Originally posted by muse7

edit on 2/6/2013 by muse7 because: (no reason given)

my husband looks just like this guy. but, he has european ancestory.
is he guilty or not? skin color. it's not about skin color folks. it's not about what happened 2 centuries ago.

hello???

Originally posted by ker2010
Its about resources , you think the unemployment rate is high now? S o your saying if everyone wanted to move here across the world you would tell all 6 billion others to come?

The white guilt crap dont work on this white man so you guys pushing it can shove it up your ass.

I'm not telling you to feel guilty. I certainly don't. But I'm not going to pretend like "it's not supposed to happen to us!"

And sure... if 6 billion others come here I will move to the other side of the planet. These problems solve themselves but you guys who want to control things (as if you ever could) are just going to drive yourselves insane and guess what... THEY WILL STILL COME because you haven't dealt with the real problem.

That's the entire point. It's not that having people swarm here in stupid droves is a good idea... but that we won't stop it if we don't stop the actual source of it... and that is *Americans* paying for them to come over.

And guess what, those Americans are already breaking the law so more laws won't help.

So I ask again... what are you REALLY going to do that will stop it for real rather than flail around hoping something finally works while it continues to happen? We know walls, shooting, and laws don't work. So I'm not asking you this to be a jerk... I'm saying... what are you or anyone else REALLY going to do to make it stop?

Originally posted by BrandonD

Originally posted by hellbjorn012
People for open borders are idiots. Are you ready to let everyone in Ethiopia come here as well? How about Somalia? Where does it stop?

Friggin hiLARious.

Yea, all those Ethiopians and Somali families that can't even afford rice have somehow managed to secure a passport and a plane ticket across the Atlantic Ocean.

Or perhaps you were thinking they would all swim here?

But you have no problems with the neighbors to the south coming over with no passport and plane ticket? Whats the difference? :/

For most people its much easier to blame the people being lured here by companies that are willing to hire them, instead of realizing that the problem is rooted much deeper.

ergo

and there's the rub. are the businesses exploiting the labor of the mexican people, white or are various racial backgrounds involved?

Originally posted by undo
my husband looks just like this guy. but, he has european ancestory.
is he guilty or not? skin color. it's not about skin color folks. it's not about what happened 2 centuries ago.

And are we special in that "it's not ever supposed to happen to us!?!?"

Well guess what folks... it is... and it's being sustained and supported by your own people who stand to profit greatly and are already breaking the laws so they won't stop... they will just find other loop holes and evasions.

So it's happening. For real. To us. And we aren't stopping it.

It won't stop until we stop blaming people who really are doing exactly what we would do if we were in their shoes (on average)... and start looking at the people who are giving them the real incentive to come.

Originally posted by ErgoTheConclusion

Originally posted by ker2010


So I ask again... what are you REALLY going to do that will stop it for real rather than flail around hoping something finally works while it continues to happen? We know walls, shooting, and laws don't work. So I'm not asking you this to be a jerk... I'm saying... what are you or anyone else REALLY going to do to make it stop?

edit on 6-2-2013 by ErgoTheConclusion because: (no reason given)

Simple 50 k fine per illegal alien to any company employing them and enforced,

Problem solved.

Originally posted by ker2010
Yay another thread to try and induce white guilt. :/All sovereign nation have border policy's why should the US be different?

All those who want open borders please fill out a form stating how many you are gonna let move in your house and on your property.

We all know whites have no guilt. I'm white and I don't feel guilty.

If a list was made of the causes of poverty and inequality in America, illegal immigration would rank somewhere between 165th and 213th. There are many far more important causes, but illegal immigration is one from the menu presented to you by the ruling class because it tickles your racist bone.

Originally posted by undo
ergo

and there's the rub. are the businesses exploiting the labor of the mexican people, white or are various racial backgrounds involved?

I don't think they are exploiting them... they are exploiting us by hiring them over citizens.

They are giving those people a chance... so they are grateful and will do everything they can to stay as invisible as possible to keep the opportunity for a better life coming. Quite reasonable from their point of operation.

WE are being exploited by our own people. That's what I'm hitting at over and over... and so long as don't go for the root issues we're going to constantly be frustrated why "nothing works".

Similar to how blacks were selling other blacks into slavery. But we don't talk about that much.

Originally posted by ker2010
Simple 50 k fine per illegal alien to any company employing them and enforced,

Problem solved.

Good luck. They are already breaking the laws so they clearly aren't going to be afraid of them... already know how to cover their tracks pretty well, and most could absorb any fines enough to cover the money saved.

So what else are you gonna do? Make it a million? Who gets that money? Is it helping the community more by fining the business and draining even MORE wealth out of them? Go directly back to the community? Who in the community? There are already issues with companies using threats of illegals against other companies to get an advantage.

