NEWS: Kerry Claims 100 Million Americans Chronically Debilitated

Soficrow,

I found 2 links as to why adult stem cells may not be as good as embryonic stem cells.

It has to do with the new field of Epigenetics. This field also explains why identical twins are not exactly identical and why though the DNA of adult stem cell are not mutated the epigenetics of the cell maybe.

Another Link.

We all will be hearing more about this in the future.

You can also Goooooooooogle: Epigenetics

Originally posted by bodebliss
Soficrow,

I found 2 links as to why adult stem cells may not be as good as embryonic stem cells.

It has to do with the new field of Epigenetics. This field also explains why identical twins are not exactly identical and why though the DNA of adult stem cell are not mutated the epigenetics of the cell maybe.

Another Link.

We all will be hearing more about this in the future.

You can also Goooooooooogle: Epigenetics

Thanks bode. ...one of the writers mentions that the field of epigenetics is so 'new' that he found only two articles with a particlular search.

...The real problem is eponymity - having several names for the same thing. ...epigentics is about "RNA interference," first identified at least 20 years ago. See Paul Lemke, Karl Esser (and ?) in 'Bio/technology' or 'Applied Microbiology and Biotechnology.'

....Interestingly, Lemke et al also identified the fact that gene-silencing (disease causing) microbes employed viruses as vehicles of transmission...

If you - or anyone - wants to learn more about this, other key phrases are 'RNA interference' and 'gene silencing.'

The field is hot - and there is a LOT of new work (filed under different names).

Yea Bode.



.

Thanks, Soficrow.









ATS said something about my post being too short.

Soficrow, you are talking about propaganda?....

Do a google search on "successess in embryonic stem-cell" and see what comes up.

The first thing that came up for me, and the only successes were by "adult stem-cells."

Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- Laura Dominguez and Susan Fajt never thought they would walk again after near-fatal automobile accidents that left them paralyzed with severe spinal cord injuries. But, once they received treatments with their own adult stem cells, they were able to walk with the aid of braces.

Excerpted from.
www.mccl.org...

Can we please see some results like the above and the others I posted earlier with embryonic stem-cells?

[edit on 2-11-2004 by Muaddib]

Some people react like Nancy Reagan and want every possible avenue to be explored, even if some of those avenues have proven not to have any success on curing or helping with their problems.

Now, let's see how Ronald Reagan and his son stand, stood in the case of Ronald Raegan, on this issue.

I'm With My Dad on Stem Cell Research
By Michael Reagan

The media continues to report that the Reagan "family" is in favor of stem cell research, when the truth is that two members of the family have been long time foes of this process of manufacturing human beings � my dad, Ronald Reagan during his lifetime, and I.

The media should keep in mind that we are also members of the Reagan "family," and my father, as I do, opposed the creation of human embryos for the sole purpose of using their stem cells as possible medical cures.

Moreover, using the widely promoted and thoroughly discredited argument that stem cell research can lead to a cure of Alzheimer's disease, the media and proponents of stem cell research have suggested that had the research been done a long time ago, my dad might have avoided the ordeal he endured. This is junk science at its worst.

As William Clark, dad's national security advisor, interior secretary and one of my dad's closest friends and aides wrote in a recent op-ed piece in the New York Times my father's "suffering under Alzheimer's disease was tragic, and we should do everything we can that is ethically proper to help others afflicted with it. But I have no doubt that he would have urged our nation to look to adult stem cell research - which has yielded many clinical successes - and away from the destruction of developing human lives, which has yielded none." And he warned, "Those who would trade on Ronald Reagan's legacy should first consider his own words."

Here's what my father said way back in 1983: "My administration is dedicated to the preservation of America as a free land and there is no cause more important for preserving that freedom than affirming the transcendent right to life of all human beings, the right without which no other rights have any meaning."

Excerpted from.
cagle.com...



[edit on 2-11-2004 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
Soficrow, you are talking about propaganda?....

Can we please see some results like the above and the others I posted earlier with embryonic stem-cells?

[edit on 2-11-2004 by Muaddib]

FYI - your search terms are extremely limiting - I suggest you drop the phrase and lose the quotes - you'll find more.

If you had bothered to educate yourself regarding the science and its history, you would know that bone marrow transplant is the original stem cell therapy - it's been used since the late 1940's/early 1950's, and it's limited.

