Accidently on purpose?? Two Russian jets 'breach' Japanese airspace, Tokyo scrambles warplanes

Hi Folks,

Hope i have put this in the correct forum this time?

According to the independant Two Russian jets 'breach' Japanese airspace, Tokyo scrambles warplanes

See link here : timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

Apparently the issue lasted just a couple of minutes but was enough to get 4 japanese fighters into the air...

It seems that not only China are after some of those Japanese islands!

I can understand why the Japanese wish to take a step forward and revise its post war pacifist constitution, it's about time they stood up to playground bullies : www.worldsecuritynetwork.com...
Thoughts from ATSers?

Kindest respects

Rodinus

Wished the article elaborated on the aircraft instead of just parroting the lock-on incedent more. Russians seem to like to show off their aircraft to more than just US Alaskan patrol flights. They used to send their "Bear" turbo prop bombers so close and so frequently that some tail gunners and US pilots would wave back and worth and shake cans of coca-cola(tail-gunners)

I`m more surprised that the Japanese-Russian disputes from WW2 still exist. At least theres a strong probabilty of a peaceful solution between those two.

reply to post by Rodinus

Russia has done this before to the UK airspace and jets scrambled, rumors are they were testing our response time.

www.guardian.co.uk...

ETA: They used blackjack bomber planes, and they did it 20 times.

reply to post by Parksie


Guess that's called playing with fire!

Wonder if they would do the same thing over US airspace???

Kindest respects

Rodinus

Originally posted by Rodinus
reply to post by Parksie

 

Guess that's called playing with fire!

Not if you're the fire..

Wonder if they would do the same thing over US airspace???

And then what would happen? It's Russia, not Zimbabwe

reply to post by StratosFear



Sorry i am a bit crap on airplanes, the only ones i like are Spitfires!

Kindest respects

Rodinus

The Russians like to test the responce time, they test the Canadians all the time, we send out F-18's from Cold Lake Alberta to intercept and "play" tag with them at least 20 times a year. Nothing new, just a constent game of "lets see how much time it takes for them to reach us" ....

reply to post by Rodinus


It was only a pair of Su-27s which is a large fighter. Seemed like a patrol that got "confused" about their location. Wouldnt dwell on it to much unless they start mock bombing runs on Japanese cities or ships.

Russian WSO taking "Recon Pics" CHEESE!


Awww look, they get along(Bear and Eagle)
www.xairforces.net...

After a bit of fish and chips and alot of vodka the Brits had to escort them back home.
www.newprophecy.net...

reply to post by Nuke2013


Once i believe there was a switch up were russians flew CF-18`s and some american F-16`s and we got to fly their Mig-29s. They had it in a documentary years ago, now im wanting to see it again. Pilots are pilots no matter where they come from, let the politicians fight it out with each other.

Originally posted by StratosFear
reply to post by Nuke2013

 

Once i believe there was a switch up were russians flew CF-18`s and some american F-16`s and we got to fly their Mig-29s. They had it in a documentary years ago, now im wanting to see it again. Pilots are pilots no matter where they come from, let the politicians fight it out with each other.

i remember that, it was in the 90's and the the Russians love the F-18's and 16's and so did the we like some aspects of the Migs, verry manuvrable caracteristics but the Canadians and Americans had the best over all planne by a long shot.
Realy, when we start thinking about it, if an American F-14 Tomcat can take out a Mig-29 straight out of the sky, imagine what the F-18 (Hornet or not Hornet) and 16 can do ....lol

Yeah, They've also apprently done this to Norway several times before to check response time.

Originally posted by Nuke2013
The Russians like to test the responce time, they test the Canadians all the time, we send out F-18's from Cold Lake Alberta to intercept and "play" tag with them at least 20 times a year. Nothing new, just a constent game of "lets see how much time it takes for them to reach us" ....

I think Harper and Putin are buds. Actually, I'm sure of it.
I remember a tv interview when Harper was wanting to upgrade our fighter jets, and he was talking about the Russians in our airspace. He was absolutely giddy. Couldn't stop smiling.

