FBI: “discs recovered”, Air Force “greatly concerned”, “at a complete loss” + more memos

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posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 08:53 AM
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I see there is some Carl Sagan in the mix in there too. Great person with a great mind, but also the biggest scientific skeptic. I remember him always saying stuff like extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. Yes it certainly looks that way when it comes to UFO's. Even more so when you have a government that hides everything and makes everything top secret. However, pictures, video evidence and eye witness testimony has been used in the court of law everyday.




posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by Blue Shift
It would be nice if these documents actually lead to the discovery of hard physical evidence of something, or at least more documents documenting some hard physical evidence the first documents helped uncover. But the more I consider them, and the longer they sit around without newer follow-up documents to help verify them or the activities they describe, the more I think that all they really add up to is a lot of interdepartmental tail-chasing.

So what happened to the saucers? I guess they just vanished, because in this day and age, paperwork multiplies like bacteria. And if there are aliens and saucers sitting around, with large groups of people actually studying them and generating reports, it seems unlikely that there wouldn't be even more documents concerning them now than there were then. Piles and volumes of documents, the sheer volume of which makes them ever more difficult to contain.

A relatively small number of blurry documents from decades ago just makes me think that whoever created them were clueless and ignorant and guessing about rumors and scuttlebutt and fantasy, and nothing ever happened to make them less clueless and ignorant.

Pretty much all I would think of to say were I articulate enough, but being 61, I'm sure My eulogy would have been over for several months by the time I made my way through all this. The amount is Staggering to be sure.

I'll go ahead and say it because it seems unlikely anybody else will out of awe and respect, and mind you I'm discounting nothing !! ....it's just that I'm overwhelmed with the volume of your thread, 'and impressed', but for us mere mortals, ........what did you diffinatively come away with.....? Any Concrete Evidence of a true extraterrestrial? I guess, I'm avoiding reading through the whole thing (too daunting at this time) and asking what others might...... Are We Alone? To paraphrase Mulder, "the truth is out there"

Excellent work, great compilation and effort.
I guess other members will boil this all down to the Key Elements........



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 09:14 AM
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Wow, spectacular!
It appears as though there is so much info its overwhelming!! I am definitely gonna try to read through it, but quite honestly... there is just so much.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by IsaacKoi

Part B1 : Roswell and Hoover on access to discs recovered (1947)



The teletype dated 8 July 1947 shown below expressly relates to the Roswell incident. (It can also be found in Part 2 of 16 at page 5 of 79 and at the link mentioned in Part C4 below).


This document indicates that “the object found resembles a high altitude weather balloon with a radar reflector”, which would appear to be consistent with the subsequent Air Force attempts to debunk the Roswell UFO crash stories. However, the document continues with the intriguing (and frustratingly vague…) comment that “but that telephonic conversation between their office and Wright Field had not xxxxxxxxxx borne out this belief”.




The name redacted in the above copy of the memo appears on some websites as Major Curtan, indicating that the FBI released an unredacted copy of this memo at some point. See, for example, a post by Don Allen from 1992 at:
www.v-j-enterprises.com...



From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: FILE: Roswell - FBI Memo
Date: 15 Sep 92 04:06:43 GMT



FBI DALLAS 7-8-47 6-17 PM

DIRECTOR AND SAC, CINCINNATI URGENT

FLYING DISC, INFORMATION CONCERNING. MAJOR CURTAN, HEADQUARTERS

EIGHTH AIR FORCE, TELEPHONICALLY ADVISED THIS OFFICE THAT AN OBJECT

PURPORTING TO BE A FLYING DISC WAS RE COVERED NEAR ROSWELL, NEW

MEXICO, THIS DATE. THE DISC IS HEXAGONAL IN SHAPE AND WAS SUSPENDED

FROM A BALLON BY A CABLE, WHICH BALLON WAS APPROXIMATELY TWENTY

FEET IN DIAMETER. MAJOR CURTAN FURTHER ADVISED THAT THE OBJECT
FOUND RESEMBLES A HIGH ALTITUDE WEATHER BALLOON WITH A RADAR

REFLECTOR, BUT THAT TELEPHONIC CONVERSATION BETWEEN THEIR OFFICE AND

WRIGHT FIELD HAD NOT xxxxxxxxxx BORNE OUT THIS BELIEF. DISC AND

BALLOON BEING TRANSPORTED TO WRIGHT FIELD BY SPECIAL PLANE FOR EXAMIN

INFORMATION PROVIDED THIS OFFICE BECAUSE OF NATIONAL INTEREST IN CASE

xxxx AND FACT THAT NATIONAL BROADCASTING COMPANY, ASSOCIATED PRESS, A

OTHERS ATTEMPTING TO BREAK STORY OF LOCATION OF DISC TODAY. MAJOR

CURTAN ADVISED WOULD REQUEST WRIGHT FIELD TO ADVISE CINCINNATI

OFFICE RESULTS OF EXAMINATION. NO FURTHER INVESTIGATION BEING

CONDUCTED.




