by our government, police on our own soil, bombs, drones, shock and awe. We did this, every one of us, by not being enraged by blatant disregard for the constitution, human rights, police brutality, the blue freaking wall, politicians, lobbyist all of it. We the people have sat idle and allowed push by push until all that was left was the tiniest thread and it snapped. The Government is no longer by the people for the people, the boundaries long ignored are now but a memory this could be any of us. *end rant*

Btw this is now one of the largest threads on ATS.

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by Buffalo2LA


TELL US HOW TO DO THAT WITHOUT BLOOD SHED?

You forgot?

Excellent humor break, but even better deflection.

reply to post by Buffalo2LA


Whats the deflection? They citizens burned a city up, and had the LAPD on the ropes! Then what happened? They allowed the LAPD to continue the corruption. Have I missed something?