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posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by Oceanborn
 


I was apprehensive due to this comment"
I see that it has a bunch of symbols about things that are mentioned in the NT,it says "it was used by christians" and that's it. Are you kidding me?
edit on 6-2-2013 by Oceanborn because: Just saw your edit. I insist,you have to be kidding me.
"

Just trying to offer the information you asked for.

Since all your questions have been answered with source material, I expect you agree that the fish symbol and the star are both early Christian symbols?




posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Oceanborn
 


History has different versions. You are talking to two Freemasons.


The history I speak of was learned in High School. I wasn't a freemason then. So now there was only one sect of Christianity?

Please be very clear on that.



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Oceanborn
 


History has different versions. You are talking to two Freemasons.


The history I speak of was learned in High School. I wasn't a freemason then. So now there was only one sect of Christianity?

Please be very clear on that.


I already edited for clarity.



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by NarrowGate
 


I don't care which version is as long as something is being brought to the table.

I see the insanity of "let's turn every single thing in this world into symbols" and upon this chaos,confusion is building like the star "turning" into a pentagram and/or the opposite.

The next is not just for you but for anyone interested:
The sole widely acceptable symbol is that of the cross but it's not that Christians need it. Christ said "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; henceforth you know him and have seen him."

The Way,Truth and Life is one. Christians use the cross as a symbol,a reminder but that's all it is. Symbols are not needed but Christians do need His Word.



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 02:43 PM
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Reply to network dude :

EDIT: I butchered the quote so nvm that.

I said that because I truly find it odd at the very least. That's what they do after all,they say "christians use it" and call it a day.

I do thank you for the information,that's all I wanted.

I don't exactly agree with the fish. Since I don't have the time to read those all those books I'll just accept that fish were indeed used. The problem remains though,what kind of people those were? Were indeed christians or they were following twisted versions of it? It would be a good thing to know this but I don't. Since I don't,All I have to do is look into the NT and see if it's that important or if people are even called to do such a thing and they're not.
Last but not least,I insist that just because something is mentioned that doesn't mean it should but turned into a symbol. It's just ends up being silly (no offense to you btw).
edit on 6-2-2013 by Oceanborn because: (no reason given)
edit on 6-2-2013 by Oceanborn because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by Oceanborn
 


If you weren't intending to come off as arrogant, then I apologize. But looking at your post, I am not sure how else to take it.

The pentagram was adopted by Satanists for their own purposes. An 5 pointed star it a pentagram. It's just a shape. The Swastika was a symbol with vastly different meaning before the Nazi's adopted it.

Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck.

link to source

Symbolism has meaning to the individual. So what a star means to you, might not be the same thing to me. It might remind me of a Heineken Red Star that I had in Germany.

You stated 'matter of factly' that the star and fish symbols were not early christian symbols. Proof of that has been posted. With citations.

And in the beginning of Christianity, there were many different sects. If this is disputed, please list what you feel is inaccurate about this statement.



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by Oceanborn
reply to post by NarrowGate
 


I don't care which version is as long as something is being brought to the table.

I see the insanity of "let's turn every single thing in this world into symbols" and upon this chaos,confusion is building like the star "turning" into a pentagram and/or the opposite.

The next is not just for you but for anyone interested:
The sole widely acceptable symbol is that of the cross but it's not that Christians need it. Christ said "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; henceforth you know him and have seen him."

The Way,Truth and Life is one. Christians use the cross as a symbol,a reminder but that's all it is. Symbols are not needed but Christians do need His Word.


A blessed cross/crucifix/rosary actually has power over Satan as long as you do not fall into superstitious thinking that it is a talisman and that the power comes from somewhere other than God. IE the cross/crucifix/rosary is where the power comes from, and not God. It is a fine line that many protestants and Catholics alike choose not to walk at all.

But you are correct, all we need is Him - the Word incarnate.


They are not lying to you about the star and pentagram btw.



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


No,that's not how I wanted to come off. I'm simply frustrated and surprised by it. Even now I'm having a hard time to describe it.



The pentagram was adopted by Satanists for their own purposes. An 5 pointed star it a pentagram. It's just a shape. The Swastika was a symbol with vastly different meaning before the Nazi's adopted it.

But the author makes it clear that it should be "distinguished from the pagan pentagram". We can't quote him on one thing and ignore him on another.