(Clearly, finding any unredacted copies of official documents is much preferable to simply using redacted copies since, amongst other things, relevant names make further investigations much easier).


A report on Roswell published by the United State Air Force in 1995 entitled “The Roswell Report Fact vs. Fiction in the New Mexico Desert” (written by Colonel Richard Weaver and 1st Lt James McAndrew) quotes part of this memo at page 22 in the following paragraph (page 39 of 998 in the PDF version at the link below):

contrails.iit.edu...


what was originally reported to have been recovered was a balloon of some sort, usually described as a "weather balloon," although the majority of the wreckage that was ultimately displayed by General Ramey and Major Marcel in the famous photos (Atch 16) in Fort Worth was that of a radar target normally suspended from balloons. This radar target, discussed in more detail later, was certainly consistent with the description of July 9 newspaper article which discussed "tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks." Additionally, the description of the "flying disc" was consistent with a document routinely used by most pro-UFO writers to indicate a conspiracy in progress-the telegram from the Dallas FBI office of July 8, 1947. This document quoted in part states: " ... The disc is hexagonal in shape and was suspended from a balloon by a cable, which balloon was approximately twenty feet in diameter .... the object found resembles a high altitude weather balloon with a radar reflector .... disc and balloon being transported .... "


As will be apparent to anyone looking at the full document above, that Air Force report was extremely selective in its quotation. Richard Weaver quoted the words “the object found resembles a high altitude weather balloon with a radar reflector” but then completely skips the intriguing words that follow “but that telephonic conversation between their office and Wright Field had not xxxxxxxxxx borne out this belief”.

Umm, excuse me, but that sort of partial quotation is just not cricket (and reinforces the desirability of having the source material as easily accessible and searchable as possible…)!


Red Flag #1
This document is disinformation.
Hexagon shaped + weather balloon = FBI Boondoggle

Just stay with Crash at Corona by Stanton Friedman.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 

Thank you for the thread!! I will try to help out were I can.

I did some digging on the archive.org site and I think I may have found the page with the Corso files. However I'm not sure if these are the ones you are looking for.

preview.tinyurl.com

The link for cufon.org's document has a file number of 62-HQ-11017.
The first document (part 1) on the link posted above is also 62-HQ-11017.

Please let me know if this is what you are looking for and I will continue to see if I can locate other files.

OiO



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 10:21 AM
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When you have so much data, tell me one can be certain what they are dleaing with, and yes why exclude even out of this world... Exactly if you are to remain credible, you cannot exclude any possibilities.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by Plotus

Originally posted by Blue Shift
It would be nice if these documents actually lead to the discovery of hard physical evidence of something, or at least more documents documenting some hard physical evidence the first documents helped uncover. But the more I consider them, and the longer they sit around without newer follow-up documents to help verify them or the activities they describe, the more I think that all they really add up to is a lot of interdepartmental tail-chasing.

So what happened to the saucers? I guess they just vanished, because in this day and age, paperwork multiplies like bacteria. And if there are aliens and saucers sitting around, with large groups of people actually studying them and generating reports, it seems unlikely that there wouldn't be even more documents concerning them now than there were then. Piles and volumes of documents, the sheer volume of which makes them ever more difficult to contain.

A relatively small number of blurry documents from decades ago just makes me think that whoever created them were clueless and ignorant and guessing about rumors and scuttlebutt and fantasy, and nothing ever happened to make them less clueless and ignorant.

Pretty much all I would think of to say were I articulate enough, but being 61, I'm sure My eulogy would have been over for several months by the time I made my way through all this. The amount is Staggering to be sure.

I'll go ahead and say it because it seems unlikely anybody else will out of awe and respect, and mind you I'm discounting nothing !! ....it's just that I'm overwhelmed with the volume of your thread, 'and impressed', but for us mere mortals, ........what did you diffinatively come away with.....? Any Concrete Evidence of a true extraterrestrial? I guess, I'm avoiding reading through the whole thing (too daunting at this time) and asking what others might...... Are We Alone? To paraphrase Mulder, "the truth is out there"

Excellent work, great compilation and effort.
I guess other members will boil this all down to the Key Elements........


your not even at retirement age and you can read a post like this!

whats wrong with you, how you going to spend your pension @ 65 if you cant go through this..

