You are all evil Capitalists!!

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posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by jimmiec


Most of those were for personal survival. Electricity was invented for monetary gain. Radio ( Tesla) was invented for monetary gain. Physics was from sheer boredom and a way to sit on your ass and get paid. Nothing you list strengthens your argument. Domesticating animals was also for survival. Eating utensils was from some bored people whittling. Bowls? Same thing, survival.



you are entirely wrong
these innovations were not for survival but to make survival easier and more enjoyable (people were living long before these innovations ....im sure even your type can grasp that concept)
just as many if not all innovations today can be attributed to making survival easier or more enjoyable (after all there would be no market or reason to innovate if they didnt)

and for the record tesla did not invent the radio but it was in fact created by many different innovators (each contributing their unique ideas) over a long period of time
(and if youll recall the reason tesla had a falling out with jp morgan was because he had found a way to produce electricty for free and he wanted to provide it to people free of charge and jp morgan would not have been able to turn a profit selling electricity any longer..... pretty good example of capitalism quashing innovation)
edit on 7-2-2013 by sirhumperdink because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 06:03 PM
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nope... am a poor .. slightly hungover ... happy anarchist ... dont give a tinkers damn in hell about money .. material rubbish or governments in any form ..



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 06:26 PM
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On Adam Smith

"He's pre-capitalist, a figure of the Enlightenment. What we would call capitalism he despised. People read snippets of Adam Smith, the few phrases they teach in school. Everybody reads the first paragraph of The Wealth of Nations where he talks about how wonderful the division of labor is. But not many people get to the point hundreds of pages later, where he says that division of labor will destroy human beings and turn people into creatures as stupid and ignorant as it is possible for a human being to be. And therefore in any civilized society the government is going to have to take some measures to prevent division of labor from proceeding to its limits."
~Noam Chomsky

"Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defence of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all."
~Adam Smith

"...men whose interest is never exactly the same with that of the public, who have generally an interest to deceive and even to oppress the public, and who accordingly have, upon many occasions, both deceived and oppressed it."
~Adam Smith

"All for ourselves and nothing for other people seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind"
~Adam Smith

Not unlike how our (US) Forefathers would oppose current political trends, our revered economists might just be rolling over in their graves for similar reasons.
edit on 7-2-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 06:56 PM
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Capitalism is a system of welfare kings.

The capitalist owner can sit back, do absolutely no work, and still make money off the workers LABOR. The worker does not reap what they sow, they reap what their capitalist owner will allow them to.

Screw that and everyone who believes in the system of a privileged leech class.

edit on 7-2-2013 by WaterBottle because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by sirhumperdink
 


Tesla is credited with inventing the radio. In 1943 (after his death) He was credited with inventing it because the person that initially got the credit used 17 of Tesla's patents.

The phrase "Necessity is the mother of invention" is basically what you are saying. That did bring about inventions. However to say that things like the frisbie, hoola hoop, and the billion other inventions NOT born out of necessity would have been invented regardless of whether they were necessary is flawed logic.

We would not be having this discussion on the internet had it not been for capitalism. There have been, from time to time, great men that invent for the sake of society. They have always been far and few between. We most likely aborted them anyway. Without capitalism we lose incentive, imagination and creativity.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by WaterBottle
 


Only if they inherited it. They worked hard to build their business and reap the benefits once it succeeds. It is in no way perfect. There is absolutely,positively no perfect system that makes everyone happy.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by jimmiec
 



Only if they inherited it. They worked hard to build their business and reap the benefits once it succeeds. It is in no way perfect. There is absolutely, positively no perfect system that makes everyone happy.


Don’t feed the trolls! They grow!

Logic eludes them!

People like her would rather bow to the illusion of labor unions where the elite truly rule the underlings. Free markets are only for people with common sense, self reliance, a work ethic, independence, etc.





edit on 7-2-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
Logic eludes them!

Says the person who equates regulation with freedom.

C'mon seabag, are you happy that they want to place some regulation on the 2nd amendment?

edit on 7-2-2013 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 08:59 PM
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reply to post by jimmiec
 


these are the same people that do not realize money=debt.

if we all paid off our debt.

there would be no money.

so with that fact in mind..

do the banksters seriously want you

to pay your bills of & have a great credit score?

no. no they do not.

they also do not want people understanding the

predatory practices of wall street are funding their rum & cokes..

while the next generation is jobless & trampled under the boot

of Uncle Sam & his to big to fail revolving door band of lobbyist thieves

point the finger at an imaginary terrorist enemies in everyones backyard..



and you people pretend all is good.. shameful.

its not even a capitalist economy when the rules

allow special banks to eat up little banks, defraud the people

and get a bailout at the cost of the people without one banker

going to jail with a toxic product leading to their front door..

hat happened to trust busting? to preventing a monopoly from strangling

out the competition? now the people cheer monopoly building & do not even understand the

dangers of the Fed Res system.. to busy patting each other on the back.. one big circle jerk.






posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by jimmiec
reply to post by sirhumperdink
 


Tesla is credited with inventing the radio. In 1943 (after his death) He was credited with inventing it because the person that initially got the credit used 17 of Tesla's patents.