When I saw that, I was sure he had told Putin "we need another fly over, I want some new jets".

reply to post by Nuke2013


Depends on if its Beyond Visual Range, BVR. Up close guns only it will come down to pilot skill. Why cant dogfighting be an Olympic sport?

AmeriNATO craft have the edge on tech, but Russians have brute force, plus i think Russian aircraft are easier to fly and maintain which is why they score so high on my "To Get" list

(guns only)
F-15 vs Su-27 w/o thrust vectoring =
F-16 vs Mig-29 =
F-86 vs Mig15 =
F/A-18E vs Mig-33 =
F-15MTDActiv vs Su-37 AWWWW YEAH!,

I do hate to say but a Mig-29 would fly oddly shaped circles around an F-14 in a dogfight. TCat WSO better hope those AIM-7 do something before the merge. AIM-54`s are crap to small targets. I do miss them though, I dont think any other jet fighter will ever have the same effect a Tomcat has on aviation enthusiasts

Damn wheres my TopGun OST

The incident lasted less than a minute, but it is a curious thing to happen around such a time of tension in the region to an already on-edge Japan.

A subtle declaration of alliances from the Ruskis, perhaps...?

As the Chinese and N.Koreans have been throwing their weight around I hope the Japanese revamp their constitution to mirror today's realities in the region.Their navy and air force should be strengthened wouldn't be a bad idea.

Originally posted by AgentX09
As the Chinese and N.Koreans have been throwing their weight around I hope the Japanese revamp their constitution to mirror today's realities in the region.Their navy and air force should be strengthened wouldn't be a bad idea.

Kind of late for that in a lot of respects: A) China are already too much muscle for Japan's "self-defence force" and you cannot go full 'übermensch' overnight. B) It would start an arms race in the region, further condemning the place to future war. C) Japan looking like it's spoiling for war may well be perceived as an effective declaration of thus.

They do it all the time with us to verify out response time. Not sure if this is related but they might be working with China giving them the information for the response time for Japan.

reply to post by CristobalColonic


On the contrary. Japan has the advantage currently, even though they are smaller. The PLAAF is made up of quite a few older MiG based airframes. They have about 500 modern aircraft, but the range they'd be fighting at favors Japan, as well as the fact that Japan routinely practices in flight refueling. China would have to learn to do that quickly if they want to fight in Japan's back yard.

Originally posted by Parksie
reply to post by Rodinus

 

Russia has done this before to the UK airspace and jets scrambled, rumors are they were testing our response time.

www.guardian.co.uk...

ETA: They used blackjack bomber planes, and they did it 20 times.

edit on 7-2-2013 by Parksie because: (no reason given)

What you are posting in relation to the UK is an example of the media not comprehending the difference between sovereign airspace and an air defence zone of interest - Flight Information Region. The zone of interest is in international airspace. The Russian aircraft are operating in international airspace. The Russians are operating outside the 12nm limit. NATO chooses to intercept them in international airspace. Exactly the same as NATO aircraft operating off the coast of Russia and being intercepted by Russian fighters.

www.airn.nato.int...

NATO Integrated Air Defence System (NATINADS) is busy working to keep our skies safe. A recent sortie by two Russian Tupolev TU-160 ‘Blackjack’ bombers illustrates the need for constant vigilance. Flying from mainland Russia they were detected as they swept over the northern tip of Norway in international air space and intercepted by NATO’s most northern NATINADS fighters, Norwegian F16s from NAAF Bodo. Subsequently, they were continuously tracked towards the UK and intercepted by two Tornado F3s fighters, part of the UK component of NATINADS, from RAF Leuchars in Scotland. Wing Commander Mark Gorringe, Officer Commanding 111 Sqn, RAF Leuchars, said: ‘This is not an unusual incident and people may be surprised to know that our crews have successfully scrambled to intercept Russian aircraft on more than 10 occasions since the start of 2009.’ Some Russian missions fly far out into the Atlantic and whilst others journey south towards the coastline of north west Europe, turning short of penetrating sovereign airspace. These incidents concern NATO airmen as the Russian military flights are often not coordinated with civil Air Traffic Control (ATC) and therefore, can pose a real threat to flight safety in what are some of the busiest air-routes in the world. Although NATINADS is not responsible for flight safety across Europe, it contributes by assisting civil ATC by identifying and tracking such incidents.

