It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Billy Meier, Debunking, Defending, whichever....

page: 7
0
<< 4  5  6    8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 01:49 PM
link   
Easiest way to do this...





posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 05:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by Gazrok
Easiest way to do this...



I think this photo wouldnt resist any kind of analysis. Of course, in the case, this is really a Meier photo.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 07:57 PM
link   
I am going to call upon the argument of plausible deniability and state that the photograph alone does not prove Meier is hoaxing it, as hard as it to believe, perhaps this is an alien human with a laser weapon. The operative word there is "alien"

Then again, an advanced alien race, cannot see it is not very efficient to carry such a large bulky weapon. It's very interesting that this gun is designed exactly like the human one, even the trigger is in the same place.

As for the golden foil suit. Are there no alien fashion designers or something?

The whole thing reeks of 70's science fiction props. I think Meier did not anticipate later they would become more refined.

However, as I said before, it looks so hopelessly like a child's toy, and the suit looks hopelessly like tin-foil, that the very look of it, is making me cringe and now seriously question if Meier is hoaxing it. I will not even begin on the so called dinosaur picture, I can't even tell where the dinosaur begins or ends, it's looks more like a badly focussed tree.

Considering our investigation on Meier, and my own discussion with his camp, which has been lacking, especially in regards to the "Asket and Nera" pictures, which are apparently look-alikes of an extraterrestrial human race, more than 400 light years away, in a sister universe. It would be an understatement if I said, I do not have much conficence in Meier anymore. Now, I would like to see what Horn and our missing friend, Aurelius, would like to say in these regards.

Now if Meier is really hoaxing it, which now seems to be a valid possibility, considering the support he has got from so many researchers, scientists and labs and US officials. Could it be, this is a deliberate hoax designed by the government, to obviously obfuscate the UFO matter and distract us from the true ET and UFO phenomena.

[edit on 2-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 07:31 AM
link   
Just heard back from Mr. Horn on the photos...


From : Michael michael@theyfly.com
Sent : Friday, December 3, 2004 2:32 AM
To : gazrok@hotmail.com
Subject : Re: Greeting Mr. Horn. Are these authentic Meier photos?

| | | Inbox


Hi Gazrok,

The photos you refer to are said to be of the weapon loaned to Meier on two occasions and which he used to put a hole in an apple tree on the property. The tree (and hole) are still there. Meier was told that the weapon was, for the ETs, a 600 year old antique model.

Best,

MH
*********************************************************
Mr. Horn,

Ive been fascinated with the Billy Meier case for quite some time. Recently I came across these pictures supporting the encounter notes in which Billy was given a laser gun and allowed to photograph. As I havent seen these on the site or in some of the books I have, I was wondering if you could vouch for their authenticity?


www.universe-people.com...

www.universe-people.com...

www.universe-people.com...

Thank you,
Gazrok


[edit on 3-12-2004 by Gazrok]


Could it be, this is a deliberate hoax designed by the government, to obviously obfuscate the UFO matter and distract us from the true ET and UFO phenomena.


I think it more plausible that instead it's just believers who want to believe so badly, that they latch on to anyone who can show a clear photo, even if hoaxed. The fact is, there is plenty of evidence available out there to believe, without tainting the field by latching on to such charlatans.... Trust me, I'd LOVE to have believed Meier, but there were just WAY too many red flags. How the Disclosure Project is ignoring these flags, is totally beyond me... To date, pretty much every "contactee" who reports to have numerous positive ongoing UFO encounters, photos, and messages ends up in overwhelming evidence pointing to fraud. THAT is why I am so skeptical of this particular variety of UFO accounts....and it seems that skepticism is well founded in Billy's case....

[edit on 3-12-2004 by Gazrok]



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 03:34 PM
link   
This is a copy and paste of the same reply I made at Meiers forum:


Yes, as it is "alien" weapon, there is no reference point on what an "alien" weapon should look like. However given what it is, it is more likely that it is something mundane.

