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Ex-officer suspect in California cop killing

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posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
reply to post by MystikMushroom
 


I have lost jobs. I have been divorced. I did not go on killing sprees. People are forced to change careers all the time and in this economy many people have lost their jobs and their livelihoods. If everybody that was unhappy went on a killing spree, there would be all out chaos.

I am not in law enforcement, but I am a lawyer. I know all to well that our justice system is flawed. I often lose sleep at night worrying about whether some dimwit judge who got on the bench only because he cut checks to the right politicians is going to throw away my case because he is too dumb to grasp a complex point of law or because he plays golf with the other side's lawyer.

I don't go around killing judges or killing other lawyers. I just have to assume that I will win some and lose some. Unfair things have happened to me and will continue to happen to me. I have also benefited from and will continue to benefit from other's misfortunes. This is life and this is true of all of us.

The fact of the matter all of our institutions, whether they be courts, police departments, corporations, or schools are flawed and always will be flawed. They are run by people who do not magically stop having the weaknesses and vices all people have just because they put on a badge, wear a black robe, or have some fancy title. All systems are broken, but just because the system is broken it does not mean we have to make things worse by going out and killing people.


edit on 8-2-2013 by hotpinkurinalmint because: To complete response to initial post.


I applaud you for your honesty!

I completely agree with your moral standpoint. I do not condone killing. As I have said multiple times -- there is always another option.

This man was at the end of "his" rope. It's unfortunate that he didn't pursue other options. He could have gone to the ACLU. He could have gone to the DOJ (Department of Justice) he could have gone to the FBI. He could have filed civil claims.

At this point we really don't know what he didn't try. All we have is a "manifesto" that may or may not have even been actually written by him. For all we know, he might have pursued the aforementioned options and is being framed. I don't know.

What I do know is that two wrongs don't make a right. Batman is considered by many comic fans to be a "vigilante of justice". However, even Batman had a code of ethics that prevented him from killing.

I can't excuse the allegations against this man -- but I can understand, and empathize with him. Sometimes people snap when they feel that all options have been exhausted.

And you're right -- we all sometimes face entire life/career changes. I still don't understand why this man couldn't have just procured for himself a PMC job. I guess getting fired from the LAPD prevents that? I was under the impression he was still in the Navy reserves as of a couple of weeks ago?


Thank you for your honest response!




posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by SpaDe_

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Reply to post by SpaDe_
 


Demonize?! Destroy his credibility?! This man murdered two innocent people. Any credibility he had flew out the window when he decided to take someone else's life. He demonized himself. He IS crazy. Stable people don't go on murderous rampages.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



Allegedly killed two innocent people. His credibility might have gone out the window with you, but I think there are many more people out there that want to hear this mans story, and the LAPD is hell bent on silencing him before that story can be told.


Lol allegedly, so let me guess....somebody else committed these crimes and he just happened to have the manifesto laying around and just happened to be where the crime happened. He also conveniently disappeared. This is just some big conspiracy to set him up? What planet are you living on? He did this, hes a horrible person, stop defending him. You may want to hear his story and thats fine. He can write it while hes serving life in prison but he will get no sympathy from me and hopefully none from anyone else, he doesn't deserve it. Hes not only a murderer but a coward. Hes on the run and I feel bad for him when hes found.



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 11:43 PM
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Originally posted by nottelling

Originally posted by bigchieftimberlog

Originally posted by nottelling

Originally posted by bigchieftimberlog
-"I will utilize OSINT to discover your residences, spouses workplaces, and children’s schools. IMINT to coordinate and plan attacks on your fixed locations. Its amazing whats on NIPR. HUMINT will be utilized to collect personal schedules of targets."


LOL He's using Facebook, Google Earth and a bit of social engineering on the phone to plan his "operations". Hahaha Why not? They are viable tools I guess.

It's interesting what he implies about NIPR. As a retired Navy officer, he's probably still got access. Note that cleared ex-DoD personnel retain access privileges to a lot of protected or semi-restricted systems such as AKO.

I have read the Manifesto - both the original and the doctored copies. I am starting to think that this guy is less and less of a threat as time goes on. If he killed those two relatives of the dude who wronged him as has been alleged, then he's little more than a common murderer on the run from the law. I don't think he's in any position to start takin' out bad guys - he's too busy preserving his own behind.


I wouldn't doubt him if it was me, although I do understand what you are saying in regards to him being on the run. Are you suggesting he's using all these fancy abbreviations to scare people into doing what he wants?

He seems to be pretty capable to do what he says he plans on doing.

"You are aware that I have always been the top shot, highest score, an expert in rifle qualifications in every unit I’ve been in. I will utilize every bit of small arms training, demolition, ordnance, and survival training I’ve been given."

No offense but do you know anything about clearances or the INT stuff he's talking about? I am just asking because you said the bit about facebook and google earth.

I don't think he's trying to leak or be a whistle blower but he is making some heavy accusations regarding the state department.


I think he's using the various military acronyms to try and psych out his opponents just like he used his body building physique to psyche out the bad guys on the mean streets of LA - even though the same physique would have been an encumbrance when it came to foot pursuits or room clearing. It's just a theory of course with nothing to back it up but my opinion.

