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Billy Meier, Debunking, Defending, whichever....

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posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 11:28 AM
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What are your impressions of the movie clip?

www.billymeier.com...

I hadn't seen this one before.Although the resolution isn't that high, it's still very intriquing.This footage doesn't give me the impression it's a model and if it's a fake then I wonder how it's done.




posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 11:33 AM
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EDIT: Here's FIGU confirmation of it....

www.figu.org...

"Furthermore, I was permitted to photograph a laser pistol with which I shot a hole into the trunk of a dying apple tree which, by the way, miraculously began to suddenly bloom and bear fruit once again, something it had not done for years."


That only claims that Meier photographed a "laser pistol". It does not confirm that the photograph shown is that pistol. Further, is there any record of Meier photographing the woman holding the "laser pistol" If it indeed is, it would cast a lot of doubt over this, already confusing case.

You are probably not aware, but while I am seemingly defending Meier here, I am challenging his followers at his forum. However, this would not be incontrovertable proof for Meier being a hoax, as we are discussing an "alien object" and it difficult to say what an "alien object" would look like - plausible deniability. Yet then again, it is difficult for me as an intelligent person to not be dubious of what looks like an 70's toy gun, and a woman wearing tin foil, to be an advanced alien human carrying a laser weapon.

However again, I need a source to verify these are his photographs. I am sorry, but again being an intelligent investigator, means not blindly accepting someones word that the said photographs are Meiers. Further, the man in the photograph is unclear, he could be anyone for all I know.

If there is no reliable or credible source corroborating the photographs origins are from Meier, then there is no argument, and it terminates there.

[edit on 1-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 11:48 AM
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However again, I need a source to verify these are his photographs. I am sorry, but again being an intelligent investigator, means not blindly accepting someones word that the said photographs are Meiers. Further, the man in the photograph is unclear, he could be anyone for all I know.


Agreed....I too would like a stronger link between the photos and Meier. However, you cannot deny that this would then have to be another one-armed man who looks VERY similar to Meier did at the time in question (based on other photos of him in that timeframe). Also, the location should be easy enough to verify, as the center (where the pics were taken) is supposedly still around. That would also help verify the connection.


If there is no reliable or credible source corroborating the photographs origins are from Meier, then there is no argument, and it terminates there.


I disagree there. We have just as much reason to accept, not accept these photos as Meier's as we do the ones on his site. We also have the corraborating statement in Billy's own words, that he was permitted to photograph the "ray gun" at the time in question, which further bolster's the pics' credibility, as well as the unquestionable presence of a one-armed man in one photo.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by TerraX
What are your impressions of the movie clip?

www.billymeier.com...

I hadn't seen this one before.Although the resolution isn't that high, it's still very intriquing.This footage doesn't give me the impression it's a model and if it's a fake then I wonder how it's done.


I am going to switch "my" camp for this particular example. I saw Aurelius mention in another thread in the form of evidence, but frankly, I cannot see how it helps Meier's case. Yeah, there is certainly a large metallic object, but it's not hovering near a tree, it seems stuck to it. Now had it been hovering above it, it would have been very compelling evidence for Meiers case. I am inclined to just reject this.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 12:11 PM
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Agreed....I too would like a stronger link between the photos and Meier. However, you cannot deny that this would then have to be another one-armed man who looks VERY similar to Meier did at the time in question (based on other photos of him in that timeframe). Also, the location should be easy enough to verify, as the center (where the pics were taken) is supposedly still around. That would also help verify the connection.


I would be interested in what Meier and co have to say on this. I would strongly expect denial, because I really cannot see how anyone whose being honest with themselves, would not cringe and question at such photographs.

Yes, the man does look like Billy Meier, but the resemblance, given the unclairty and low resolution of the photograph, is as good as a Hollywood double. Further, it is not that difficult to fake a missing arm

Again, we can invoke the argument of plausible deniability. It has already been claimed that the MIB and the government are circulating lies and fakes. So that must be considered.