1. The laser weapon is typical of 70's science fiction props, which is the decade this photograph is from.

2. The laser weapon is large, bulky and clumsy, which strikes me as inefficient for a 50,000 year old advanced alien race. As we know that technology is refined and miniturized quite rapidly. I cannot possibly understand how an alien race would retain something like this. At the very least I would expect a tiny phaser like device.

3. The actual gun itself looks almost exactly like a human gun. It has a nozzle, a trigger, and a handle, all exactly in the same places. There is nothing alien about it. It looks like a shoddy toy gun, that would make no child proud today.

4. It pales in comparison to modern science fiction phaser devices. There is good reason to believe such phaser devices are within the reach of modern science. That would be embarrassing for a 50,000 year old alien race to be beaten by modern apes.

Now onto the spacesuit, or rather tin-foil suit:

1. It is again typical of 70's science fiction props, and the kind of costumes aliens would be depicted as wearing. One can also glimpse the hair style of "Alena" and again it is very typical 70's, curly/wavy.

2. It strikes me as odd that an advanced alien race would have no sense of aesthetics, and wear something so clumsy, and full of creases, as you would expect to form in a til-foil suit. I really must ask: but are there no alien fashion designers?

Then I must finally consider other such extraordinary claims of Meiers's photographs of aliens, dinosaurs, future cars, and bizarre UFO's. Again, the same characteristics repeat:

1. It is typical of 70's science fiction props, decor and fashion.
2. It is shoddy, antiquated, clumsy looking, and frankly laughable at times. To say this politely, none of it is convincing.

Finally, the "Asket and Nera" pictures are an admitted hoax. What further takes it into absurdity, is Meiers post-claims of Asket and Nara, crew members of an alien star ship, from 400+ light years away, in a sister universe, being look-alikes of two human show girls. That he only notices AFTER the skeptics point it out for him.

Finally, there is the fact that none of his so called prophecies have been published prior to the unfolding of events. I am glad that I followed my intutiion and researched this, as I almost took it for granted that they were.

There is the absurdity of conveniance, that all bobbing, swaying and pendular movements of the ET UFO's in his 8mm film segments, are in fact deliberately introduced, so that his case is not proven, that was revealed to him by the Pleaidians in his 251st contact AFTER the skeptics pointed it out for him. Yet, ridicuously contradicted by the Pleaidians motive: for Meier to produce the clearet pictures ever taken of UFO's.

I have now also discovered that a lot of the spirituality Meier teaches, is directly derived from a lot of Hindu and Buddhist teachings. In fact one of the symbol he uses is a stylized version of the Hindu AUM. So even the spiritual teachings do not suggest alien knowledge.

Finally, considering the lesser credidble testimonial evidence against Meier, which is admittedly dubious, but the nonetheless cannot be ignored. His own wife has openly admitted he's hoaxing it. There are also accounts of some investigators who have found him with model UFO's.

I started out with a favourable impression of Meier, fairly confident in Meier, but that was partially because I had little knowledge of the intracacies and background of this case. I was pretty new to Meier. I am a very objective and honest person, and my beliefs are based on the observable evidence for a phenomena, and change according to this. From what I have observed from the case of Meier to date, it is strongly suggesting that Meier is faking it.

What I find disturbing, given the evidence that points to Meier faking this, how could an entire establishment of accomplished personalities in US military, ufology, and experts, support him. Are they involved in some kind of systematic and official hoax?

I think you people are being duped by Meier, and while I can understand the desire to believe, I implore you not to do this at the expense of your intelligence. There are far better and credible cases out there on the UFO phenomena, and far more accompished spiritual schools and traditions. Do not get taken for a ride by a cult leader and hoaxer, who wants to only maintain his power base and take your hard earned money.

Finally, having said the above. I would like to say, that I have pointed out above, that my beliefs are based on the observable phenomena, and change according to it. If any more evidence is forthcoming that can counter-balance the evidence against him, I will gladly reconsider. However, for now, I am concluding - HOAX !





