Get rid of Minimum Wage, Save the World!

reply to post by SaturnFX


Yep, you are right, but not because of the idea of paying a higher than basic wage as was described in the OP that henry ford did. But more so because of the greed of the many. Re the bra thing, it was a reference to the feminist movement from long ago which has continued to this day. Years ago, women would work until they were ready to have a family and then stay home to look after he family. They were happy doing that and didn't expect a handout from the govt just because they decided to have a baby. But naturally, some greedy pr1ck decided to stir up the vocal minority and demand a reward for doing what comes naturally. Now imo, that is where things went south. This forced the employers into a position of finding a way to overcome what wav, to them an untenable position. No employer in their right mind would want to pay 2 wages for the one position. It meant higher expenses. so it was inevitable that they would find a solution. Being the hiring of casuals.
Re right wing programing. I would hazard a guess that I am so far left of your position that I would make you look like a staunch rabbott supporter. But I also am able to see how the down right stupidity of idiot feminist greedy money hungry fools has actually caused what was a good relationship between workers and employers to rapidly go down the sewer.

If you can't see that there are times that too much interference and too many demands by those who are never happy with what we've achieved will cause hardship and missed opportunities instead of improved conditions then imo you are no better than the greedy, lazy, idiots who expect to be rewarded for doing what comes naturally.

so before you come at me with a condescending holier than thou attitude, think of the bigger picture. The unions have their place, but if they go too far, they will force those that employ the average joe blow to find alternative ways and that will end up with less people working. sheesh!!!

reply to post by SaturnFX


And one more thing. Re your comment:
"Actually, the backing is called statistical fact of the global economy."

one or two words to their whole reply does NOT provide a decent answer to the OP. As he/she said, did they even read the OP? Me thinks not, so I stand by my comment that they did not back uptheir pathetic little comment.
And you have really got under my skin insinuating I have a right wing agenda.

My pet hates are 1) ME dogma (isreali or muslim or christian it really doesn't matter), 2) the pathetic lies of the libs 3) the imo, sleezy style of the maggot leading their party at the moment. 4) hopeless voters who fall for their lousy ideology

I really can't see me being right wing with an inground attitude like that can you?

Originally posted by leemachino
And again in a perfect world your idea would have merit. We dont live in a world like that and never will.

Had you qualified in the OP that this was all a dream in a world that doesn't exist, then I doubt this thread would have gone past page one. In the current world everything you say is wrong. In some alternate perfect world I don't think minimum wage would have a place to begin with because it wouldn't be needed.

At what point did you realize you were wrong?

reply to post by camaro68ss


Productivity and quantity is not always good. That is what our economic system often confuses us into believing, that it is the epitome of good for us. It's not.

Look at the definitions of productivity per the standard economics practices of countries, and then ask people what they think is productive for themselves and the human race. You'll get very different responses, and for good reason.

Case in point, Hasbro and other toy companies may be making ass tons more plastic bull# these days than yesteryear, increasing their profits, increasing employment in China, and increasing American GDP by a bit. Let me ask you, is that good?

I agree totally with the OP and have in fact espoused this philosophy myself.

reply to post by camaro68ss


I disagree. I believe that a Global Minimum Wage/ Human Rights Agreement should have been
established BEFORE any Free Trade Agreements were signed.

Those responsible for the Betterment of Humanity mismanaged The Plan.

The evidence is plain to see if you look at The Global Economic Conditions threatening The World

at this very moment.

Consider this for example, Baseball, Football, Basketball,Soccer,Etc. are all played upon LEVEL
PLAYING FIELDS. Not only that, There are recognized Umpires,Referees,and Judges who oversee
and regulate the game.

Hence the term FAIR PLAY. Imagine Fair Trade.

S&F

reply to post by Wildmanimal


LOL, you think that sports isn't rigged too?

Its a wonderful notion. But any time influence can be peddled, corruption happens. The NFL is no different.

I support OP. It's as though you people like working as slaves for your owners. Owners of these companies make a killing off your hard labour. This practice is legitimised by the minimum wage. Companies should be scrambling to get skilled workers as that would improve the service consumers get, the living situations of the workers and you'd get fair reward for your hard work rather than wage slavery. If your time is worth $7 or something ridiculous to you, then you deserve to be poor.