The INT stuff he's he talking about in that excerpt can be decoded thusly:

OSINT - Open Source Intelligence. If he wants to know what someone's doing then Facebook is the natural go-to place on the web. A basic google search will tell him much of what he wants to know.

IMINT - Imagery Intelligence. In this context he's talking about aerial and/or satellite imagery - Google Earth has detailed, high-res aerial photography of most suburban areas and "street view" just adds an extra-scary dimension.

HUMINT - Human Intelligence. What I mean here is that he would need only make a few phone calls under false pretenses to elucidate info which would be mighty useful for him for targeting purposes.

It's good practice to keep your online and real lives securely separated. What if the favourite niece of some cop who wronged this guy was the next on his hit list? She has done nothing to him and may find herself a favored target simply because she posts her movements routinely on Twitter. Don't do it. The next anti-hero with a grudge might go after you. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram... these are just a couple of places where someone can find out "actionable" information which can then be collated into a "targeting" package.

Dorner is a former desk-driving counterintelligence dweeb - he knows all about collating actionable information and his opponents know that. Whether he is capable of actioning anything he may collate is a different story. He's a rabbit on the run because he telegraphed his intentions. Just as well. That mistake may have saved some innocent lives.
edit on 8-2-2013 by nottelling because: (no reason given)


Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated.



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 11:43 PM
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They still haven't found him? Dear me...

I just hope he's still alive.

What's more, regardless of his manifesto, I've just realised that we don't actually know - beyond reasonable doubt, that is - that he killed the daughter and fiance. In fact, do we have irrefutable proof that he shot the cops that he injured and killed?

I'm just wondering where he is now? Has he planned meticulously? Did he factor in the police guarding his intended targets? Are the listed targets actually the intended targets (i.e. did he just name some people that knew him and he knew them, but they're not actually the intended targets but are actually a diversion?)? Did he factor in the heavy police presence around central police stations?

If this guy has been planning for years (it would seem so), then I would submit that he had planned meticulously - which can only mean one thing (if he isn't dead right now): there may be more bloodshed...



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by paratus
 


This may be a dumb question, However, what is the definition of a false flag? I have a good idea, but, I see it used on here so often and in so many varied ways that I am unsure of the exact meaning. Not being sarcastic at all. Thank you.



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 11:47 PM
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Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
reply to post by SpaDe_
 


With all due respect, you are assuming everything he has to say is 100% true. There are at least two sides to every story. The guy mentions in his own manifesto he had head injuries. Maybe the department dismissed his allegations and dismissed him for good reason because he was not all there.


WOW, you are definitely an attorney and probably a damn good one too. Very manipulative logic you have there.



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by acmpnsfal

Originally posted by SpaDe_

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Reply to post by SpaDe_
 


Demonize?! Destroy his credibility?! This man murdered two innocent people. Any credibility he had flew out the window when he decided to take someone else's life. He demonized himself. He IS crazy. Stable people don't go on murderous rampages.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



Allegedly killed two innocent people. His credibility might have gone out the window with you, but I think there are many more people out there that want to hear this mans story, and the LAPD is hell bent on silencing him before that story can be told.


Lol allegedly, so let me guess....somebody else committed these crimes and he just happened to have the manifesto laying around and just happened to be where the crime happened. He also conveniently disappeared. This is just some big conspiracy to set him up? What planet are you living on? He did this, hes a horrible person, stop defending him. You may want to hear his story and thats fine. He can write it while hes serving life in prison but he will get no sympathy from me and hopefully none from anyone else, he doesn't deserve it. Hes not only a murderer but a coward. Hes on the run and I feel bad for him when hes found.


You are a shining example of why it sometimes takes weeks to get a jury together for someone to have a fair trial. You can judge this situation all you like, but it doesn't mean that I have to comply with your views. Without any evidence presented you have already convicted this man and sentenced him.

edit on 2/8/2013 by SpaDe_ because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by byGRACE
reply to post by paratus
 


This may be a dumb question, However, what is the definition of a false flag? I have a good idea, but, I see it used on here so often and in so many varied ways that I am unsure of the exact meaning. Not being sarcastic at all. Thank you.


It's a old intelligence community term which was co-opted from an old Naval term.

It means an attack or operation undertaken by one party, who provides evidence which implicates an entirely innocent party, who then gets the blame.

More coherent explanation here: en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 11:54 PM
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WHERE IS THE TAPE?

Also highly suspicious, from CNN's timeline:

Thursday, shortly after 1 a.m. PT: LAPD officer shot in Corona

In Corona, California, Dorner fired at Los Angeles police officers who were assigned to protect someone connected to Dorner's threats, police said.

One officer was grazed in the head. The wound was not life-threatening, Los Angeles police said.


Grazed in the head? The guy is a sniper!

The officers returned fire, and Dorner fled, police said. "Due to damage to the police vehicle because of his gunshots, the officers were unable to pursue him," LAPD Chief Charlie Beck said.