This was a great investigation topic, and we have together concluded, Meier is hoaxing it(I am not sure about Terra) As I said initially, I have no emotional investment, nor a belief in Meiers case, all I wanted to know was the truth.

Now even though I was under the wrong impressions initially, I fully stand by them, as given the evidence and arguments for the negative, at the time were not strong enough. I also fully stand by my skepticism for the origin of the laser gun photographs, as there was no evidence to prove they were Meiers, further they were outsourced from a very dodgy site, that got the caption wrong(it also turns out the year was wrong too; it's suppose to be 1978, not 1988)

I think the techniques we have employed in topic should be used as a model to investigate anything pertaining to UFO/ET. The main lessons we can learn from this topic:

1. Do not disbelieve, without sufficient evidence for the negative
2. Do not believe, without sufficient evidence for the positive
3. Do not accept speculation, whethers yours, or anothers, unless compelling, and corroborated with evidence.
4. Research as thorougly as possible and consult as many sources as possible.
5. Question and verify everything, even if it seems obvious on a surface level - e.g. Meiers laser photographs
6. Weigh the evidence FOR and AGAINST with exactly the same standards
7. Do not limit yourself with any investigative methods, use as many as methods as you can, and ultimately let your intuition and intelligence guide you.
8. Approach every case with an open mind, and let the desire to discover the truth, be your impetus. Any predispositions are unhealthy and will only corrupt your thinking.
9. Do not make emotional investments, unless you are absolutely sure, that it is the truth, based on the evidence. This will only cloud the intellectual process.
10. Compare everything to other cases; apples to apples and orange to oanges, and then anaylse the differences and similarities.
11. Do not jump to conclusions. Always leave a margin for error. You are only human.
12. This is the most important of any group investigation. The BS factor. When you see BS, identify it, and refuse to pursue further discussion, unless the BS is stopped.

E.g. A child could reproduce Billy Meiers photograps. That is BS untill the claimant can demonstrate it.

E.g. David Icke is a charlatan, lier, fraud. That is BS untill the claimant can demonstrate and support their arguments with evidence.

We need strict standards of intellectual discussion like these 12 points I have outlined, if we really want to find the truth of any case. Otherwise we end up going in infinite circles. For the first time, on this forum, I have seen us unanimously arrive at the same conclusion, and let it be known, that given the overwhelming evidence against Meier. We can finally prove, with a shadow of doubt, mind you, that:

BILLY MEIER IS NOT IN CONTACT WITH AN ALIEN RACE CALLED THE PLEAIDIANS AND HAS FAKED EVERYTHING TO DATE


Who shall we do next?


[edit on 3-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 12:07 AM
link   
Oh, and another point, Gazrock had briefly mentioned............

All this nonsense about Billy Meier being incapable of pulling off a hoax and doing all the work on his hoax, because he has only one arm, is just that, nonsense.

Rick Allen of Def Leppard only has one arm, and he sucessfully plays drums, has been doing so for 20 years with no problems.

Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles, though blind, have both established themselves as gods in soul and blues music.

Stephen Hawking, tho paralyzed head to toe, is still he smartest guy alive.

Franklin D. Roosevelt had polio, but managed to downplay it and run the country through hard times.

If the above can still manage their respective careers, despite their physical limitations, and do their jobs above and beyond what "normal" people can, the Billy Meiers one arm does not in anyway prevent him from pulling off a hoax.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 02:48 AM
link   
Hi Indigo_Child,

Quite an energetic post and subsequent conclusions.I already mentioned to Gazrok that the Meier case has more controversy than all of the other cases put together, I wasn't kidding.Still, I'm afraid it's not that easy, atleast for me, to brush off the entire case as a hoax.Did Meier fake some of his photographs? Mostlikely...yes. On the other hand it's almost 'normal' that a contactees story gets warped out of proportions in every way imaginable.Quite frankly, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle, between what Meier claims and what the sceptics claim.

