European Jewish genome, the Khazar theory is confirmed in new study. Implications for Palestine?

reply to post by bluemirage5


explain why jews were not nomadic, ever heard of the diaspora?

reply to post by GeneralMishka


Did you read your own link? Because the first paragraph clearly states that most modern Jewish people have a mix of Caucasian and Semitic ancestry, as well as some Eastern European ancestry. Guess what? Of course their not 100% Semitic. If you live among a much larger population group for 2000 years, of course there is going to be lots of mixing. One can argue that Palestinians are not wholly Semitic also. As far as I know, they are mostly Arab with a probable smattering of Semitic and possibly European ancestry, but you don't hear me saying that they should be kicked out of the West Bank or Gaza because they're not 100% Semitic.

reply to post by resoe26


interesting. Most people never heard of crypto Jews. They were the jews that came from Spain to escape the hidden life style they had to adopt after the inquisition. They even had their own language. Ladino it was called.

Even some of the conquistadors were crypto Jews supposedly.

The interesting thing about the sephardic Jews, those from Spain and Portugal, is that they wrote one of the most interesting parts of the cabala. The Sephirot, and it was a collection of ideas that were hidden and handed down orally, like much of Jewish mysticism and all things cabala.

Also the line of Aaron is supposedly to have passed through the Iberian peninsula by way of Morroco after the destruction of the temple. It is the supposed source of the Merovingian lineage and that of all royalty. The Davidic line and the line of Arron are rumored to have converged in Royal lineages.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


Thats interesting you should mention that, because I recently read somewhere that Ladino is still spoken in parts of Israel.

reply to post by GeneralMishka


The Thirteenth Tribe (The Kazar theory if your like) is a very contentious book describing the theory that the Ashkenazi jews arose in Kazaria as converts to Judaism.

You can read the whole book here

"The Jews of our times fall into two main divisions: Sephardim and Ashkenazim.

The Sephardim are descendants of the Jews who since antiquity had lived in Spain (in Hebrew Sepharad) until they were expelled at the end of the fifteenth century and settled in the countries bordering the Mediterranean, the Balkans, and to a lesser extent in Western Europe. They spoke a Spanish-Hebrew dialect, Ladino, and preserved their own traditions and religious rites. In the 1960s, the number of Sephardim was estimated at 500,000.

The Ashkenazim, at the same period, numbered about eleven million. Thus, in common parlance, Jew is practically synonymous with Ashkenazi Jew." ( page 181).

In Mr. Koestler's own words, "The story of the Khazar Empire, as it slowly emerges from the past, begins to look like the most cruel hoax which history has ever perpetrated."

The history of the Ashkenazi Jews was widely known and appreciated in the former Soviet Union. Ashkenazi militants traced the area where the Turkic Khazars originated before their migration to Southern Russia to Birobidjan, an Eastern Siberian area as big as Switzerland bordered by the Amur river, by China and Mongolia. Around 1928 they started building settlements with the Soviet government's help and in 1934 the Autonomous Republic (Okrug) of Birobidjan Yevrei came into being with official languages of Yiddish and Russian. It is still there as an Autonomous Republic to this day, offering the only historically legitimate settlement area for Ashkenazi Jews willing to exercise their "right to return"…

Mr. Koestler was an Ashkenazi Jew and took pride in his Khazar ancestry. He was also a very talented and successful writer who published over 25 novels and essays. His most successful book, Darkness at Noon, was translated in thirty-three languages.

As expected, The Thirteenth Tribe caused a stir when published in 1976, since it demolishes ancient racial and ethnic dogmas...At the height of the controversy in 1983, the lifeless bodies of Arthur Koestler and his wife were found in their London home. Despite significant inconsistencies, the police ruled their death a suicide...Another Mossad "suicide"!

"The Jews" are not a race, but a religion "Judaism", however the drive to perceive Jews as a race seems to be getting in the way of facts. The tribes of Judah and the Tribes of Israel are the race, but both were "Jews". They are Israelites or Israelis as far as race goes and Jews by religion.

Possibly the oldest and most connected Jews to the original tribes of Israel are the Jews in Iran.

reply to post by Antonio1


yeah, its a living language.

It had its formative years while Jews were trying to pretend to be christian to avoid persecution by the church...or so I am told. The language Jews spoke at the time in Spain adapted to survive the linguistic drift suffered during the inquisition and the prior years of co-existence with Muslims and Christians in Spain. I forget what was spoken before Ladino by Sephardic Jews...probably Hebrew but something tells me I am wrong.

EDIT:
Here is a good read about Ladino.
www.sephardicstudies.org...

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by Antonio1

 

yeah, its a living language.

It had its formative years while Jews were trying to pretend to be christian to avoid persecution by the church...or so I am told. The language Jews spoke at the time in Spain adapted to survive the linguistic drift suffered during the inquisition and the prior years of co-existence with Muslims and Christians in Spain. I forget what was spoken before Ladino by Sephardic Jews...probably Hebrew but something tells me I am wrong.

