Originally posted by yeahright
reply to post by ImaFungi
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Purpose implies intention. "The universe has no purpose". How do you prove that false?
If something is proven, it's said to be known and accepted, yes?
How do we know anything?
Reason, authority, experience. All 3 or some combination depending upon the situation and what the threshold for proof needs to be before you accept
Some things are relatively unimportant, so you'll accept as true without much consideration. Others are of greater significance, so you require a
We all draw lines in different places and prioritize differently. We haven't all had the same experiences and don't all give equal weight to the
same authority. We don't all reason the same and have varying degrees of competence when it comes to reasoning.
So you run into situations where you can make statements about things which the majority of us would consider slam-dunk reality, and someone somewhere
will have reason to disagree.
Or, you can have situations with people believing something to be absolute fact because whatever their particular threshold would be for proof for
that particular situation has been met.
Doesn't mean it's been met for any particular number of others.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
"the universe has no purpose" how do I prove that statement false?
First we need to understand that cause and affect in the universe exists... and that your problem lies with the semantical interpretation of the word
purpose. Which may be said of humans to imply intent.
does the wheel for a car have a purpose? does every part in your body have a purpose? does your body have a purpose?
I think yes can be answered to those questions. Even if a bee is unaware of it, it has a purpose in the causal relationships of how life on this
planet exists and functions. It may not be an intended purpose, but a result of its existence, that other things came to depend on what the bee does
for them to exist... and those things would be wrong to assume that the bee exists to serve them and aid in their existence, that is to say the bees
purpose is to do what it does so I can exist..Exchange the word purpose with the word reason. This still might cause trouble. The reason I exist is
because the bee can do what it does and is what it is.
for me to say the reason the universe exists, is so that life can exist.Is my biased view that existing as an aware entity is what is of value and
worth. and non existence, is worthless, or knowledgeless or knowingless... therefor it is of value for something, anything, to experience, to exist,
and know it exists, to have a self, and an ability, a function, a perspective
but unlike something which depends on the bee, saying the reason the bee exists is so I exist... I am speaking about the totality of life in the
universe.. including the totality of life on earth.. so i am not saying the entire universe exists for me. Im saying the entire universe exists so
that all the life within it can exist.
Because a universe without life, is void of purpose, meaning, reason etc.
To exist and be a self, an entity, a being... is the only way to be aware of existing as a self, a being, an entity.. the term "life" is how we
define that phenomenon, the phenomenon of a cluster of energy matter, which is a part of the whole, and governed by its laws, but acts (within
boundaries of greater and less then quantities of free will) on its own accord..
If we admit that rocks dont have this ability, then we admit that the matter of this universe must undergo a more complex process to create clusters
of matter which has the ability to be a self,individual, conscious, life form..
there is no value or ability or novelty regarding non existence.. anti awareness, non being, non conscious...
But to be those things, to be alive and turned on, and conscious and aware, and a self. is a novel experience,, it has meaning, it has purpose, it has
value, it has experience,, what other way besides through what we have defined as "life".. can matter/energy experience its own existence? If by no
other way then matter creating clumps of meaningful patterns, and using material to construct beings made of circuits and parts, and an awareness,
then that is the way in which this universe creates beings that are aware, and can experience themselves and their surroundings... This universe is
advanced enough where for billions of years all the complex life on this planet has existed from single celled organisms, to dinosaurs, to all water
life big and large, to birds, to cats and dogs, and rodents, and insects, and monkeys and men... all created systems and styles of being... Basically
I am 99% sure there is life in the universe, and even if I was 75% sure, the data would have convinced me to take the view of being sure enough to
place a majority of odds in favor.