BTW fantastic post I got tomorrow off work to look through this! S+F

if you get this in a nut shell its not fun.

Jh



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by OneisOne
 



Originally posted by OneisOne
I will try to help out were I can.

I did some digging on the archive.org site and I think I may have found the page with the Corso files. However I'm not sure if these are the ones you are looking for.

preview.tinyurl.com


GREAT!


Many thanks OneisOne. Your post is EXACTLY the sort of response I wanted to my thread (although, like any man, I have no objection to posts full of lavish praise as well...).

I've run those Corso files through some OCR software and added to them to the collections of files I mentioned in my introduction to this thread, i.e. the Box.com and Skydrive copies at the two links below, with files names of corso_philip_j_part01.pdf to part04.pdf:
www.box.com...
sdrv.ms...

Copies of relevant files found on non-FBI websites weren't included in the above collections, since I wanted to restrict their contents to files downloaded from the official FBI websites so hadn't included the copy of Corso's file on the CUFON - to avoid any possible questions over their provenance (although I'd rather have links to additional relevant files on non-FBI websites than no further links at all...).



I hope a mod or two is following this thread and ensures that OneisOne gets some Applause for his contribution.

Thanks again OneisOne. I hope you are able to find some more of the files mentioned in Part G!

edit on 7-2-2013 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 12:58 PM
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I didn't believe the whole JFK getting shot by his driver, also never would i have thought it was because of alien information. I found this video of the driver close up and it does look like he did shoot him. what do you think?youtu.be...
edit on 7-2-2013 by rumor21 because: (no reason given)
edit on 7-2-2013 by rumor21 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 

You are welcome.

One person listed on the FBI site from 2 December 2000 is Philip K. Dick, however the name is not hyperlinked. According to the top of the page, items listed but not hyperlinked are items viewable at in the FBI's reading room (J. Edgar Hoover Building).

There is this one blog that has 6 pages from the document here.

Do you (or any other member) know how much a typical FOIA costs. I saw on the application there is a field for "willing to pay up to ____" and was curious as to approximate cost.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 01:24 PM
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This is just the most mammoth thread I've witnessed in my short life here! Such dedication is noteworthy and exceptional, S&F for that. This will take some time to get through and I'll probably hear some nagging from her indoors but I congratulate you on such a lot of work, great stuff!



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by OneisOne
One person listed on the FBI site from 2 December 2000 is Philip K. Dick, however the name is not hyperlinked. According to the top of the page, items listed but not hyperlinked are items viewable at in the FBI's reading room (J. Edgar Hoover Building).


I emailed the FBI a month or two ago (when researching this thread) and asked whether files which had been viewable in the FBI's reading room a few years ago had been scanned by the FBI and therefore could be provided without a formal FOIA request being made. I was told by the FBI that a FOIA request would have to be made.

(I've hesitated about burdening the FBI with FOIA requests since I'd prefer to find as much as possible online and from other researchers without bothering officials working at tax payer expense. I have fairly strong feelings about the UFO community sorting out what has already been obtained and sharing that material before bothering government agencies with requests...).



There is this one blog that has 6 pages from the document here.


Thanks. I hadn't seen that one.



Do you (or any other member) know how much a typical FOIA costs. I saw on the application there is a field for "willing to pay up to ____" and was curious as to approximate cost.


Mmm. Good question. I think that the answer is probably "how long is a piece of string?" since the search and duplication costs depend on the amount of time required to find relevant documents and the amount of pages to be copied/scanned.

However, I have read some (fairly old) FOIA correspondence where the letter enclosing relevant documents said that no fee had been charged because the costs involved had been less than (from memory) $20 or $25. I would be interested in learning whether the FBI and other agencies still have a lower limit beyond which they do not bother charging search or duplication fees. (It would then be possible to fill in the field for "willing to pay up to ______" with an amount equal to, or slightly below, that lower limit without being exposed to much risk of any charge being levied). I've been meaning to look into whether there currently is any such lower limit for the FBI or other agencies, but there is only so much time in the day...

If anyone does any searches regarding this lower limit issue (or happens to know the current position), I'd be very interested in hearing any information on this issue.