Yes I detected some time ago that some photographs were mostlikely fakes.There are plenty of those.The 'Asket&Nera' pics, the San Francisco - GEO magazine pic.Meier's time travelling pics of dinosaurs and the recently discussed 'ray-gun' pics are also heavily contested.There's even more.One alleged pic of a Plejaren mothership is highly similar to a NASA illustration of Voyager.One alleged pic taken inside the mothership of a piece of machinery turned out to be an Earthly oscillograph.Another one of Meier's pic taken on the surface of Venus is also rumored to be almost indentical to what has been displayed in the astronomical books, with the exception that those pics were taken with a special UV filter.Questionable photographs? Yes, plenty of those.What also doesn't help the Meier case is the absense of negatives.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 03:33 AM
link   

I already mentioned to Gazrok that the Meier case has more controversy than all of the other cases put together, I wasn't kidding.Still, I'm afraid it's not that easy, atleast for me, to brush off the entire case as a hoax.Did Meier fake some of his photographs? Mostlikely...yes. On the other hand it's almost 'normal' that a contactees story gets warped out of proportions in every way imaginable.Quite frankly, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle, between what Meier claims and what the sceptics claim.


Terra, I haven't stopped pursing this case, even after concluding it to be most likely a hoax. It's actually got wose, and become stupid beyond belief: the following is what is hoaxed:

1. Asket and Nera pictures: claimed to be alien humans
2. Dinosaur pictures: claimed to be taken in a time travel mission, back to the age of the dinosaurs.
3. Alena and the ray-gun: claimed to be an alien human carrying a 600 year old relic
4. The wedding cake UFO: Claimed to be a special Pleaidian ship
5. The San franciso Earthquake pictures: Claimed to be taken in a time travel mission to the future
6. The Venus picture: Claimed to be taken from onboard a beamship
7. The mothership: Claimed to be a Pleadian mothership near Earth orbit(?)

The following are most definitely lies told by Meier:

1. He went back in time and was selected by Jesus to become his disciple. He came back out of the fear of being crucified.
2. He photographed the eye of God. He only photographed one eye, because he claimed the other was closed!

All his Pleadian spirituality is a much stylized version of Hindu and Buddhist traditions. As we have seen, he even uses Hindu symbols.

It also follows that given all the above are fake, that the contacts where the supposed Pleadians are talking to him, are also fabricated fakes. This meaning, there is no Pleaidian race in contact with him.

His wife has exposed in an interview, how Meier hoaxed the photographs. I normally take such testimonials, especially when it is based on personal issues, with a pinch of salt. However, given that every other bit of evidence is crying hoax. This should add the icing of the cake:

his is the why his former wife (about to be divorced) now has
decided to break her silence after twenty years of being together with
Billy Meier and of helping to lie to countless people. In an exclusive
interview with Luc Buergin, for the first time ever she admitted that
the alledged contact experiences of Billy Meier

*are entirely fictitious*.

In the seventies she had seen negatives she prevented from being burnt
where she easily could see (UFO)models. In the interview she explains
that the lid of a plastic vat was used as an "UFO". In the UFO-KURIER
there is a photograph of such a lid on page 15.

Mrs. Meier reported that, for example, in 1995 the Swiss newspaper
'Neue Zuericher Zeitung' report about Billy Meier and presented a
photograph with Billy Meier in front of a plant which was put in such
a lid.

Some of Meier's "mothership's" were the outdoor lamps at their house.
Mrs. Meier reports of a woman, Mrs. G., who arrived one day at he
Meier's home. Her hair style looked like the one of the female
"Extraterrestrial" who was later presented on a photograph. That day,
all the others were told to go away for some time. For the golden
coloured suit of Mrs. G. Billy Meier used a foil which one can buy in
every Swiss warehouse.


Finally, to seal the coffin of Billy Meier tightly shut, have a look at this past:

1. He was thrown in jail on the charges of thievery
2. He was a snake charmer of an Indian village
3. He was involved in exposing a drug-trafficking affair in Turkey, the reward money he used to go to Switzerland.