I disagree there. We have just as much reason to accept, not accept these photos as Meier's as we do the ones on his site. We also have the corraborating statement in Billy's own words, that he was permitted to photograph the "ray gun" at the time in question, which further bolster's the pics' credibility, as well as the unquestionable presence of a one-armed man in one photo.


The words talk about "the laser pistol" not "a laser pistol" Simply because Meier claimed to photograph the laser pistol, does not mean, this is that photograph. This could be one of those claimed "fakes" As I said, without evidence for this argument, there is no argument.

[edit on 1-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Peronemlin


What about the laser gun pictures? They look convincing enough for me...





Oh yes. Now I am really convinced.

That raygun looks like a similar object I found under my Christmas tree one year, wrapped in gold foil, with a card that said "from santa". It even came in a colorful box that said "Buck Rodgers ray Gun".

Guess Santa must be pliedian too, as is Buck Rodgers.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 12:30 PM
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Seems that even our own Aurelieus is vouching for the pics (from another Billy Meier thread here on ATS)


I have video of Meier's 8mm film footage showing Meier displaying the weapon and demonstrating how he shot a 1 to 2-inch diameter hole through a large tree which he films up close. I've seen the hole in the mid-90s when I visited Meier's place. The team that went over there documented the fact that the hole was "burned" through the tree


Woo hoo!!! Let's see!....*listens to the crickets*


I have no reason at this point in time to doubt the veracity of that picture.
(referring to one of the posted pics of the Billy Meier "ray gun")

Perhaps we could e-mail Mr. Horn the pics, see if he will verify them?

While easy to fake one arm...not so easy to do so with such a clear shadow on the ground...(the other arm would likely show)...


[edit on 1-12-2004 by Gazrok]



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 12:36 PM
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I have video of Meier's 8mm film footage showing Meier displaying the weapon and demonstrating how he shot a 1 to 2-inch diameter hole through a large tree which he films up close. I've seen the hole in the mid-90s when I visited Meier's place. The team that went over there documented the fact that the hole was "burned" through the tree


Yes, that is not in dispute., and I thought we have already established that this is also corroborated by Meier himself. What is in dispute are these photographs. Yes, I would like to see what Horn has to say.


[edit on 1-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 12:47 PM
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Guess we'll see if Horn answers...


BTW-in case he gets a burr up his butt and orders the pics down by stating copyright (which of course would then legitimize them, hehe..)...I'd highly recommend right click, save as...


[edit on 1-12-2004 by Gazrok]



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by TerraX
What are your impressions of the movie clip?

www.billymeier.com...

I hadn't seen this one before.Although the resolution isn't that high, it's still very intriquing.This footage doesn't give me the impression it's a model and if it's a fake then I wonder how it's done.


It does give the impression of being a model. And I find very suspicious the fact that it is not moving (although if it moved, it would surely spin around like hanging from a string, as many Meiers films). Its also suspicious that it has a tree behind it, surely to hide props that hold the model.

My opininon is that the model is hanging from a bar, attached to the tree. (the model itself hides the bar). The bar passes through the leaves and is attached to the trunk.




posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
Guess we'll see if Horn answers...


BTW-in case he gets a burr up his butt and orders the pics down by stating copyright (which of course would then legitimize them, hehe..)...I'd highly recommend right click, save as...


[edit on 1-12-2004 by Gazrok]


This should proof mighty interesting.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 01:01 PM
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Don't worry, I'll definitely post the reply...IF I get one...



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by Peronemlin

Originally posted by TerraX
What are your impressions of the movie clip?

www.billymeier.com...

I hadn't seen this one before.Although the resolution isn't that high, it's still very intriquing.This footage doesn't give me the impression it's a model and if it's a fake then I wonder how it's done.