EDIT:
Here is a good read about Ladino.
www.sephardicstudies.org...

edit on 5-2-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)

Saint James the Greater is buried in Santiago De Compostela (one of the 12 deciples of Jesus) This is in Galicia, Spain. Possibly many of the Jews followed him there... Could explain the lineage of the Sephardic Jews?

Excuse me, but genetics has nothing to do with what religious philosophy one subscribes to . Only a eugenicist (which is basically a word to describe a person who expresses thier xenophobia using genetics rather than using bullets or fists) would give a damn about the distinction, and the opinions of such folk really dont mean a whole hell of a lot.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
Excuse me, but genetics has nothing to do with what religious philosophy one subscribes to . Only a eugenicist (which is basically a word to describe a person who expresses thier xenophobia using genetics rather than using bullets or fists) would give a damn about the distinction, and the opinions of such folk really dont mean a whole hell of a lot.

It does for the conservative evangelical right in the USA, as they see these European Colonists as rightful heirs to the land of Palestine. Whether you agree with them or not, their voice carries a lot of weight in US Congress

reply to post by GeneralMishka


I dont give a damn if thier opinion has a density greater than the middle bits of a neutron star. A slobbering bunch of morons capable of placing value on this tosh ought to be barred from holding public office, or indeed holding a coffee without assistance.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
reply to post by ZakOlongapo

 

I dont get why the real bloodline of Jews really matters. When most Jews in the Jewish Torah who really meant anything were converts into Judaism.

edit on 5-2-2013 by FreedomEntered because: (no reason given)

Because right-wing nationalists in Israel have been wanting to prove that the land is theirs...
They also funded studies to show Middle Eastern genetics in East Europeans. They could only prove that there was a few percents of mixing, which can happen anywhere in the world.
They had a few years of badmouthing anyone that quoted Koestler, as antisemites.
Unpleasant as it may be for them, but today's Palestinians may be closer to original Jews by genetics than Jewish immigrants from Russia.

However, the crux of the issue is that Jewish and Moslem populations should agree on how to come to peace without exclusivity. Which both sides reject, but we have seen recently that right-wing governments make that less and less possible with all the new settlements and their methods. They point to terrorists and militiae, which ARE bad and fanatical and at times horrible, but not all Arabs or Muslims or Palestinians are ruled by those terrorists, whereas Israel again elected a nationalistic, no-compromises government.

Does not look pretty for any peace-loving person.

reply to post by GeneralMishka


The U.S. has not turned a Blind Eye to the Palestinians. If anything the U.S. has been paying them a HUGE amount of attention.

The Palestinians get Billions in U.S. Aid as well as the fact the U.S. puts up with the Palestinians being their own worse enemy.

All that the Palestinians have to do is recognize Israels right to exist and stop shooting and launching various missiles and weapons from Palestinian Territory and when this happens the United States would FORCE Israel to make peace.

The Palestinians have to just do a few things and not react to any Israeli actions or actions done by Militant Jews and they would get just about everything they want. There is NO WAY that the people of the United States would allow Israel to refuse to make peace or make a deal with the Land Issues if the Palestinians just knew how to restrain themselves.

Such behavior would not give Israel an excuse to use Military Action or just refuse to cut a deal as if there is one thing the Israeli's dislike more than the Palestinians....it's LOOSING Muli-Billions of Dollars in U.S. Aid and the ability to purchase U.S. Weapon Systems.

I have NEVER understood why the Palestinians...who have all the cards they need to get a winning hand to win the peace they desire as well as economic help from the United States...WHY they would be so stuborn or STUPID as to rather want to strike out in a manner that will get one nothing...rather than to put out their hand...to ask for it to be shaken....which if rejected would put them in the drivers set.

Split Infinity

Wasn't Jesus born in Palestine,

and not Israel (created 66 years ago)?

reply to post by tropic


Not that I have a position on this...the Palestinians as well as many Arab Tribes supported the Nazi's who invaded this entire area during WWII. Now it is not like the Palestinians or Arabs had any real ability to fight the Nazi's as they were tribal and tended to migrate around the area...but even if they though compliance to the Nazi's was a way to survive...they were certain to be on the list of Soon Dead.

Now as far as whether one believes Israel had or did not have any rights to become a state in this area...it is there and is a U.S. Ally thus it is not going anywhere.

Jordan and Egypt are at peace with Israel and have profitable relations...many other Arab states may appease their religious orthadox by refusing to make peace but the patience of the United States is not endless.

Since the U.S. Provides both Israel and Palestine with Billions in Aid as well as Billions in Aid are given to many other Arab states....there will soon come a time that either all sides come to an agreement or some will loose such Aid that does not seem to get anyone to agree to peace but REMOVAL of such Aid is sure to get these people to start finding a way to appease the U.S. so as to restore such Aid if removed.