This guy is a total and complete fraud, that has made a joke of ufology. I think the only truth you may find in his case, that he is involved in an elaborate shadow government sponsored hoax, to make a complete joke of any serious research into UFO's..

And I hate to be the harbinger of bad news, but I have a suspicion now, that the disclosure project could be the same, and any moment later, it is going to be exposed as hoax, and this will forever destroy ufology. I hope my suspicions are just pessimism, but given that the disclosure project supports Meier, I'm get a feeling it is involved in some form of government sponsored hoax.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 05:04 AM
link   
Hi Indigo_Child,

Yes, I've read the reports you list in your previous post.Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Billy Meier, but I am inclined to defend ufology and the contactee phenomena.I'm aware of many transgressions of the Meier case and Billy Meier himself.You already found a few items which don't exactly vouch for Billy Meier's character, you even missed a few such as the many lawsuits (some by former members) and the involuntary stay at the 'funny farm' and other 'foreign excursions'.I don't wish to play it this way.Years ago I could have easily whacked those 'tidbits' of information around the heads of Meier supporters yet I see no reason to hit below the belt.
What basicly broke the camels back for me was when I read Meier's comments towards other people in ufology.Gazrok's comment - "shutting out the competition", although quickly formulated, is sadly very correct.For a highly evolved spirit which Meier allegedly is, he and his contacts have a habit of discrediting other people and slamming them into the ground.This is not the behavior of a genuine contactee, atleast not in my book.I concluded years ago that he's on a quest for dominance.

You might wonder why I still maintain a certain position to his case.That's partially influenced by the fact that some people will exclusively take the negative elements and not only start to debunk the Meier case but also ufology and the contactee phenomena as a whole.From research and first hand experience, I know better.In other words I'm also trying to prevent a 'witchhunt'.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 05:49 AM
link   

You might wonder why I still maintain a certain position to his case.That's partially influenced by the fact that some people will exclusively take the negative elements and not only start to debunk the Meier case but also ufology and the contactee phenomena as a whole.


You are not exactly helping your cause for contactee cases, by clinging onto Meier. I treat everything on a case by case basis. I do not generalize. Which contactee cases do you think are credible?

I only know of two, and that is Meier and Nancy Leider, and they are both fakes. There is also Adrian, and the less said about him the better.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 07:35 AM
link   

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

You might wonder why I still maintain a certain position to his case.That's partially influenced by the fact that some people will exclusively take the negative elements and not only start to debunk the Meier case but also ufology and the contactee phenomena as a whole.


You are not exactly helping your cause for contactee cases, by clinging onto Meier. I treat everything on a case by case basis. I do not generalize. Which contactee cases do you think are credible?

I only know of two, and that is Meier and Nancy Leider, and they are both fakes. There is also Adrian, and the less said about him the better.


What I basicly do is take the positive and negative elements of a contactee case.I do that equally, not selectively.While I don't like Meier and some of the things he said, I'm not going to throw my principles overboard because of that.Yes, some photographs are mostlikely faked but if you want to be a thorough and professional debunker you have disproof the whole lot which is harder than you might think.Some 70 people have testified to unusual circumstances involving Billy Meier.Some even stated that they saw the ships Meier photographed.While Meier's ex-wife retracted her support, his son did not and still openly supports his father.

Me personally I find the contactee cases of George Adamski and Howard Menger very intriquing.Sure, controversy is there and if you aim your sights on that than that's what'll greatly influence your conclusion.Adamski&Menger also had support by eyewitnesses, even family members.Now what kind of person would I be if I allow the eyewitness testimonies as valid for the Adamski case, but not for the Meier case? I would be a biased hypocrite.That's not what I intend to do, I'm gonna play it fair.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 01:01 PM
link   

That's partially influenced by the fact that some people will exclusively take the negative elements and not only start to debunk the Meier case but also ufology and the contactee phenomena as a whole


This is EXACTLY why such charlatans need to be exposed quickly, as it's these whackos, who are responsible for everyone hearing an encounter and laughing, instead of asking questions... Such individuals are largely responsible for maintaining the secrecy around the issue, as they help to make the entire subject the butt of jokes, when in reality, it could very well be the most important issue our species has ever come across....



