EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by Hugues de Payens

 

You and I are protected by The Constitution from murder by our own government regardless of whether we are phyically present with in the US or somewhere outside of our borders.

I gotta disagree with you here.

The constitution doesn't protect someone with a gun pointing it at someone important.

The government can kill you is the point I am getting across.
And laws can be changed to allow killing by drone to happen.

I think I have agreed that yes the government can kill, but only under special circumstances and only as a last resort while protecting themselves or the lives oothers. The manner in which the killing takes place does not matter.

They are not, however allowed to murder. That, to me, is the distinction. Maybe you and I disagree on whether killing the alleged terrorists was murder?

Also, who in your mind is important and who is not? The Constitution provides for equal protection under the law for all US citizens, not just those who one person or another may consider important. More subjectivity.... we cannot allow laws to be applied in a subjective manner. Otherwise we are ALL subject to the whims of whoever the decider may be.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by Swills

 

I don't get what there going to achieve from this...I mean what are they going to do, shoot hellfire missiles on someone walking down the sidewalk in a city?

That is kinda what they did, actually.

Second line.

The distruction a drone can do leaves way to many innocents dead, and even on the outside chance that the target is by chance guility, (which is ia big question mark), is still up in the air. This is also being judge, jury, and exacutioner. Here is were a well placed extraction team needs to be in place instead of a drone. This way at least the truth to innocence or guilt could come out with the least cost to human life. Also if this becomes standard this opens the door to this same thing happening here on U.S. Soil, all due to an idea that someone is doing wrong. Needless to say, I have a real problem with this, due the cost of innocent lives, and the violation of our constitutional rights to a fair hearing. These are just my thoughts, but I still believe in the dupe process of law, and this violates all we stand for as American citizens.

reply to post by Swills
You know how the cops raid the wrong house and hurt or kill people.
Wait till one of those drones targets the wrong person, or some innocent people get hurt or killed.

It won't go over good, this is totally uncalled for in our own country. Much less any where else where innocent people are hurt or murdered.

Watching Joe Scarborough(Morning Joe) right now, and on this issue, he gets it. I hope all Obama supporters finally get it too. These are the powers of a king, not a president. Barack Obama and Joe Biden need to be impeached and removed from office,post-haste and forthwith. As a black man, I'll say this: The racism issue has been used to freeze opposition to Obama and his actions. I, myself have defended him. I see now that I was wrong. This man, and the elites that control him, have declared war on us.

What are we, the people, going to do about it?

A scary step in the direction of dictatorship of Sir Lord Obama over the people of America. Disarm the people, control the people, kill the people who oppose and lead the sheep to kneel to the lord in power !

reply to post by Hugues de Payens

I think I have agreed that yes the government can kill, but only under special circumstances and only as a last resort while protecting themselves or the lives oothers. The manner in which the killing takes place does not matter.

They are not, however allowed to murder. That, to me, is the distinction. Maybe you and I disagree on whether killing the alleged terrorists was murder?

Also, who in your mind is important and who is not? The Constitution provides for equal protection under the law for all US citizens, not just those who one person or another may consider important. More subjectivity.... we cannot allow laws to be applied in a subjective manner. Otherwise we are ALL subject to the whims of whoever the decider may be.

I was only saying an important person like an government official as an example nothing more.

And again I'll say that they can legislate drone strikes as legal. Since murder and justified killings are just a matter of law.

However the net effect is the same. Dead is dead.

Originally posted by LightsideAssassin


These are the powers of a king, not a president.

Well put; we see time and time again Obama attempting or mentioning things that, in my opinion, are an abuse of power. In my region I was relieved to see those who once supported him are now questioning whether or not he was really fit for the job (then again I believe nobody should hold a power equivalent to a TYRANT).

Originally posted by LightsideAssassin.

What are we, the people, going to do about it?

I am curious as well what the masses will do about this problem. Unfortunately, I have encountered people who are oblivious to the facts. It pains me when they look at me like I have just showed them a magic trick. Sheeple

We're covering this subject on ATS Live! Tonight

More info here

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


"SO, outside of the impossibility of proving a negative and particularly in a war zone and on an active battlefield? How is it anyone sitting here at their keyboards in the United States can prove what you ask? "


thats why i replied bhengazi next to that statement for those men were surely sent to die(at least the NEW ambassador gun runner, the other two were just brave fools.) waco texas, numerous helicopter crashes involving men who supposedly killed bin ladin .. list goes on and on showing hints at government wiping its own people off face of map or witness'

but none the less it was sarcasm at best lol, i wouldnt really expect you to PROVE it when we cant even unravel half the conspiracies out there as is heh.

I hadn't seen this until now, but it supports my guess posted earlier in another thread about what would happen if we attempted a revolution in traditional terms of warfare.

Originally posted by Hugues de Payens
The US Constitution....

"Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."Bold lettering added...
There is NO justifications, exceptions, caviats, yea buts, or any reasons listed in this document allowing the murder of US citizens with out a trial.

One of the truest most honest fair minded things I have ever read........oh ya I forgot.....our founding fathers were literally the geniuses of their time, writing and implementing, after winning a hopless war against an impossible opponent, one of the absolute master works of all human endeavours, the United States Constitution, and the Bill ofRights. For the first time in recorded history, giving undeniable rights to such things as a trial of your peers ( so tyrants couldnt kill opponents and anyone they felt might be able to stand in their way), the right to speak out against those things you think are wrong with the fear of reprisals, the right to keep and carry arms ( so they are capable of equally lethal force if necessary to ensure their individual rights, over the supposed rights of fhe state), the right that no matter the situation, one was given the right to legal council and representation.

I just named several things obama is against and has already shown an absolute joy in violating.

ATS is a very different place now compared to the height of election season. Obama/Romney (pro status quo) fanatics left and right.

Seems like most of the Obama supporters either went into hiding and/or just know deep down that they cannot possibly defend kill lists, executive orders, and unwarranted drone strikes.