The reason for moving on to embryonic stem cells is because their potential is greater, and promises to be more broadly applicable.

...For example, I am diagnosed with fibromuscular dysplasia (FMD), osteoarthritis, COPD, fibromyalgia, irritable bowel and 'pain amplification syndrome.'

ALL of these diseases begin with mutations in the stem cells for connective tissue. Every one is chronically progressive - and not one is curable. Any one of them could mutate further to become cancer.

More - these diseases are spread in our food and water - and common chemicals and pollutants speed their progression. The underlying infection is NOT rare - it's epidemic.

FMD is the reason that 1 in 2 American men get cancer, and 1 in 3 women do. It is the reason high blood pressure and all its 'secondary effects' afflict 60% of Americans. FMD is why heart disease is killing so many people in their prime - and disabling the rest.

BUSH IS RESPONSIBLE - because he de-regulated industries that required better regulation to prevent the spread of newly evolving microbes - because he gutted the EPA and the Environmental Genome Project that was lresearching how contaminants are impacting human genetic structure.

....One of the first things I discovered when I started my research is that FMD is epidemic in the USA - new cases now are reported at an incidence rate of 1.7% per year, 1.1% diagnosed in autopsy. That translates to an average of 7,000 new cases in Americans diagnosed in autopsy every single DAY - in 2003.

Bush chose to ignore the FMD crises AND the flu pandemic crisis when they escalated out of control ON HIS WATCH.

Now everyone will pay. Not just me and my daughter.



RE: one sick nation
content.health.msn.com...
.

Originally posted by bodebliss

ATS said something about my post being too short.

I'm wondering Bode - exactly WHO on ATS said your post was too short? ...As in any organization, different moderators here have opposing ideas and methods. Always good to identify the dear souls. ...Perhaps we could recommend branding for quicker classification? LOL

Thanks.


.

As I said before.....I am sorry what happened to you, but the truth is that under Clinton FMD was on the rise also....and so was pollution. People did not suddenly stopped having these problems and diseases when Clintont was in office or anytime in the 8 years that he was in office....

The truth is that "adult stem-cell research" is years ahead of embryonic stem-cell research, "adult stem-cells" and have given all the possitive results, and have given success after success in the treatment for diseases, once more give me one example of someone being cured with embryonic stem-cell research anywhere in the world.

Originally posted by soficrow

I'm wondering Bode - exactly WHO on ATS said your post was too short? ...As in any organization, different moderators here have opposing ideas and methods. Always good to identify the dear souls. ...Perhaps we could recommend branding for quicker classification? LOL

Thanks.
.

FYI, if you write just one sentence with a few words and post it, there is a script that stops that post, because it lacks content.

Bode just said "thank you..." in his/her post.

You surely jump to the wrong conclusions very fast Soficrow....

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by soficrow

Always good to identify the dear souls. ...Perhaps we could recommend branding for quicker classification? LOL

Thanks.
.

You surely jump to the wrong conclusions very fast Soficrow....

LOL means lots of laughs maudib - I was making a joke.



.

Originally posted by Muaddib
People did not suddenly stopped having these problems and diseases when Clintont was in office or anytime in the 8 years that he was in office....

The truth is that "adult stem-cell research" is years ahead of embryonic stem-cell research, "adult stem-cells" and have given all the possitive results, and have given success after success in the treatment for diseases,

Both FMD and avian flu escalated out of control under Bush's watch. He dropped the ball. He did not deal effectively with either situation. In fact, his actions obstruct prevention.


RE: stem cell research - of course adult stem cell research is years ahead of embryonic stem cell research. Scientists have been mucking about with (adult) bone marrow stem cells since the 1940's - and they've done about all they can do with them. In fact, bone marrow stem cell therapy was developed to treat FMD and its various secondary effects over 60 years ago - and failed.

Scientists want to move on to therapeutic work with embryonic stem cells because they NEED to - the limits of adult stem cells are very well understood. Adult stem cells canNOT be used to treat very many diseases. The hope is that embryonic stem cells will work.

You clearly do not understand the science or the issue and seem unwilling to educate yourself further. ....PLEASE - take some time to read outside your box. ...I was firmly against embryonic stem cell research until I did, this summer.



.

