It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Total Stealth IP - The Answer

page: 3
0
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 05:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by kickassIf you mean that the MasterKey would be some sort of technology that enables the keeper of the key access to whichever site s/he wants I can say that your idea isn't really correct. There are too much variations on the Internet, too many brands of webb-servers (both Open and Closed source) etc.etc. for this idea even to be feasible.


Did all of those web-servers make preparations for Y2K? Perhaps the wording "Master Keys" would be better. In other words, one master key for each of the various servers that used the same software package to prepare for Y2K.


I assume that this is not the webserver logs but some sort of webhotel-provider statistics. You mention Java in your thread, but I am unsure whether your provider has a Java-applet on your page or if you are talking about servlets = Java that runs on a server?


You are losing me here cause I am definately not computer literate. I have a Web Stat service which keeps track of all the visitors to my site (not the one from geocites that comes from the site). I get the impression that they were refering to the Java set up in my account with them, but am not sure about this.


Could you provide me with your URL, either here or in a PM to me so I can take a look myself at your page? If possible, also provide me with URLs to the "other" sites.


My URL is in my profile and I don't think I will give you the URL to the sites I am refering to for various reasons, one of which is that you will not believe me if I did.


Perhaps they take the texts from somewhere else, which in this case probably would be your own computer - which I assume is the machine on which you write your texts before uploading them to the web-server?


I don't own a computer but use public computers at two separate libraries.


You may have a RAT (Remote Access Trojan) or similar on your own box that captures keystrokes, intercept your mail etc. I know of several of these trojans that is quite "evil", killing off your anti-virus and your personal firewalls in memory (but pretending they still are in operation since the icons in the statusbar still shows them running).


This may be however this would not explain the things that I have seen on other sites. Further this would implie several different 'entities' doing this, or that they are sharing the information among themselvs...




posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 05:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by rktspc
Far fetched idea:

What are the possiblities of a hacker entering in the system and deleting any reference to themselves, including the IP's from the web access log?

Have you checked for any root kits? I know it's not always possible to tell


I don't even know what one of those is. I use a public computer at a local library.

And, I know it is a far fetched idea, but this is not a normal hacker...



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 07:08 PM
link   
That would be like asking the post office can you deliver this letter without an address - the answer is no because they don't know where to deliver the letter.

As has been explained you can use a middle man etc, but you always leave a trace. You could get pretty elaborate like you see in spy movies connecting one system to another and another. Another words leaving someone elses trace and so on.

However if your just interested in obtaining information without leaving a trace of what type of information you were obtaining, there is an old way to do such a thing & it's called usenet. You still have to connect to a newserver, and you could download the entire content of the servers if you had enough space & then delete everything you were not interested in. Thus nobody would know what you were after unless they were monitoring your computer because the array of information is almost endless you can't be tagged for going to a specific type of site - such as here. Sort of like taking a snapshot on the entire internet & then only going to sites you wish to see in stealth because it all resides on your domain.



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 06:53 AM
link   
Well, the mystery is solved and it took me about 10 minutes to figure it out once I got the URLs...

To be able to "see" and intercept HTTP-requests I used the OpenSource software "Webscarab" from sourceforge.net...

I assume that you use www.statcounter.com. (Actually I tracked traffic to them when I opened your page so this question is quite retorical...*LoL*)

When you signed up you probably got a unique "user-number" from them.
In your case this is probably 315305 as can be seen in the source of your page.

What the code they gave you to insert in your pages basically does is that it uses 2 files, one of them is a Javascript file called "counter.js" that downloads to the users browser and populates some variables:

* the users screenresolution
* the referrer, ie what page the user "surfed in from"
* the page that the user have called for (which could be any given page on your site)
* the title of that page and
* some random unique numbers using the Math.random() function.

After this - which is all handled locally in the users' browser! - the variables are given to the c2.statcounter.com/t.php web-serverfile as
parameters.

After this the parameters are probably gathered for your viewing pleasure...

I tried to manipulate the variables and was surfing in from the page KickassSaysHi, but I am unsure whether statcounter have some sort of sanitychecking or not, so maybe you won't see this.

What your "invisible viewer" does is probably to just disable Javascript in their browser, thus defeating your tracking.

As I said, no magic, no conspiration, just a lousy implementation by www.statcounter.com

// kickass




[edit on 4-11-2004 by kickass]



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 03:12 PM
link   
[edit on 4-11-2004 by outsider]



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 04:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by kickass

What your "invisible viewer" does is probably to just disable Javascript in their browser, thus defeating your tracking.