Originally posted by greatfriendbadfoe
Years ago, women would work until they were ready to have a family and then stay home to look after he family. They were happy doing that and didn't expect a handout from the govt just because they decided to have a baby. But naturally, some greedy pr1ck decided to stir up the vocal minority and demand a reward for doing what comes naturally.

The whole womans lib thing is quite simple
equal pay for equal work.
This is not some absurd notion..if someone types 80wpm, and another person types 80wpm, the pay should not then be determined on who's sexual organs are located on the outside. This is common sense..something that for a insane amount of time in history has been missing.

You will also find that our grandparents probably had a lot more handouts than you are aware of due to poverty being the general staplemark of American society until the 50s. It wasn't until the big movements of civil rights, sufferage, labor, etc that things improved for the country.

Feminism was a strong backbone that made the nation greater. Sure, plenty didn't like that. Consider who went to war (Men) and who stayed at home and took the manufacturing jobs while their husbands and such were off fighting the good fight.
It was corporatist heaven...have near slave wage women working your factorys building bombs that the men, being paid by the government, used to bomb foreign lands. The biggest fighters, and releasers of propaganda, were corporations that were seeing their slave class (women) being given equal pay. They were the originators of the women are babymakers and not equal in pay.

The propaganda is since been buried considering there is simply no going back to the good ole days...surprised to see it occasionally pop up though. Guess just because the propaganda stopped being funded, it doesn't immediately die off.

Originally posted by greatfriendbadfoe
And you have really got under my skin insinuating I have a right wing agenda.

My pet hates are 1) ME dogma (isreali or muslim or christian it really doesn't matter), 2) the pathetic lies of the libs 3) the imo, sleezy style of the maggot leading their party at the moment. 4) hopeless voters who fall for their lousy ideology

I really can't see me being right wing with an inground attitude like that can you?

Erm...ya...
Libs are left
So..your claiming your not some far right wing person because you don't like liberals, their leaders, the liberal voters, or their ideology..
That sort of makes you 100% in the far right.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Well how about that, I must have been looking at the line from the other side. No matter, imo libs are and have always been for the rich and labor has always been for and still is for the average joe blow. But one thing is for sure, if people push business too far, then they will find ways to get around any new "benefits" that the greedy lazy fools who have ambushed the labor party have obtained. so besides playing games over left and right, have you had time to at least think about what demanding too much and giving nothing back will do?

reply to post by SaturnFX


Just looked up wiki and got this:

Two political groups dominate the Australian political spectrum, forming a de facto two party system. One is the Australian Labor Party (ALP), a left-wing party which is formally linked to the Australian labour movement. Formed in 1893, it has been a major party federally since 1901, and has been one of the two major parties since the 1910 Federal election. Currently the ALP is in government federally, and also in South Australia, Tasmania and the Australian Capital Territory.

That's where I got the left concept from

Historical claims are worthless on this this issue. The world was not globalised in Henry Fords day.

We live in a world where the labour market for unskilled labour is now global. If you remove the protections of the minimum wage you will retain some jobs onshore with the downside that those jobs will be offered at the same rate of pay as they would be in India or China.

You would smash the working conditions of the unskilled american worker down to the levels of the third world. If you want to compete in that world you will have to acknowledge a new reality of american slums, workhouses and child labour.

Thats what globalisation does. The work goes to those places willing to abuse their poor to the maximum extent.

reply to post by justwokeup


I think you've hit the nail on the head here jwu.

It doesn't matter what 1st world country we think of, if employers aren't given "something" then they WILL look elsewhere for ways to get their labor force. It's a realdelicate balancing act for the unions to get what they can for the ave joe but at the same time not pushing the bosses towards the edge of the cliff

But in the OP, I got from it not that a minimum wage should be scrapped but that employers paying higher than a minimum wage could even increase their productivity since their workers would be working as hard as they could to keep their high paid position.

But yep, you're right, we ARE living in a global community now and work WILL eventually go to those countries that 1) have workers willing to work forless pay and 2) those same workers will still work hard since overpopulation in the workforce makkes them work hard or lose their job.