The phrase "Necessity is the mother of invention" is basically what you are saying. That did bring about inventions. However to say that things like the frisbie, hoola hoop, and the billion other inventions NOT born out of necessity would have been invented regardless of whether they were necessary is flawed logic.

We would not be having this discussion on the internet had it not been for capitalism. There have been, from time to time, great men that invent for the sake of society. They have always been far and few between. We most likely aborted them anyway. Without capitalism we lose incentive, imagination and creativity.


(tesla may have been credited with its invention but again.... even you can understand that does not mean he was solely responsible for its invention and to claim otherwise would be completely disingenuous)

ah yes the frisbee and the hoola hoop.... where would we be with out those
i believe i already covered those under the blanket term "novelties" did i not?
so your counter to the most important innovations in man kinds history coming about without the"aid" of capitalism is that SOME novelties meant to entertain were in fact created purely for profit which i had already conceded to ....bravo....bravo
(do i need to point out that people will invent things to entertain themselves and without intellectual property rights laws those ideas spread and others advance the concepts or suit them to their needs or wants and that a good portion of innovation in entertainment were not motivated by profit........ you like football right?)

go capitalism! thanks to capitalism we have frisbees and hoolahoops!
so tell me .....if you are inventing something and the economy in which you live allows for massive profits to be made dont you think most people are going to opt to make a bunch of money regardless of whether or not that had any influence on them inventing the item? you see how its a logical fallacy to assume that just because people have made money off of something that they would not have done so because it benefits them regardless? do i have to point you to the countless diy websites and engineering communities on the internet that share their expertise and innovations free of charge simply because it benefits all parties to exchange ideas and information?
this whole thread is a joke

innovators will always innovate.... and capitalists will always seek to exploit those innovations to make themselves wealthy (that is the difference between you and i)
edit on 8-2-2013 by sirhumperdink because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by Expat888
nope... am a poor .. slightly hungover ... happy anarchist ... dont give a tinkers damn in hell about money .. material rubbish or governments in any form ..


how do you pay for your drinks? Do you work? Then you are part of the system. Do you receive assistance of any form? Then you are REALLY part of the system. That well fare and well being is possible by the west´s position and actions over seas.

How would you have had half the life you have if your parents were the same way as you....how would the next generation of anarchists come about I am asking?

You may care if you were the last and all that you are dies with you.

I am not judging mind you. I understand that people of all sizes and creeds should exist. I encourage that. I was just wondering if you are aware that you participate in the system. Your happiness comes at a cost to others, OR you. The reasons that made you (MAYBE) (or not) an anarchist are actually augmented by certain anarchist life styles within the system they supposedly want nothing with. They empower the very authority they are at odds with in many instances.


edit on 8-2-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 02:15 AM
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Evil capitalists? Really? Well, isn't it great we have a choice on where to spend our money. Because really, the evil capitalist will not make profits or employ workers if we the consumers choose not to spend our moneny on their products. No one is being force to drive vehicles made by evil capitalists, or fill your stomachs from the food produced by evil capitalists, and no one is being forced to work for evil capitalists to pay their bills. Collective societies have failed consistantly in the past, and the human rights violations by those countries are deplorable (China). In China, they have suicide nets skirting the government run factories. I don't see suicide nets in my country. That is because I live in a free enterprise system, where evil capitalists are free to roam. No one forces me to work, buy, or sell my property.
So, shall we complain about the evils of capitalism but yet still reap the benefits of it? So, boycott computers, internet access, ATMs, airlines, Apple, Levi jeans, Nike, any fast food restoraunts, Starbucks, cell phones, and the list goes on. If you wish to complain about the evil capitalists, and are still using their products, I have one word for you....HYPOCRITE. People love to confuse an economic system such as capitalism with a political system. For those that wish to throw off the chains of capitalism move to N. Korea. Then wait to see how long you survive with out being thrown into a work camp. Ask someone who lived in N. Korea or the Soviet Union and see how much they appreciate living in a capitalistic society. Most of the twenty-somethings out there (not all) have no frame of reference and love to bash a system which they have taken for granted. Chances are high that most people who are posting to this thread, are from a country that is a free society, capital based. So I have to say LOLOLOL! How ironic.



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 06:44 AM
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reply to post by Siberbat
 


I'm with you! My point was about the irony, much as you describe.



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 07:06 AM
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reply to post by WaterBottle
 


what business owner do you see sitting back and doing nothing? if you would clarify that and say BIG business, I will not take issue with what you said. If you mean ALL business owners, even the little business owner that works an average of 15+ hours a day 7 days a week, then I will have to disagree.