As I said, no magic, no conspiration, just a lousy implementation by www.statcounter.com

// kickass


Actually, you haven't solved anything cause I saw your signiature. Further, the question about turning off Java on their own browser I don't believe applies. It is refering to the Java at statcounter, which they checked for me and stated that it is on and the 'hit' will register.

So, whoever it is has alittle bit more knowledge or technology than your attempt...




[edit on 4-11-2004 by kickass]



posted on Nov, 5 2004 @ 01:23 AM
link   
OOOkkkkkeyyy...

Actually David - for that is your name right? - I start to get bored of you...

First of all, I did the KickAssSaysHi before I turned off Javascript, just to see whether statcounter did sanitychecking or not.

Apparently they don't so I am free to input whatever page I want into the logs to fool you.

Actually, I think that the reason you think about this uberhacker is that you are not so knowledgeable yourself and you want this to be something else than a lousy implementation of tracking software.

I mean - come on! - you speak about MasterKeys and connect them to Y2k updates of webb-software, you speak about "invisible viewers" that I have proved beyond doubt is no mystery and yet you persist that this is a conspiracy.

Trust me, I looked through the Statcounter Javascript-code, looked behind the browser to check the HTTP requests your page does and it is as I say, belive me.

Btw, it seems that we don't even speak the same languages here...Java and Javascript are 2 different things and Javascript is used to track visitors - or more correctly - to populate variables to input to the tracking page on statcounters website, as I said in my previous post.
It has nothing to do with Java on Statcounters website. They use a .php-page to harvest the variables from the Javascript-code.

If you don't believe me, it's your loss.

Maybe you should read up a little of how computer and networks really work...

For me the case is closed.

// k



[edit on 5-11-2004 by kickass]

[edit on 5-11-2004 by kickass]



posted on Nov, 5 2004 @ 03:42 AM
link   
The only possible way to not leave a trace as to where you have been on the internet would to hack your isp's gateway router and all other routers along the path to your chosen server and delete the log files. Even then the FBI has a system called carnivore attached to every ISP gateway that makes a carbon copy of all the network traffic that goes on the network. So even if you were successful in hacking your ISP you would still be caught. Really nowadays the only real way to do this would be to forge your MAC address and hi-jack someone's wireless network. That would insure an anonymous connection. I would suggest anyone interested in this topic research IP Masquerading..Not such an easy thing to d



posted on Nov, 5 2004 @ 01:41 PM
link   
Sounds like paranoid stealth IP, i dont get any facts where to even base such technology to exist in theory, far as i know computers always leave the trace as they "talk" with each others. Also telephone companys can collect logs and if data is transfered it can be seen.
Only option would be some sort of program based that eliminates your traces but dunno how it would effect eventually, leaving it own traces
hard to walk backwards on phoneline.



posted on Nov, 5 2004 @ 01:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by DjOsiris
The only possible way to not leave a trace as to where you have been on the internet would to hack your isp's gateway router and all other routers along the path to your chosen server and delete the log files. Even then the FBI has a system called carnivore attached to every ISP gateway that makes a carbon copy of all the network traffic that goes on the network. So even if you were successful in hacking your ISP you would still be caught. Really nowadays the only real way to do this would be to forge your MAC address and hi-jack someone's wireless network. That would insure an anonymous connection. I would suggest anyone interested in this topic research IP Masquerading..Not such an easy thing to d


Currently as wireless networks are new, its been tested that with laptop you can easily use wireless private or even sometimes corporate networks cause people dont realise the fact that connection is shared on that current radius, so it comes that you could do your dirty work from laptop on park near some un protected wireless LAN and then leave without a signifant trace, only if you were observer at current moment tracing you at your current spot. The spotting would be imposible after doing your stuff just remove W-lan card or what ever you use. That would only make you vurnable to hardware tracing afterwards if you contact again to network with same hardware, in fact abusing corporate W-Lan's been used for corporate spying. drive car next to building and get in the network, possible without firewalls and extra protections.



posted on Nov, 5 2004 @ 07:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by slick
Here's an idea, but this is completely hypothetical and probably makes no sense at all (computing isn't my first area of expertise:p)

From what i've assertained from various information on the government, the government is currently scanning for "hot phrases/files" in emails, over the web etc like "terrorist kill president" or whatever, and intercepting information relating to this. When they intercept this information, can the person sending and receiving this information tell its been intercepted, and is there any trace of them doing this?

