This is the Truth system

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I wouldn't say science treats them like trash. I would say science treats them for what they are: ideas, concepts and theories. Whether they are valid or not requires some basis in observation and a connection to reality. If this connection isn't found, then we are entering the world of abstraction, into the fringes of our language. More often than not, these ideas require an abuse of language and logic—double-entendre, metaphor, conjecture, and wide sweeping assumptions—which lead us no where but deeper into the mind of the ones who invented them. A study of grammar and language can show this to be true.

I think it's the other way around: those with a penchant for the mystical or religious have always been opposed to knowledge and sensual experience, because more often than not, these prove their hopes and desires to be false. So rather than face them head on and have an open mind, they decry 'science' and rationality to bolster their trust in their faith.

Scientific studies are concerned only with that which can be experienced sensually. It has no time for the thoughts and speculations founded only in people's minds until they can have a basis in reality. I think this outlook has saved a lot of time and has progressed mankind technologically and continues to do so. Religion had it's reign on the intellect. It was rightfully known as the Dark Ages.

I am one of those who are under the opinion that if you cannot point at it, shine a light on it, touch it, hear it or experience it through the senses, it cannot exist outside of the idea in which it lives. This doesn't mean I close my mind to possibilites and stick my fingers in my ears when someone speaks only in abstractions, but it closed off many intellectual dead-ends I may have wandered down before. And until I am proven wrong, this outlook has served its purpose well.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by galadofwarthethird

 

Its also true that you do not really have a point.

i could argue that life has no point so your reply is representative of life.

Yes you can. You can argue that all day and all night long if you so choose. However life has many points, one such point being death, a sort of end to the endless and pointless bickering of life and its many pointless points.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird

Yes you can. You can argue that all day and all night long if you so choose. However life has many points, one such point being death, a sort of end to the endless and pointless bickering of life and its many pointless points.

So if life is made of many pointless points then i will connect them how i see fit in my OP. Thanks for your understanding and support.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage

The truth is the reality of experience. Its not something that can be cateorised as good, bad, evil or moral it is only the reality of experience.

This is truly an eye-opening revelation. I sincerely thank you for simplifying such a complicated concept into a few words.

All sarcasm aside you are simply advocating a view called empiricism, where sense-experience determines what is true. This is not a new idea or a revelation at all...

I know what you mean by reality of experience but what you mean by it is not what the phrase actually means. What you mean by "reality" is our perception of reality built through our senses. Generally when you say "reality" on its own you are referring to an absolute reality, one which cannot be percieved by our senses.

I don't know what made you think you had stumbled on such a spectacular revelation, this debate about what constitutes truth has been going on for centuries now, and you have simply identified one of the sides. You present no evidence to support your claim that empicicism is the truth, you only enlighten us to the fact that you now know what it is. You don't even identify any other views on truth, one of which is Plato's view of Absolute Truths stemming from a Realm of Forms.

So please don't start threads acting like you have found an answer to a profound philosophical question when people much smarter than both of us have been debating this for centuries and have not yet found an answer.

If you think im telling truth Flag thread or if instead you think im false Star me. Lets see if weight of opinion stars versus flags.

Is this a joke? I am pretty sure there is a rule against asking for flags and stars. I really don't think this thread deserves a flag or a star I'm not going to reward this thread with a star just because I think it is pointless. Nice try.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
The Truth, its about time you and I had a adult talk about the Truth! I think its abit overdue and if you dont agree with me then you are crazier than a Redhead who thinks ascension was perioxiding her hair blonde.

The truth so lets have it what is the Truth?

The truth is the reality of experience. Its not something that can be cateorised as good, bad, evil or moral it is only the reality of experience.

For example if i see a an fire and say to you if i put my hand in fire will it burn my hand and cause me terrible injiry and pain. you answer yes then you are telling truth, you have accurately measured the hazard correctly. Conversely if its the middle of winter and i say will the fire make me more pleasuranle afrom cold if you say yes you are right again.

This is the truth system, and it can be applied to any and every situatiion we may encounter.
Sounds too simple to be true doesnt it? Well it is and the universe gave us that system so all creatures great and small can learn it.