Symbolism has meaning to the individual. So what a star means to you, might not be the same thing to me. It might remind me of a Heineken Red Star that I had in Germany.

So the pentagram could easily be used for evil since its meaning is not a fact but a matter of opinion,correct?




You stated 'matter of factly' that the star and fish symbols were not early christian symbols. Proof of that has been posted. With citations.

Like I said before,for all we know those could have been used by self-proclaimed christians. That doesn't make those symbols themselves christianic.
In the past,there have been self-proclaimed christians who committed many crimes,should we say that those crimes are christianic too? Off course not.




And in the beginning of Christianity, there were many different sects. If this is disputed, please list what you feel is inaccurate about this statement.

I know this and I don't dispute it.



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by Oceanborn
So you say but why should I just take your word for it? Because a web site owner said so?

No, history says so. There were a variety of sects of Christianity and most of them were represented at the Council of Nicaea.


Originally posted by NarrowGate
Yes you can find examples of crosses being used before Jesus was Crucified. That does not mean there is "pagan influence" in Christianity.

Do you really want to play this game?



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate
That does not mean there is "pagan influence" in Christianity.
When is Easter again? Oh, right. The first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox. You're right. Nothing remotely pagan about that.



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by NarrowGate
 


Christ didn't need a cross or anything else when satan tried to tempt him.





They are not lying to you about the star and pentagram btw.

I haven't called anybody a liar with the single exception with KsigMason when he tried to call me a liar. If he supports that then he either has to prove I'm a liar or be one himself.
Not trying to stir things up,for all I know he could've changed his mind about it.

About the pentagram,read my replies. Do we know what kind of people used it? I could start calling myself a christian and then kill a bunch of people. Is that action christianic?
It's simple.



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 




No, history says so. There were a variety of sects of Christianity and most of them were represented at the Council of Nicaea.


I don't even know why I argued about this.
Sorry but I'm doing other stuff at the same time and I misread. We agree on that.


EDIT: But I do want to add,it doesn't mean all sects were right. That's why they were different to begin with.
edit on 6-2-2013 by Oceanborn because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by NarrowGate
That does not mean there is "pagan influence" in Christianity.
When is Easter again? Oh, right. The first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox. You're right. Nothing remotely pagan about that.


And?

I don't see how dates like Christmas and Easter and so on mean pagans influenced anything. More likely we took their holidays back for God. Considering every day can be tied to something....we kind of had to.

So no, just because the days are the same does not = pagan influence. Show pagan influence in the realm of ideology. This will be fun, I know you can come up with something.



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by Oceanborn
reply to post by KSigMason
 




No, history says so. There were a variety of sects of Christianity and most of them were represented at the Council of Nicaea.


I don't even know why I argued about this.
Sorry but I'm doing other stuff at the same time and I misread. We agree on that.


EDIT: But I do want to add,it doesn't mean all sects were right. That's why they were different to begin with.
edit on 6-2-2013 by Oceanborn because: (no reason given)


Yes there were gnostic sects for example, and gnosticism is blatantly false.


It's not hard to claim to be a Christian. It is much harder to walk with Him.



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


Yes I do.



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate
I don't see how dates like Christmas and Easter and so on mean pagans influenced anything. More likely we took their holidays back for God.


Taking something back implies you had it in the first place which is not true as the Pagans had it first.



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I don't see how dates like Christmas and Easter and so on mean pagans influenced anything. More likely we took their holidays back for God.


Taking something back implies you had it in the first place which is not true as the Pagans had it first.


Everything has always belonged to the one true God. It would be unbecoming of ANY Mason to say that Pagans had rights to any day before the ONE true God.

Now if you want to talk specifically Christians - we just happen to know who the one true God is
.



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate
Everything has always belonged to the one true God.


Tell that to the Pagans.


It would be unbecoming of ANY Mason to say that Pagans had rights to any day before the ONE true God.


Why? Should we ignore history for the sake of religious zealotry?



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 05:14 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


gtfo you're not a Mason. I'm calling you on this. You can't be.


You are a barbaric intellectual who has no reverence for God, regardless of incomplete understanding.

Masons believe in the one true God.



posted on Feb, 6 2013 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Everything has always belonged to the one true God.


Tell that to the Pagans.


It would be unbecoming of ANY Mason to say that Pagans had rights to any day before the ONE true God.


Why? Should we ignore history for the sake of religious zealotry?


Just for clarity of AMs beliefs. This is no Mason.





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