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 02:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by Gazrok

That's partially influenced by the fact that some people will exclusively take the negative elements and not only start to debunk the Meier case but also ufology and the contactee phenomena as a whole


This is EXACTLY why such charlatans need to be exposed quickly, as it's these whackos, who are responsible for everyone hearing an encounter and laughing, instead of asking questions... Such individuals are largely responsible for maintaining the secrecy around the issue, as they help to make the entire subject the butt of jokes, when in reality, it could very well be the most important issue our species has ever come across....


Really??? Are contactees the whackos that ruin it for the rest of ufology? I would say most people ruin it quite nicely by themselves and don't need any help from the contactees.This discussion board doesn't exactly strike me as a fountain of objectivity or balance seeing the comments on UFO photographs and films.
If a UFO is in the distance? - "could be anything because it's to blurred"!.
If a UFO is closeby, in focus and metallic looking? - "it's probably a model"!.
If a UFO is in front of a tree? - "could be a model with a construction behind it"!.
If a UFO looks classic? -"it's probably a household utensil"!
If a UFO wobbles or circles? - "it's probably hanging on a string"!
If a UFO has a protruberance on the topside? - "that's where the wire is attached"!

Oh yeah, people want the truth.........not.In another thread a footage was convincing and I even spotted a reaction saying - "geesh, I hope it's a hoax".Most here are simply looking for grounds of dismissal because in the back of their minds they find the whole concept of ETs visiting us scary as hell and by denial they can sleep better at night.
But let me get this straight Gazrok, you want to get rid of the contactees while even photographs and films are so poorly received on this board? You want official (government) organizations making conclusions for you such as the one where you applied for a job? Good luck, I'll do my own thinking on this matter.Does that make me a whacko?



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 04:50 PM
link   
It is painfully obvious to me that people believe absolute crap. Even when their noses are thoroughly rubbed in it. Considering the evidence, Meier has latched onto something that he cannot go to jail for. I.e: Aliens/UFOs phenomena. Reminds me of the whole Von Daniken deal. Von Daniken was in trouble for scamming people on real estate or something like that. He then got a great idea- Make-up a bunch of crap in the UFO field, no one could prosecute him for that stuff. So both Von Daniken and Meier have found a gulible market and a safe haven from prosecution.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by Der Kapitan]



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 11:45 PM
link   

What I basicly do is take the positive and negative elements of a contactee case.I do that equally, not selectively.While I don't like Meier and some of the things he said, I'm not going to throw my principles overboard because of that.Yes, some photographs are mostlikely faked but if you want to be a thorough and professional debunker you have disproof the whole lot which is harder than you might think.Some 70 people have testified to unusual circumstances involving Billy Meier.Some even stated that they saw the ships Meier photographed.While Meier's ex-wife retracted her support, his son did not and still openly supports his father.


This is my opinion, take it for what it is worth. I do not think your strategy is sensible. It is almost the antithesis of extreme skepticism: proven only when it is proven. You will be left clinging onto the worst of cases, and brush over the best. If any element is hoaxed/faked in a case, this suggests that all of it could be faked. If more than one element is hoaxed/faked, then it really brings your own intelligence into question, if you pursue it.

In the case of Meier, we have proven that at least some of his contact are fake. We have established that at least 7 pieces of his evidence are faked. We have established many of his claims to be lies. We have established he has a criminal past. He has zero credibility.

Nor does he have any evidence whatsoever:

1. There is no published information with prescient information
2. There is no evidence his photographs are genuine

All Meier has is testimony. Heresay. Rumours. None of it is verifable or falsifiable evidence. Do you really find it surprising 70 odd witnesses claim they've seen him photographing them? He's a cult leader my friend, he claims to be a prophet, and a friend of Jesus. There are very gullible sheep-minded people that want to believe this.