Edited to add: A few quick Google searches haven't yet found anything on the lower limit issue directly relating to the FBI's policies, but the Department of State document at the link below suggests I wasn't imagining things and this possibility is worth looking into in relation to the FBI to find its lower limit (if any) for FOIA fees:

www.state.gov...


No Charge For Requests Under $10.00

The Department will not charge fees to any requester, including commercial use requesters, if the
cost of collecting a fee would be equal to or greater than the fee itself.. This means that if
billable costs are less than $10.00, the requester is not charged.


There is also the possibility of seeking a waiver of FOIA fees. That may be worth a separate thread, since it would be useful to explore that possibility in the context of requests to other agencies as well...
edit on 7-2-2013 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)
edit on 7-2-2013 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 02:37 PM
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A thread of truly Epic proportions!
This is beyond amazing, Mr. Koi. I found the Airl interview nothing short of eye-opening and gained a very real sense of clarity on so many unanswered questions. Perhaps with the combined and growing consciousness of our imprisonment, we will degrade the barrier which holds us captive.

Many thanks Sir!



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by topdog81
A thread of truly Epic proportions!
This is beyond amazing, Mr. Koi. I found the Airl interview nothing short of eye-opening and gained a very real sense of clarity on so many unanswered questions. Perhaps with the combined and growing consciousness of our imprisonment, we will degrade the barrier which holds us captive.

Many thanks Sir!


Did you noticed how the Airl timeline jumped over the birth of Jesus Christ?
She did however give us some alarming stats on magnetic pole reversals here on Earth.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 03:19 PM
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I have officially moved this thread to my favorites bar at the top of my browser. I am still looking thru it and am amazed with all the information!

This is great! Thanks again for sharing this and taking the time to do something like this.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


An invite for the sheep. If the Government would have came out 30 years ago and said little grey men were real and they had proof, not many people would believe them because our Government lies to us on a daily basis.

Since they release BS info in small leaks like they have done it gets a lot more people to believe that UFOs are real, I should say little grey aliens.

The recent explosion of UFO sightings coincides with the dark evil that is gripping this world. Just as we have obviously had a massive advanced culture long before that was wiped out by the flood, to rid the world of the offspring of these evil beings we can now see the warning on the wall when the bible says the latter days will be the same as the days of Noah.

All the crazy light tricks in the sky are Demonic and the real UFO looking Craft are Government Craft as they have advanced at the same rate as our Cars lol.



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 04:20 PM
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Well posted. However, since the government is undoubtedly involved in a cover-up spanning seven decades with no end in sight, the documents they would release would surely be disinformation to serve their purpose, except for the small minority of documents that accidentally got released. Further, if people inside this cover-up wanted to release material to the public, they would have to do so in a way that would not include jail-time as an option. Therefore, these people would have to release the truth in bits and pieces as disinformation, leaving it to sharper members of the public to determine what is/was true and what is/was not. So, we end up in a convuluted sea of information of all kinds: real, dis and mis -information. In the end, the public does not know who and what to believe, what are lies and what are truths. Maybe that was the ultimate goal of the cover-up.

If we combine not only *documents* but eyewitness reports, deathbed confessions and other information gathered via investigations, there is something *real* to the UFO phenomenon. Sure, some/many are advanced human technology. However, evidence suggests that not all of the sightings are things man has created. Does this mean they are little green men from Mars piloting these craft? Not necessarily. The entire realm of possibility is just too much to even attempt to cover here. Suffice it to say that if you happen to be lucky (or unlucky) enough to see something unexplainable yourself... well, even J. Allen Hyneck (principle scientist/investigator for Project Blue Book) stepped away from the debunker camp.

Great post, though!



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 08:06 PM
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I have a feeling that this isn't news for you...
your old post



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 08:28 PM
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IsaacKoi
Thank you so much for this well thought out and organized thread its much appreciated..
All the information is going to take me time to read and research but you gave me a great starting point ..
This thread deserves many applause's from the Mods i do hope they see the time and love you put into this thread..peace,sugarcookie1 S&F



posted on Feb, 7 2013 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


Hello Isaac,

Having just arrived back into internet range after a long sea voyage, I was genuinely elated that I caught this thread. I was literally laughing by the end of the 2nd page as to the colossal nature of what you have presented here on ATS.

You are in a league of your own.

Congratulations on a wonderful thread, jamb packed with information.

A Star and flag simply does not express my thanks in the monumental effort you have put into this thread, which has now become my personal all-time favourite on ATS.

It is literally going to take me weeks to get through all of this - something that I am very much looking forward to.

You have truly set the bar to a new level.

Once again, thank-you very very much.





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