So what has gone wrong and why havent you understood the truth that is plainly so evident to see in front of you.
Its because you have rejected it and ignored it, and supplanted a false truth paradigm in its place. Your belief system.

Is this sinking through? I will leave you to think about this as your perioxide fades away.

If you think im telling truth Flag thread or if instead you think im false Star me. Lets see if weight of opinion stars versus flags.

edit on 6-2-2013 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)

We are nothing but the sum total of our own individual life experiences. This has been my own belief for many years now so in essence, I agree with your initial statement; however, we differ in that I don't believe that everyone who has turned a blind eye to the truth has consciously and voluntarily done so of their own accord for what would make a person turn away from their own truth? Fear perhaps? How is fear generated - is it something that we naturally create within ourselves or is it something that's the culmination of outside influences? Perhaps it's generated differently for each person with varying degrees of internal and external influences.

I like your posts and the arguments you present, even though our opinions on some differ, I respect your passion of thought. With that said, I myself am not a peroxidized redhead and am very comfortable in my own beliefs, but I recognize and respect that not everyone is as confident or as unintimidated in looking beyond the surface as others are. I can only hope that with gentle coaxing (remember, you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar), perhaps a few individiuals will start the process of "enlightenment" (sorry, but I couldn't resist ). Conversely, I believe that there are a great many on this site who have sought out this site in order to present and debate their own unique perspectives and that not as many are blinded to the truth as your OP would suggest. It will be interesting to see what your challenge of stars vs flags yields. Since I both agree AND disagree, I will give you both .

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by AthlonSavage

 

When you place one hand in a backet of hot water, and the other in a bucket of cold water, and then put both the hot hand and the cold hand into a bucket of water at room temperature, the water will feel warm to the cold hand and cold to the hot hand.

So is the bucket of water at room temperature cold or hot?

Unfortunately I am late in joining this thread but I want to express my appreciation of this excellent, thoughtful post. Unfortunately, reading through the rest of the thread, it seemed to go over the heads of a lot of people.

Essentially you are saying, correct me if I'm wrong, temperature is an objective value, but how the temperature feels is completely subjective depending on the person and environment. The OP is arguing that how something feels is the absolute truth of the matter. You are saying this is a problem because our senses are misleading. In some situations, hot water can feel cold, and cold water can feel hot. If we accept the proposition that senses determine truth, you will have an infinite number of conflicting truths.

So is the bucket of water at room temperature cold or hot? Inherently it is neither, because "cold" and "hot" are words that describe extrinsic properties of water that can only be known through sense perception, while your question is asking for an absolute view of if the water is always hot or always cold.

Thank you for a beautiful post LesMisanthrope, you are a true philosopher.

reply to post by AthlonSavage

So if life is made of many pointless points then i will connect them how i see fit in my OP. Thanks for your understanding and support.

Yes that is correct and that is also another point of life, to connect many pointless points and see how they fit into the over all pointlessness of it all. Like making something out of nothing, or making nothing out of something.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


If a star goes supernova, destroying all possible life on the surrounding planets, is this right or wrong? Neither - it is what it is. When lions kill - is this right or wrong. Again, neither - it is what it is.

We humans made up this game of right and wrong, but it's just a game. Is abortion wrong? Were these mass shootings wrong? I say, no. But, hunting killers down and making them pay isn't wrong either. Life - it is what it is, and that's the truth. S&F

reply to post by Wang Tang


Please tells us something we dont already know because Trolling is no substitute even for repackaged wisdom.

reply to post by timidgal

Since I both agree AND disagree, I will give you both .

The most wise people will hold both beliefs as equal then if one ever gets provded irefutably wrong he/she can use the other belief system as the fall back.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
The Truth, its about time you and I had a adult talk about the Truth! I think its abit overdue and if you dont agree with me then you are crazier than a Redhead who thinks ascension was perioxiding her hair blonde.

So what has gone wrong and why havent you understood the truth that is plainly so evident to see in front of you.
Its because you have rejected it and ignored it, and supplanted a false truth paradigm in its place. Your belief system.

Is this sinking through? I will leave you to think about this as your perioxide fades away.