Sure. There was no way anybody could have called for backup during a shootout extended enough to destroy a car but mysteriously leave one person with one minor injury, and not every single cop in Southern California would have locked down the area for miles within three seconds.

And why aren't they talking at all about the security cameras in the private, keycoded parking garage? Even just to say they were unhelpful? Why claim their suspicion is based on the manifesto if they have him at very least entering the location ON CAMERA?



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 11:58 PM
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reply to post by winofiend
 


I am just saying it was a great movie. The part that lines up with this is how they were both at the end of their rope but the situations are different absolutely.



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 11:58 PM
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reply to post by byGRACE
 


I'll try:

An act or event, or series of acts or events, committed or occuring and alleged to have been caused by one or more persons or an alleged group (who may have been coerced to commit said acts or acting under orders or may even been non-existent) for the purposes of furthering an agenda (usually a government agenda) by winning over the minds of the populace.

Hypothetical example (i.e. meaning I don't necessarily think it is true):

9/11.

A devastating terrorist attack was committed agains the United States. If this was a false flag event, this would mean that the cause, regardless of whether Islamic terrorists were involved or not, leads all the way back to the government, or factions within the government, of the United States in order toe further the agenda of invading certain countries and further entrenching America's influence in the Middle East. If Islamic terrorists or groups were used, they would be a middle man in this false flag scenario - much like, for example, you buying something from a company. The company is behind your receipt of that product, but said product has come by the hand of the courier.
edit on 2/8/2013 by HomoSapiensSapiens because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 11:58 PM
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Has anyone found any actual details about the quan murder? All i can find is that they were shot sitting in their car, and the only evidence is that Dorner mentions Quan(her father) in his manifesto. ??



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 12:01 AM
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The TRUTH will come out eventually



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 12:01 AM
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reply to post by MystikMushroom
 


I actually think this movie The Negotiator from 1998 is more fitting of this situation:



The story line actually fits much better, with the exception of a few things.



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 12:02 AM
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Killing Quan's daughter is typical blood feud act. Besides, making LAPD men vulnerable by attacking their families, is something they are not used to, a very hard blow to them.

It appears so that Dorner is driving them nuts, literally.



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 12:04 AM
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reply to post by SpaDe_
 

The evidence is pretty overwhelming that he did it. If the man was innocent he would not be running. He could have turned himself in days ago.



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by acmpnsfal
 


You guys have no evidence



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by nottelling
 


Explanation: It wasn't a mistake to telegraph his intentions ... Because since it IS a WAR .. that is what is legally REQUIRED OK!


Personal Disclosure: And the fact that he is one man against many means nothing as soldiers can fight to the last man and a little thing called technological superiority means one man can do so much nowadays that maybe the realities of War have changed so dramatically [think drones] that we must reconsider what WAR really means in todays modern 21st century era.

As far as I can tell he is operating within the laws of war!

Can anybody show me that this is not the case?


He clearly stated in his unaltered manifesto that the families of those involved were vaible targets and so they were well warned and could have taken action ... such as confessing to their LIES!


I’ll be waiting for a PUBLIC response at a press conference. When the truth comes out, the killing stops.


Note it is that simple to stop all this violence and I will repeat what I posted on pg31 of this thread ...


... maybe if these 40 named individuals were publicly arrested and the Governor of CA makes a public pledge to fully investigate Lt (retired) C. J. Dorner's claims with the utmost above board transparency ... and politely call for this soldier to honourably stand down and also come into protective custody of the military police [note i state protective custody and not arrested unlike those named and shamed in his manifesto] ... then this issue could be resolved without anyone else being killed.


They don't seem to want to do that at all ... and so if it is WAR that they want ... well he is giving them one!

I hope he WINS!


edit on 9-2-2013 by OmegaLogos because: Edited to fix spelling.

edit on 9-2-2013 by OmegaLogos because: Edited to remove a single misplaced [.



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by acmpnsfal
 


Really the evidence is overwhelming? Please elaborate on what evidence there is that without a shadow of a doubt makes this man out to be the shooter.



posted on Feb, 9 2013 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by sepermeru
WHERE IS THE TAPE?

Also highly suspicious, from CNN's timeline:

Thursday, shortly after 1 a.m. PT: LAPD officer shot in Corona

In Corona, California, Dorner fired at Los Angeles police officers who were assigned to protect someone connected to Dorner's threats, police said.

One officer was grazed in the head. The wound was not life-threatening, Los Angeles police said.


Grazed in the head? The guy is a sniper!

The officers returned fire, and Dorner fled, police said. "Due to damage to the police vehicle because of his gunshots, the officers were unable to pursue him," LAPD Chief Charlie Beck said.


Sure. There was no way anybody could have called for backup during a shootout extended enough to destroy a car but mysteriously leave one person with one minor injury, and not every single cop in Southern California would have locked down the area for miles within three seconds.

And why aren't they talking at all about the security cameras in the private, keycoded parking garage? Even just to say they were unhelpful? Why claim their suspicion is based on the manifesto if they have him at very least entering the location ON CAMERA?


Coronado California...where the NAVY SEALS train...just saying.



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