At first, quality migh suffer but over time, imo quality will be just as high as products made in (insert your 1st world country here). Take china, taiwan, japan for example

Do I like it? nope, can anything be done about it? imo nope.

so I guess that's close to checkmate for all of us who live in usa, aust, etc

Originally posted by greatfriendbadfoe
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Just looked up wiki and got this:

Two political groups dominate the Australian political spectrum, forming a de facto two party system. One is the Australian Labor Party (ALP), a left-wing party which is formally linked to the Australian labour movement. Formed in 1893, it has been a major party federally since 1901, and has been one of the two major parties since the 1910 Federal election. Currently the ALP is in government federally, and also in South Australia, Tasmania and the Australian Capital Territory.

That's where I got the left concept from

lol
ok, issue here. I am in the US, and so assumed...ya..point of reference is wrong.
over in the states, you got the left wing libs, and the right wing cons.


-gives a swift kick to cultural differences on the same names-

Originally posted by greatfriendbadfoe
so besides playing games over left and right, have you had time to at least think about what demanding too much and giving nothing back will do?

Depends.
If the poor do it, we call it socialism through unions
if the rich do it, we call it capitalism through lobbiests

Which one hurts an economy more?

reply to post by camaro68ss


Go ahead and ask The Waltons how much they'd pay if they were to remove minimum wage. Guarantee it would be less than 3 dollars an hour. Lucky if they could just do what UK does and make the government welfare recipients work all day there for nothing but their government check like Pickwick does. Yeah makes perfectly no sense to me you're absolutely correct. Because it's senseless. It's retarded.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by greatfriendbadfoe
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Just looked up wiki and got this:

Two political groups dominate the Australian political spectrum, forming a de facto two party system. One is the Australian Labor Party (ALP), a left-wing party which is formally linked to the Australian labour movement. Formed in 1893, it has been a major party federally since 1901, and has been one of the two major parties since the 1910 Federal election. Currently the ALP is in government federally, and also in South Australia, Tasmania and the Australian Capital Territory.

That's where I got the left concept from

lol
ok, issue here. I am in the US, and so assumed...ya..point of reference is wrong.
over in the states, you got the left wing libs, and the right wing cons.


-gives a swift kick to cultural differences on the same names-

so saturn, if I was in the usa, after everything I have been following for many many years, I think I would be leaning towards the dems, so is that left or right?

Years ago, I was watching the little drunk wallowing in his presidency while your country was struggling with internal economics. Then came along 9/11 and you could almost see the sigh of relief he gave. He now had a way to divert the attention of the american people away from his bungling efforts of homeland economics. (they were my thoughtsv as 9/11 occurred and imo those thoughts have come to fruition).

If you look further back, I saw who I consider your best president by far, gunned down. Was it a coincidence that the head of the CIA was one g bush? imo both the father and the son are the most slimy people I have ever observed.

I guess I feel this way about the GOP because of their associations with my pet hates, religious dogma, rich people who don't give a damn about the average joe blow and the stupidity of those that vote these types of maggots into power

I cannot believe the absolute nonsense that some people are writing. Did the economy collapse because of the minimum wage being to high or the fact that wealth has been unfairly divided and the rich few have seen their incomes rise over 38% while the working wage has fallen year after year. By the way the very nature of economics means wages and lifestyle can not increase forever this was the proble wit the banks they though house prices would just keep on rising. Face it too most work in the future most production will be machine made there simply are less jobs to do and why do people want to work 7 days a week 12 hours a day i have done it its insane. We need to expect a lower standard of living at least not higher. We are using up 2 planets worth of resources and that is with 40% of the world living on less than 2 dollar`s a day. Come on people lets learn to share what we have without expecting more !

reply to post by camaro68ss

How's that work Camaro-according to you people would earn more if the minimum wage was abandoned, so dropping it would creat INflation, not DEflation.

Reality is, you know your argument is flawed on very possible level, as any familiarity with social history would tell you.

Look at it another way-Africa doesnt have MW and most people there are extremely poor. Why arent they all earning a good wage?

1920s England-no MW and the leading cause of death in Liverpool, which was I believe our 2nd most prosperous city, was malnutrition-surely people should have been on good money and short hours?

1980 UK-I'd just left school-the only job I could get was factory work on £30.00 a week-the Factory was profitable enough for the owner to buy houses and brand new Jaguars for his 18 and 19 year old sons-but there were people working there who couldnt afford to eat dinner-i used to share mine with one of them. How come the owner wasnt paying over the odds to get more motivated staff-the answer is, he didnt need to and didnt want to-capitalism is that simple.

I'd post more, but I know you will NEVER change your mind.