If not, wouldnt there (theoretically) be some way to set up a system whereby you enter what information you are wanting from the internet and use the packets that other people are sending and receiving to get it? Wouldn't that be more or less cloaked?



There are several possibilities.

First of all, your conversations dont go straight to the other person. Your ISP gets your packets and sends them where they go, right? This means that the government could get your ISP to send them your packets as well, and you'd never know. The ISP would know, but there are two possibilities here: 1. the ISP lets them do it. 2. The government guys just know how to run circles around security pros because they actually get -paid- to be good at hacking.
Next possibility (which can be incorporated into the first one) the government may have really creative techniques which marketed security products aren't allowed to defend against, so they can get it from your computer or your ISP without anyone knowing.

Another possibility still, like I mentioned earlier, they could be tapping phonelines, as an offshoot of "carnivore" (if that exists- i'm not familiar with it really, but i've heard of it). If the government actually has set up a network of listening posts which monitor and analyze all transmissions over phone lines, then they can also catch your packets without having to send a request for info. Remember, as long as you wait for the packet to come your way, you dont have to send any packet of your own.



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 11:29 AM
link   
I think I have answered my own question.

Total Stealth IP, as I defined the perimeters on this thread, occurs millions of times every day on the internet.

Its called Site Indexing.

There are literally thousands of servers that 'crawl' websites every day, that 'hit' every page on the site, and yet they leave absolutely no trace - either with my Yahoo File Manager account with Geocites or with Statcounter which is my IP Tracking server.

This - as far as I can tell - is Total Stealth IP...

Edit - I have asked how this is possible to three services and will post the reply here when I get it.

Until then, any comments on how this is accomplished?



[edit on 10/28/04 by jesterbr549]



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 05:26 PM
link   
Here is the first answer I got on my question from Statcounter my IP Tracker Service



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 05:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by jesterbr549 Its called Site Indexing.
Or spidering. And spiders do leave all typical information in traffic logs. However, because of their popularity, many servers (especially ISP's offering hosting service) disable logging of spider IP's to maintain smaller log files. Some time ago, I did that on the ATS server, as well as disabled the logging of serving graphic files. "Stealth IP", as you're looking for, is impossible.



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 06:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by jesterbr549
Its called Site Indexing.


Or spidering. And spiders do leave all typical information in traffic logs. However, because of their popularity, many servers (especially ISP's offering hosting service) disable logging of spider IP's to maintain smaller log files. Some time ago, I did that on the ATS server, as well as disabled the logging of serving graphic files.

"Stealth IP", as you're looking for, is impossible.


Actually, as I said, as it was described in this thread it is possible. I wasn't looking for a way to total stealth, I was trying to find out why certain IP's were not registering.

And, I still don't have the answer for statcounter is not registering the indexing of my web site preformed by either google, master.com or others servers out that that are indexing the site - and I would like to know why?


SMR

posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 06:28 PM
link   
Just trying to help out here.
Maybe some reading at SHIELDS UP! could give you answers you seek.
I for one would love to surf the net in 'invisible' mode,but it is not going to happen.You have to have information sent back to you and the only way to do that is by your IP,plain and simple.

Your ShieldsUP! site easily sees my computer's IP address. Though I trust you, I figure that anyone else can see anything that you can. So how can I hide my IP address while I'm on the web?

The accessibility of your machine's IP address does not, in and of itself, represent any real security risk. In order for you to use the Internet at all, information must be able to find its way back to your computer. This requires a two-way path between your computer and remote machines. Your machine's unique IP address is the way data finds its way back to you. It's true that this necessarily creates some degree of security vulnerability, but only as much as is absolutely required for any sort of "connection" to remote resources on the Internet. The best thing to do is to be concerned and responsible about your machine's security. Follow the steps outlined on this site and keep an eye on the security-related software I develop in the future. I'm working on solution to these problems.



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 06:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by jesterbr549 And, I still don't have the answer for statcounter is not registering the indexing of my web site preformed by either google, master.com or others servers out that that are indexing the site - and I would like to know why?
The simple answer... it's programmed not to count them.



posted on Nov, 6 2004 @ 10:38 PM
link   
It is possible to do certain things but exactly how it fits in with what you're asking I'm not 100% sure. Just as many others here have said, a 'Totally Stealth IP' on an IP based network is almost completely useless, even if possible. Yet, there are a couple ideas about this, which I'll try and explain in easy to understand ways. While this will be far from a full and complete look into IP networking, I hope it is informative enough to get you thinking in some creative directions!!