It does give the impression of being a model. And I find very suspicious the fact that it is not moving (although if it moved, it would surely spin around like hanging from a string, as many Meiers films). Its also suspicious that it has a tree behind it, surely to hide props that hold the model.

My opininon is that the model is hanging from a bar, attached to the tree. (the model itself hides the bar). The bar passes through the leaves and is attached to the trunk.



While it is not impossible that such a technique you describe could have worked, it's an awfull lot of work.Trying to be objective I must also point out that not all of Meier's films have objects going around in a pendulum motion.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by TerraX
it's an awfull lot of work.


Awfull lot of work?!?!

Its just a stick attached to tree...it could even been tied instead of nailed...I think its really simple...you could do it even with one hand
(sorry, I coulnt resist the temptation!)



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 01:30 PM
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Not sure if we addressed this one yet...



A - are likely large ball bearings (such as on a semi or farm tractor)
B - are fairly obviously two inverted stainless steel mixing bowls
C - is either a bracelet or a headband (more likely the latter) depending on the size of the other components of the model
D - is a flywheel from an engine of a large truck or tractor (likely the same one that the ball bearings go to). You can even see the lined grooves for gripping the belt.

This is even more apparent in some of the more laughable "wedding cake UFO" pics which show gaps between the ball bearings, etc. such as in the infamous "Hot Wheels" pic (which shows a car blurry, with a clear ship in the background, making it painfully obvious that the car used is a model).

EDIT: even a gap in this one, if you look at the middle row of bearings, on the left side....


[edit on 1-12-2004 by Gazrok]



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
Guess we'll see if Horn answers...


I think near unquestionably he will deny it, unless he can talk himself out of what looks like a woman in a tin-foil suit holding a 70's toygun.

I just noted something about all the photographs, a potentially dead give-away, that these photographs are indeed fakes(not Meiers) If you note the caption below the photographs, they state the origin as "semyase silver star centre" when in fact it is called semjase silver star centre. In fact if you google it, you will not find a single source using "semyase silver star center"

Now, that is funny.

[edit on 1-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 01:35 PM
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just noted something about all the photographs, a potentially dead give-away, that these photographs are indeed fakes(not Meiers) If you note the caption below the photographs, they state the origin as "semyase silver star centre" when in fact it is called semjase silver star centre. In fact if you google it, you will not find a single source using "semyase silver star center"


I actually noticed that myself, but given the y and j substitution in many languages, it's not especially surprising.... If they are Meier's, then they were likely published SOMEWHERE (such as a book, etc.) at one time or another. Looks like a library trip is in order soon.....



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by Peronemlin

Originally posted by TerraX
it's an awfull lot of work.


Awfull lot of work?!?!

Its just a stick attached to tree...it could even been tied instead of nailed...I think its really simple...you could do it even with one hand
(sorry, I coulnt resist the temptation!)


Fascinating.....You forgot to weigh the model down so it doesn't get blown down by the wind.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 01:56 PM
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I actually noticed that myself, but given the y and j substitution in many languages, it's not especially surprising....


What is surprising, is that considering Semjase Silver Star Center was established and christned by Meier himself, and also considering that Semyase Silver Star Center is not used once anywhere all over the internet. I mean it reasonable to say that Meier should at least know the name of his organization.

It's not surpising that three photographs of questionable origin and that clearly look wrong, are the only items on the whole internet, who've got the name of the organization itself, wrong.

Have you ever got your own names wrong, like instead of Gazrok, have you at times thought your name is Gadrok? I hope not.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by TerraX

Originally posted by Peronemlin

Originally posted by TerraX
it's an awfull lot of work.


Awfull lot of work?!?!

Its just a stick attached to tree...it could even been tied instead of nailed...I think its really simple...you could do it even with one hand
(sorry, I coulnt resist the temptation!)


Fascinating.....You forgot to weigh the model down so it doesn't get blown down by the wind.


Just wait for a day without wind.

[edit on 1-12-2004 by Peronemlin]



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