So in the end you are left with some farmer, whose been proven to be lying, faking, and using this to form a cult, and has nothing but heresay from cult followers to support his lies. DROP HIM.


Me personally I find the contactee cases of George Adamski and Howard Menger very intriquing.


I do not know anything about them. I will read into them.



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 02:37 AM
link   
Hi Indigo_Child,

The outcome of an evaluation depends on your criteria.Look at what you just did here.


All Meier has is testimony. Heresay. Rumours. None of it is verifable or falsifiable evidence. Do you really find it surprising 70 odd witnesses claim they've seen him photographing them? He's a cult leader my friend, he claims to be a prophet, and a friend of Jesus. There are very gullible sheep-minded people that want to believe this.


You basicly brush the 70 odd witnesses off by saying it's a cult related mass hysteria thing.Gazrok tried to pull the same trick on Adamski's witnesses but then I showed him reports of police officers sighting the same craft.Of course then it was unrelated according to him.Right.
Before you dismiss all the 70 people you might want to take a look at how many didn't belong to Meier's group.Sure a portion of those witnesses belong to Meier's group and don't strike me as great independant thinkers which could question their credibility.Don't be to fast in throwing out the proverbial baby with the bathwater.


This is my opinion, take it for what it is worth. I do not think your strategy is sensible. It is almost the antithesis of extreme skepticism: proven only when it is proven. You will be left clinging onto the worst of cases, and brush over the best. If any element is hoaxed/faked in a case, this suggests that all of it could be faked. If more than one element is hoaxed/faked, then it really brings your own intelligence into question, if you pursue it.

In the case of Meier, we have proven that at least some of his contact are fake. We have established that at least 7 pieces of his evidence are faked. We have established many of his claims to be lies. We have established he has a criminal past. He has zero credibility.


With all due respect I don't think your strategy is sensible.I seem to recall that in the beginning of this thread your position on the Meier case was somewhat different but then negative elements were discussed and you completely swung around.Hell, I even knew those tidbits before I showed up here.
What you should do, now that you have negative side of the story, is research the positive aspects.Oddly that's still there.Yes fake elements could suggest that everything is a fraud in his case but make a case for it then, show how the rest is faked.
Relax, I knew Meier lied, it fits the profile but somewhere at the core could ly the truth.The Meier case is like an onion where you have to peal the bad layers off untill you find that which is the truth.Since I'm no Meier supporter I think it's best that Aurelius shows you reports and analysis' which speak for the case.



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 02:54 AM
link   

Originally posted by Der Kapitan
It is painfully obvious to me that people believe absolute crap. Even when their noses are thoroughly rubbed in it. Considering the evidence, Meier has latched onto something that he cannot go to jail for. I.e: Aliens/UFOs phenomena. Reminds me of the whole Von Daniken deal. Von Daniken was in trouble for scamming people on real estate or something like that. He then got a great idea- Make-up a bunch of crap in the UFO field, no one could prosecute him for that stuff. So both Von Daniken and Meier have found a gulible market and a safe haven from prosecution.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by Der Kapitan]


Hi Der Kapitan,

Correct, some people will believe anything.Looking at how a questionable president was re-elected I would say those people are not restricted to ufology.There's also the other side of the coin where people don't believe or refuse to believe anything.Such people try to dismiss everything, even going against logic and intelligence.
Bad 'marketing', hmm.You should be glad Von Daniken doesn't have any stock.That could perhaps create another Enron scandal.



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 03:28 AM
link   
I jumped the guns on some assertions. I would like to retract some statements:


Originally posted by Indigo_Child

5. The San franciso Earthquake pictures: Claimed to be taken in a time travel


I cannot claim this to be a hoax. I have yet to see either the original photograph of the Earthquake from Meier, or the photograph of the painting from the geological magazine as claimed by Korf.