I have seen small business owners DO MORE, because they are literally more invested in the business than someone just there to make a buck. They usually LIVE where they work as well.

They are usually involved in the community, provide employment to the community and worry about the image and impact their business has in the community.

Small business is the back bone and the heart of capitalism. I would remind you all that the number of small business employees FAR exceeds those employed by "big" business. When you speak against capitalism you are very much speaking against the little guy.

You would be hard pressed to see a business owner do nothing and still stay in business.

THEY LABOR more because it is THEIR HOUSE.

I grew up in my dads meat market. By the time I was 9 I was doing what I could on weekends and vacations. I am no exception. Every small business since the dawn of time employs the family as well. They usually get worse treatment than an employee. There may be different philosophies in every house, but in most everyone chips in since everyone eats thanks to those doors staying open.

Employees go home, have time off, vacations, lunch breaks, and all sorts of considerations in a small business. Family does not usually.

So I have to disagree. The plight of the average worker is not as dramatic as you wish to portray. Even now I am looking across the street at the hair salon where the ladies daughter is doing someones hair while everyone else went to lunch....The little guy IS small business as well....

As far as big business, it is an extension of the corporation that big government has been turned into.

edit on 8-2-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 02:48 PM
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ya know i believe floorboards are a much better option than matresses for saving money



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by zedVSzardoz
 

While I agree with most of what you said I think it is a bit of a strawman.

First, the clearest owner that does nothing is someone who owns stock or is some type of silent partner in a business regardless of the size of said business.

Second, all the rights that workers have had to be forced upon business owners because history is full of worker exploitation. You make the strongest argument for this when you point out that family members are the ones who work the hardest. If they are willing to work family that hard instead of hiring more hands then how considerate can you expect them to be towards strangers.

Of course not everyone is like that but there is a reason labor laws are the way they are.



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by daskakik
 


OK, but the reason why family works like that is because they need to instill a very strong work ethic into their kids if they are going to have any hope of staying in business when they are in the captains chair. If not the ship will sink.

Also sometimes you really can't afford to hire more hands. Other times you really can't find the right type of person for the job.

In my case I had to get rid of all my employees this year and rely on my wife more. If I never worked like a dog under my father I wouldn't be able to stay in business. Things are really bad over here in Spain and those that can not do for themselves close. I can open and close my business by myself and do everything that my wife doesn't do because I learned early on in life that sometimes you have to do what seems like an insane amount of work everyday with no end in sight.

Exploitation doesn't really work well. Also you end up considering employees like the family.

You don't work them like your kids but since you eat and live with them day in and day out you end up gettin to know them and their families. Their story and yours become intertwined.

I will agree that there may be exceptions but mostly in family owned small businesses which are most of the businesses in a capitalism the worker is treated fairly and sometimes better then family which leads to arguments during the teen years and newly weds where someone from outside is suddenly placed in what seems like an inferior position to the others.

edit on 8-2-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by zedVSzardoz
 

I'm sure that everything you state is true in many cases but exploitation has also happened. It is one of those weaknesses of the system that had to be addressed through laws, which resulted in markets that are less than free but like I said there was a reason for it.



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by zedVSzardoz
 


The best business owner i ever worked for took really good care of his employees. The first week of December I got a $5000 bonus check. Every year he did that for his employees. He was much loved. He made a lot of money and he knew which side his bread was buttered on. His employees WANTED to do all they could for him.
I have also worked for owners who projected hate for anyone that they had to pay. To them you were a slave and his property more or less. They generally did not do well and had a huge turnover of employees. His lack of caring bred contempt,laziness and theft. It really comes down to individuals and human nature as to whether or not employees are taken advantage of. The smart ones prove they care and make even more money because of the fact. They pay well and are rewarded in turn. Capitalism works well when the employer takes good care of the employee. Now if only they could all realize that.



posted on Feb, 8 2013 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by daskakik
 


Fair enough. Like I said earlier, there is nothing wrong with government, or preferably LOCAL government or better yet community boards or committees establishing limits and restrictions on business for the good of the community, which I will add is just good for business as well anyways.
It is when it rewards bad behavior and makes good behavior less viable that I take issue. If I have to pay an employee severance pay after firing him for being a bad worker and making his coworkers and myself work more to pick up his slack or have less job security because he purposely or carelessly loses customers I will think it unjust. The same way I see bailing out a bank that went bankrupt because it gambled on wall street with more than it should have.

If the law says A worker can't be made to work 20 hours a day and must get a just compensation for his efforts I will applaud that because that is just. It is also good business because having his personal life in order lets him focus on work as well as have the necessary moral to work well.
the same way the law says we should pay our debts so the person you owe to can do the same. That is just.

Making me pay debt that is not mine reduces my ability to pay my own debt and eventually something in the system gives in. That is bad business and unjust.

Usually, and this is Biblical, just practices lead to prosperity. Unjust practices lead to ruin.





 
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