The Palestinian Authority could not even opperate if not for the Multiple Billions of Dollars in U.S. Aid and for all the talk of supporting the Palestinians....Monetary Aid from other Arab States is gobbled up by Palestinian Leaders as such Aid does not have the srtings attached to it that U.S. Aid does which allows U.S. Aid to get to the people who need it more so than aid from others...although corruption is still an issue.

Arafat was said to have Multi-Billion of Dollars stashed away in Swiss Banks. Money he skimmed and stole from his own people. This Aid was mostly from Arab Leaders but some was U.S. Israel has also used U.S. aid in ways not sanctioned by the U.S. and this Aid needs to be reduced in my opinion.

In the end...it's about the MONEY as why would a Palestinian Leader who is making BILLIONS on the plight of his own people EVER want to stop such a gravy trin by vying for REACE?

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity



Not only were the arabs pro nazi, the zionists were pro nazi as well. The zionists were not popular at the time with European jewry, and rightfully so. Would you want to leave your home in Paris, Krakow or Munich for Palestine? Zionists and nazis had a common goal, relocating jews outside Europe, and they actively cooperated before the war, and during the early years of the war

Originally posted by resoe26
All I know is that my grandparents were Jews from Spain. (NW Spain, Galicia)
Apparently, there are many hispanics of jewish ancestry. Even in Mexico.

-Just look for the noses.

(like mine, guilty as charged)

edit on 5-2-2013 by resoe26 because: (no reason given)

people from Spain are NOT hispanic - they are white European.
They are Spanish, they are not native to Central / Southern America .

Wish Americans would stop calling Spanish people Hispanic, it is so ignorant/

Originally posted by HelenConway

Originally posted by resoe26
All I know is that my grandparents were Jews from Spain. (NW Spain, Galicia)
Apparently, there are many hispanics of jewish ancestry. Even in Mexico.

-Just look for the noses.

(like mine, guilty as charged)

edit on 5-2-2013 by resoe26 because: (no reason given)

people from Spain are NOT hispanic - they are white European.
They are Spanish, they are not native to Central / Southern America .

Wish Americans would stop calling Spanish people Hispanic, it is so ignorant/

edit on 6-2-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)

I believe the term "Hispanic" derives from the word Hispania. Which would make sense I suppose to call Spaniards "Hispanics". Its just a term.
Hispania

And I agree with you that Spainiards are "white europeans"
I already stated this in my earlier posts. Galicia is especially white. Many red heads there.


BTW.
People native to Central/South America are considered "Latino" even though they don't really have any genetic relation to Actual Latin folks (which would be euro)

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
reply to post by bluemirage5

 

explain why jews were not nomadic, ever heard of the diaspora?

I think you need to look up the words nomadic and diaspora. They are not synonymous.

Originally posted by resoe26
[
And I agree with you that Spainiards are "white europeans"
I already stated this in my earlier posts. Galicia is especially white. Many red heads there.


BTW.
People native to Central/South America are considered "Latino" even though they don't really have any genetic relation to Actual Latin folks (which would be euro)

edit on 6-2-2013 by resoe26 because: (no reason given)

i know it is crazy. Spanish are Spanish not hispanic or latino !!!!!!!! ie South West European not meso American in origin,

I must say it is ONLY the Americans who refer to the Spanish as Latino or Hispanic - noone else anywhere in the world does that. The rest of the world knows they are European - why don't the Americans ? [ en masse]

Originally posted by HelenConway

Originally posted by resoe26
[
And I agree with you that Spainiards are "white europeans"
I already stated this in my earlier posts. Galicia is especially white. Many red heads there.


BTW.
People native to Central/South America are considered "Latino" even though they don't really have any genetic relation to Actual Latin folks (which would be euro)

edit on 6-2-2013 by resoe26 because: (no reason given)

i know it is crazy. Spanish are Spanish not hispanic or latino !!!!!!!! ie South West European not meso American in origin,

I must say it is ONLY the Americans who refer to the Spanish as Latino or Hispanic - noone else anywhere in the world does that. The rest of the world knows they are European - why don't the Americans ? [ en masse]

edit on 6-2-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)

Because most Americans just plainly don't give a flying Fu**. If it doesn't concern THEMSELVES, then they don't care to know.
-I have encountered many folks here in the states that ask me where my surname comes from. (from Spain, there are only a few in Central/South America with it)
When I tell them that my family is from Spain, they say... "well you don't look like it"
Because in their minds, Spanish descent peoples are supposed to look like Mestizos (native american mix).
--I have even been told before that i was a liar! Because I'm not as dark as a Mexican. Absurd.

Then I have to try to explain the difference, which frankly I never do because I don't feel like messing around trying to educate them on it. Most times when I have tried, they seem to not really be listening anyways, just waiting for thier chance to speak.