#1: For IP traffic to 'Hop' through the Internet the 'Packets' of data are passed between Routers. The Routers know where to pass the data based upon 'Packet Headers' which act in a similar way as an address & zip work for mail. Here is an IP Packet:

**Notice**
Source Address—Specifies the sending node.
Destination Address—Specifies the receiving node.

If for some reason the Packet has an illegal address (or no address I guess in this case) then that packet is dropped since the Router doesn't know what else to do with it. Private addresses, like 10.X.X.X or 192.168.X.X, also will not be passed between Public Internet Routers since there are many, many private networks using those same address internally. **On the Public side every address must be unique for each node.

Other address include: 127.X.X.X which is the Local Machine Loopback to send messages to itself. 255.255.255.255 is a Broadcast which goes to everyone.

# 2: Packet Creation, IP Spoofing & Raw Sockets are however a few ways to cause some trouble and/or traverse a network in a low level maintenance kind of way. For example:

Not long ago there was a clever method of attack using IP Spoofing to launch a Denial of Service(DoS) against certain Web Servers. The clever part was that unlike other traditional methods this one tricked the actual traffic control hardware of the Internet into being the Bad Guys. Basically, different machines all over the net were set to send out specific packets all at the same time. These packets had been created with very specific Source & Destination IP address. The Source address was created to be the same address from all of them while the Destination was created to be invalid. The Source address was purposely set as the intended Target.

So what happened is that the Routers, who were in fact doing what they were supposed to do, recognized the bad Dest., dropped the packet and sent a control message back to the Source like it is supposed to do. However, what the Routers didn't realize is that the Source was actually the Target and all at the same time Routers from all over the world were sending those error control messages to that one address. That server was flooded by the traffic and was silenced.

Now, Raw Sockets are something a bit different and possibly more of what you were looking for as far as being Totally Stealth. Look at the table below:

IP traffic routing which happens at the Network Layer(3) is what is being used for IP addressing. However, there is also a Lower Level, Link Layer (2), which is also happening. Direct Socket access at this level is sometimes refered to as 'Raw Sockets'. Access at this level can, depending on certain things which I'm not going to get into, allow for communication to take place while bypassing certian higher IP functions. Transfer of Data at this level uses a 'Point to Point' Socket connection and Hardware Addressing.
**For a more complete but still comprehendable explaination you may want to check out:
What are "Sockets"? And why are some of them "Raw"? grc.com...

So, to wrap this up before it gets any longer, for those who actually read this far, the answer IMO to the Totally Stealth IP question is neither a solid Yes or No. Yes it is possible to communicate using methods other than those typically used which in many ways provide Stealthy or Confusing tracks, but even then there are still techniques that can be used to flush out those who use them. The truth is, as long as you choose to be 'Networking and Communicating with Others' there will never be Total Security/Invisibility/etc. It's a 'Community' and as such each individual that makes up the whole is at some point accounted for. If that is simply unacceptable to you then it may be a 'Sign' that you should Unplug, Power Off & Read a Book in some peaceful sanctuary of your choosing.



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 03:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by jesterbr549
And, I still don't have the answer for statcounter is not registering the indexing of my web site preformed by either google, master.com or others servers out that that are indexing the site - and I would like to know why?

The simple answer... it's programmed not to count them.


Well, that answer is not as simple as it sounds according to the letter from Statcounter who said it should register and it is not.

More to come from Master.com and Yahoo...



posted on Nov, 7 2004 @ 03:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by mOjOm

I hope it is informative enough to get you thinking in some creative directions!


The only 'creative direction' I am concerned with is how several IP's are not registering on my web site when they should be.


Yes it is possible to communicate using methods other than those typically used which in many ways provide Stealthy or Confusing tracks


You bet there is...


each individual that makes up the whole is at some point accounted for.


Some more than others, huh?


If that is simply unacceptable to you then it may be a 'Sign' that you should Unplug, Power Off & Read a Book in some peaceful sanctuary of your choosing.


Having my web site hacked by a bunch of spooks is not acceptable and, if it is to you, than you definately need to unplug and follow your own advice cause, you all are certainly not part of the solution, but part of the problem...




top topics



 
0
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join