Can someone please produce the photographs in question.


The following are most definitely lies told by Meier:

1. He went back in time and was selected by Jesus to become his disciple. He came back out of the fear of being crucified.
2. He photographed the eye of God. He only photographed one eye, because he claimed the other was closed!


I was a bit confused on Meier's assertion about seeing gods eye. As he said in his notes, that there is no creator. So it must have been metaphorical. A meier camp member claims the "eye of god" means the constellation of Lyra.

I also cannot verify the claim he's met Jesus. The FIGU web site denies it. So until someone can verify it, for the sake of honesty, I retract this assertion.

I feel that I have been very harsh to Meier off-hand. I think I read too much into misinformation by Korf, and seeing as it is so difficult to find information on him for me, all i get is lies that seem to be perpetrated by Korf.

However, I am still maintaing my skepticism on Meier, as there is so much wrong with him and his case. I retract my conclusion of him being a hoax though, until the evidence of Korf's claim emerges.

Meanwhile, I am having a very fierce debate with a Meier camp member. He claims he does have a book from 1993 with contact information that forecasts the US terror attacks. Yet, he does not want to show me evidence..... right..

[edit on 5-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 05:49 AM
link   

5. The San franciso Earthquake pictures: Claimed to be taken in a time travel

I cannot claim this to be a hoax. I have yet to see either the original photograph of the Earthquake from Meier, or the photograph of the painting from the geological magazine as claimed by Korf.

Can someone please produce the photographs in question.


I do not have the photograph in question for comparison.However Gary Kinder, a pro-Meier author mind you, commented on this; ( www.figu.org... )

"On the other side, I know that Meier's photos of the alleged future destruction of San Francisco, for instance, came right out of the September 1977 issue of GEO Magazine. After one of the witnesses reported this to me, I found the magazine myself and compared the photographs. They were identical. All of this is in the bookthe crazy claims, the apparent lies, the unexplained disappearances, the mysterious landing tracks, all weaved into the narrative."

In all fairness, you might want to check out the entire article because Gary Kinder, although tasked with writing a book about Meier, seems objective enough.


I was a bit confused on Meier's assertion about seeing gods eye. As he said in his notes, that there is no creator. So it must have been metaphorical. A meier camp member claims the "eye of god" means the constellation of Lyra.


Yeah, 'God's Eye' in this case means the double ring nebula near the constellation of Lyra.The comment that one eye was closed was made jokingly.Supposedly Meier was taken there on a spaceship and photographed the nebula himself.Naturally controversy arose over this since some claimed the normal hand-held camera he used is inadequate to pick up the weak light coming from the nebula, and once again the image was highly similar to what can be found in the astronomical books.


I also cannot verify the claim he's met Jesus. The FIGU web site denies it. So until someone can verify it, for the sake of honesty, I retract this assertion.


I've read somewhere did he had in fact claimed to have met Jesus on one of his timetravel trips.I just looked on the FIGU site and can't find a related article at this time.Rain-check on that one.


I feel that I have been very harsh to Meier off-hand. I think I read too much into misinformation by Korf, and seeing as it is so difficult to find information on him for me, all i get is lies that seem to be perpetrated by Korf.However, I am still maintaing my skepticism on Meier, as there is so much wrong with him and his case. I retract my conclusion of him being a hoax though, until the evidence of Korf's claim emerges.Meanwhile, I am having a very fierce debate with a Meier camp member. He claims he does have a book from 1993 with contact information that forecasts the US terror attacks. Yet, he does not want to show me evidence..... right..


No harm done.Korff isn't correct either in every way, he made some pretty foolish assertions, he also got the names of certain characters wrong which speaks of sloppy investigative work.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:24 PM
link   
All right, I found a crapy photo of Billy Meiers Eye of God


But I still want to see more Dinosaurs and the aftermath of the earthquake in San Francisco photo.

Anyone?




top topics



 
0
<< 4  5  6    8 >>

log in

join