If you think im telling truth Flag thread or if instead you think im false Star me. Lets see if weight of opinion stars versus flags.

This is my problem with your post. All I am trying to explain is at this point in time we don't know how the universe works, and we can't claim to know how the universe works. People much smarter than us have tried to tackle this issue and gotten nowhere. I'm not against us trying to tackle this issue, but if you are going to do so, 1) present a reasonable argument and 2) have a little humility.

As Socrates once said, "true wisdom is realizing that you know nothing."

reply to post by Wang Tang

As Socrates once said, "true wisdom is realizing that you know nothing."

I can see you do talk the talk but dont walk the walk. If you did you wouldnt be here at this site at all because it would be pointless to deliver any messages of ideas of wisdom at all.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by timidgal

 

Since I both agree AND disagree, I will give you both .

The most wise people will hold both beliefs as equal then if one ever gets provded irefutably wrong he/she can use the other belief system as the fall back.

I could easily bite at this, but I won't. There are enough people here on the boards who know me and my beliefs; I'm neither wishy-washy nor apologetic and at all times, I'm open-minded and respectful of others' opinions. If I agree with some statements but not others, I candidly say so as I did above. If you want a lesson in TRUTH, I would recommend that you accept the truth that when you close your mind to others' perspectives, you're cheating no one but yourself and when you conduct yourself in a disrespectful manner to another member for the purpose of trying to evoke an air of superiority, it results in nothing but a loss of respect by other members.

reply to post by timidgal

There are enough people here on the boards who know me and my beliefs; I'm neither wishy-washy nor apologetic and at all times, I'm open-minded and respectful of others' opinions.

Timid gal i hardly ever see you post you must live on a opposite time cycle to me. Therefore i dont know you so i do not need to set a precedent of behaviour to make you happy. Although i can be nice so will say i enjoyed your posts they do demonstrate a intelligent mind.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage


I can see you do talk the talk but dont walk the walk. If you did you wouldnt be here at this site at all because it would be pointless to deliver any messages of ideas of wisdom at all.

Please explain what you mean by I do the talk but don't walk the walk. I'm afraid I don't have the mental capacity to undestand what your words mean. And please explain to me why I am here at this site because you seem to know that pretty well too. I will admit, I can't pinpoint an exact reason why I am at this site, so please help me learn more about myself.

And please give me evidence, explanations, specific examples, otherwise I'm afraid I won't be able to understand your sweeping claims which to me seem to have no base.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by timidgal

 

There are enough people here on the boards who know me and my beliefs; I'm neither wishy-washy nor apologetic and at all times, I'm open-minded and respectful of others' opinions.

Timid gal i hardly ever see you post you must live on a opposite time cycle to me. Therefore i dont know you so i do not need to set a precedent of behaviour to make you happy. Although i can be nice so will say i enjoyed your posts they do demonstrate a intelligent mind.

If I were to be so immature as to pen the first comment that comes to mind, it would surely evoke an admonishment from the moderators so I'll keep my initial response to myself. Unlike some others, I have a healthy respect for the rules that keep this forum an interesting venue for mostly respectful and open-minded people. I will, however, say that there is an acute difference between setting a precendent of behavior to make someone else happy (regardless of how often one might exchange ideas) and being a mature, respectful and intellegent conversationalist. When one starts to pout, it is most unbecoming and evident. I doubt you will see me participating in mutual future posts as I have no patience for people whose sole desire is to try to prove some projected air of superiority - whatever time difference we have is fine by me.

reply to post by timidgal

I doubt you will see me participating in mutual future posts as I have no patience for people whose sole desire is to try to prove some projected air of superiority - whatever time difference we have is fine by me.

So previous to today last time you posted in my thread was something like 6 months ago and now your saying it will be like a year this time. LOL.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


What's your point here? What are you trying to prove, besides your ability to be annoyingly pointless?

AthlonSavage I find it difficult to have an "adult" conversation with someone who has the spelling ability and maturity of a 3rd grader. I just read over your OP again and found that your spelling and grammar is just as bad as your argument. Look forward to seeing you around the forum.

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion


We give value to AT ALL