Even the Russians are strict on such incursions. They know that a deliberate incursion would result in a diplomatic incident.

At some points during the patrolling flight, the long-range aviation planes were escorted by a pair of Norwegian Air Force F-16 fighter planes,” Drik said. “All flights of the Air Force planes were and are made in strict compliance with the international rules of the use of airspace over neural waters without violating the borders of other states,” he said.

www.itar-tass.com...

47. The UK press have featured stories that imply that Russia's air tactics are a threat to UK security.[76] We sought information from the MoD to clarify the scale and nature of the issue of military incursions into NATO and UK airspace. We were told that during 2007-2009 no Russian aircraft have entered UK airspace—defined as 12 nautical miles from the UK coastline—without authorisation. However, Russian military aircraft have entered the UK Flight Information Region—outside UK territorial airspace—without permission. This is part of international airspace and, as such, Russia is able to exercise its defence capabilities there.

www.publications.parliament.uk...

Question Asked by Lord Jopling To ask Her Majesty's Government, further to the Written Answer by Baroness Taylor of Bolton on 24 January 2008 (WA 58), on how many occasions in each of the last three years Royal Air Force aircraft have been launched to monitor Russian aircraft approaching UK airspace.[HL1663] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever): The number of days on which Royal Air Force Quick Reaction Alert (QRA) aircraft have launched to identify Russian military aviation that approached or entered the NATO air policing area for which the UK has responsibility in each of the past three years is contained in the table below. The Russian aircraft remained in international airspace at all times. Number of days QRA launched in response to Russian military aviation 2009 - 11 2010 - 11 2011 - 10 2012 to July - 6

www.publications.parliament.uk...

Continued on next post.....

reply to post by Parksie


Parliament - Written Answers to Questions 24th January 2013

Thursday 24 January 2013

Angus Robertson (Moray, Scottish National Party) To ask the Secretary of State for Defence on how many occasions Royal Air Force aircraft have been launched to monitor Russian aircraft approaching UK airspace in each of the last three years; and where each such flight was (a) directed and (b) scrambled from. Andrew Robathan (South Leicestershire, Conservative) Royal Air Force quick reaction alert (QRA) aircraft are based at RAF Leuchars and RAF Coningsby. The number of days on which QRA aircraft have launched in response to Russian military aviation that approached or entered the NATO air policing area for which the UK has responsibility in the each of the last three years is contained in the following table. The Russian aircraft remained in international airspace at all times. Not every launch resulted in an interception as some incidents were resolved prior to interception. Number of days QRA launched in response to Russian military aviation 2010 11 2011 10 2012 8 I am withholding where each such flight was directed and scrambled from as deterrence is a principal function of QRA and QRA is in turn an integral part of the air defence of the UK. The disclosure of information that might compromise the QRA deterrent capability would, or would be likely to, prejudice the capability, effectiveness or security of the armed forces

www.publications.parliament.uk...

Unfortunately the media get it all mixed up and the following is reported time and time again.

'Russian nuclear bombers invade UK Airspace'

'Two Russian bombers, capable of carrying nuclear weapons, have been caught flying over British airspace.
The unwelcome guests spent four hours flying over the Isle of Lewis despite being intercepted by two RAF jets.'

news.sky.com...

'RAF reports 20 instances of Russian jets flying over Scotland'

'RAF catches Russian bombers in UK airspace'

www.scotsman.com...

'Russian Bombers' Secret Flights over Scotland'

www.express.co.uk...

The next time you read in the media. From the link you posted.

Eventually, the Russians left UK airspace and, after four hours, the Tornado crews stood down and returned to Leuchars.

www.guardian.co.uk...

It is an example of journalists not comprehending the difference between sovereign UK airspace and the UK Flight Information Region which is international airspace.