Every punishment carries a blessing in disguise for some other more clever criminal.

We can't stop it by more laws or punishment. Good lord we've been doing that for thousands of years. It doesn't work.

Originally posted by undo
i don't see how the government providing the work force to be exploited is any less problematic than the employer wanting to exploit them. to me, this seems like high level collusion that has thus far succeeded because it keeps tossing the hot potato back and forth between them.

That's because you haven't thought about it in depth. They are not parallel at all.

If companies did not hire illegal immigrants, then illegal immigrants would not come here.

If companies continue to hire illegal immigrants, they will find a way to come here.

Simple as that.

Originally posted by BrandonD
That's because you haven't thought about it in depth. They are not parallel at all.

If companies did not hire illegal immigrants, then illegal immigrants would not come here.

If companies continue to hire illegal immigrants, they will find a way to come here.

Simple as that.

Not to mention back rubbing the government to "turn a blind eye to OUR illegals... but go after my competitor's illegals", etc. etc.

But agreed... at the end of the day, if they aren't getting paid, they won't come. We keep buying the products of companies we know hire little more than slave labor overseas... and hire illegals here. We keep buying their stuff, they keep paying the illegals, the illegals keep coming back over.

NOTHING will fix it until WE stop paying them to come. That includes the companies we support... the companies we pursue legal action against earnestly... etc etc.

Originally posted by ker2010
So every country who has border policies is racists according to you? Nice logic there. Race card always played by the people on a loosing end of a debate as always.

You're the one playing the race card, I could really give a damn.

Border policies are fine, but those who blame illegal immigration for the poverty and inequality that is increasing among US citizens is dead wrong.

Originally posted by votan

Originally posted by Maslo
I dont think the he made a good argument, and I dont get this train of thought.

In fact, the fate of native americans teaches us what the consequences of uncontrolled immigration can be for the original culture.

So it actually supports the anti-immigrant stance.

His point is that the people protesting illegal immigration are illegals themselves. It would be like illegals from mexico protesting illegals from china.. they are both illegals.

I still maintain that his point, while superficially appearing convincing, is in fact pretty illogical when you think about it deeper, and in fact supports the opposite - the fate of Native Americans is a memento of what uncontrolled immigration can do to domestic culture.

People protesting illegal immigration are not illegal because the tribal "states" or establishments that would make them illegal no longer exist. If the US collapses, the same would be true of Mexican immigrants. But its not true now.

There is nothing hypocritical about being against illegal immigration while being the descendant of European colonists. Why? Simple reason - even if European colonists were illegal immigrants, their descendants already born in America are not. The same is not true when it comes to many illegal immigrants which were not born in the US. And as far as I know, the US has birthright citizenship, so all people born in the US are citizens. So protesting illegals is not in any way contradicted by being only a descendant of illegals, but not an illegal immigrant yourself.

Originally posted by BrandonD

Originally posted by undo
i don't see how the government providing the work force to be exploited is any less problematic than the employer wanting to exploit them. to me, this seems like high level collusion that has thus far succeeded because it keeps tossing the hot potato back and forth between them.

That's because you haven't thought about it in depth. They are not parallel at all.

If companies did not hire illegal immigrants, then illegal immigrants would not come here.

If companies continue to hire illegal immigrants, they will find a way to come here.

Simple as that.

but isn't our government basically encouraging it by giving them first dibs at jobs and encouraging corporations to hire them with the promise of tax relief? in other words, they are shipping in democrats by the bucket load from foreign countries, with the promise of government handouts, good jobs and etc, making them racist and democrats for life. right now, the democratic party is starting to resemble its old self, where racism against another group (in that case blacks) was used to enslave them and now it's racism against whites. they understand one thing and one thing only: divide and enslave. and the republicans are in love with survival of the fittest ideology, so they just see dollar bills.

we are all SCREWED.

Originally posted by BrandonD

Originally posted by ker2010
So every country who has border policies is racists according to you? Nice logic there. Race card always played by the people on a loosing end of a debate as always.

You're the one playing the race card, I could really give a damn.

Border policies are fine, but those who blame illegal immigration for the poverty and inequality that is increasing among US citizens is dead wrong.

No one is blaming it all on that, its a very small piece of the pie. The corrupt government is the big problem and them not enforcing laws.

If we had a government truly for the people and not for big business and special interest groups all would fall into line.

Originally posted by undo
we are all SCREWED.

Yes... and it's not the illegals fault but those who made it profitable to come and stay.

It wasn't the native american's fault the Europeans came (either through invitation or failure to fight)... it was the profitability of it.

If there is profit to be made from it illegal or not... unconstrained immigration will happen by people who fundamentally are doing the same thing you would if the US became a terrible place to try to get work. You'll start looking elsewhere, and if nowhere will take you... whatchagonnado?