When I tried to post just "Thanks"

it came back,' post too short during this lowbandwidth time, so use browser back button to post some more'

Mauddib,

Bode is a man's name. Look it up on the web boy. I was an airborne ranger. I don't have to talk with false bravado or contrived anger to prove anything. I skydive. I mountain climb.

Soficrow,

Have you tried checking your PH. I read where ph balance could be a major cause of fibromyalgia. You can get the litmus papers at GNC(I think).

I find you can keep pain down with calcium and potassium.

Bode

Let me get this straight...

A presidential candidate...heavily invested in drug companies...with a trial lawyer as his would-be vice president... is trying to say that there are 100 million debilitated Americans he wants to "help"?

Gee, what a surprise. Sounds to me like he got those figures from his investment broker.

Originally posted by soficrow

RE: stem cell research - of course adult stem cell research is years ahead of embryonic stem cell research. Scientists have been mucking about with (adult) bone marrow stem cells since the 1940's - and they've done about all they can do with them. In fact, bone marrow stem cell therapy was developed to treat FMD and its various secondary effects over 60 years ago - and failed.

Scientists want to move on to therapeutic work with embryonic stem cells because they NEED to - the limits of adult stem cells are very well understood. Adult stem cells canNOT be used to treat very many diseases. The hope is that embryonic stem cells will work.

You clearly do not understand the science or the issue and seem unwilling to educate yourself further. ....PLEASE - take some time to read outside your box. ...I was firmly against embryonic stem cell research until I did, this summer.
.

Soficrow, I am unwilling to educate myself?....

The facts speak for themselves soficrow, not me.

You are avoiding the facts Soficrow, there has not been one, not one experiment with rats and other animals with embryonic stem-cells that have been successful anywhere in the world. Animals treated with embryonic stem-cells have developed tumors, and in many cases have died...That's in 6 years of research, nowadays a lot can be done in 6 years of research, compared to the "1940s" and I am not even sure research in stem-cells began that early.

Scientists have not done "all they can do with adult stem-cells," if it is true, then do show proof that what you said is true.

There are already lines of embryonic stem cells that will regenarate themselves, which can be used to generate more cells, and which Bush has made legal to study, since the embryos were already destroyed. If we allow to have labs doing research with new embryonic stem-cells they will be destroying new embryos....what is going to be next? having human clones to harvest organs?....

I am not a religious person, but allowing this to be legal will degrade even more the value of human life.

Originally posted by bodebliss
When I tried to post just "Thanks"

it came back,' post too short during this lowbandwidth time, so use browser back button to post some more'

Mauddib,

Bode is a man's name. Look it up on the web boy. I was an airborne ranger. I don't have to talk with false bravado or contrived anger to prove anything. I skydive. I mountain climb.

Now you are reading too much into what I said..... i clearly did not know whether you were male or female, so leave your condescending tone for someone else.... I was also in the military...that doesn't mean crap, you can be a female and be in any of the branches of the armed forces if you didn't know....

Personally, I am completely debilitated by ~Fybro Myalgia~ and I am not counted in the ranks of the disabled, due to the medical profesion calling this a SYNDOM and not a genuine medical issue.

The state of Utah has me seeing a phychiatrist that is forcing me to try various anti depressents, one after the other, wich do NOTHING to inhibit the pain I feel. I dont understand how making me take 'happy pills' helps me in this area.

Ive been researching in liberarys and on the net and have drasticly changed my diet wich seams to help, but having my medical doctor tell me all this MUST be in my head is horrifying...........my phychiatrist says I dont SEAM depressed but IF the medical doctor says it is so, then well...it MUST be so.
I function pretty well for 2 days and then am bed ridden on the 3rd day.....been like this for 12 years now.1/2 the time I walk with a cane, some days I just cant even walk. Tell me WHERE I am supposed to find an employer that gives me a sick day every 3rd day? If this is ALL IN MY HEAD then WHY does the medical doctor prescribe me such serious pain killers?????? when on the meds I am not supposed to drive a car.........

I am NOT counted in the above mentioned numbers. I am on my own here, out on a limb, on the fringe........................I dont even count.

Rivergoddess, I am sorry to hear that, you do count at least for us here. A lot of people are having many problems, and many of these are caused by some of the technological advances we have had in the past 60 years or so... Not one political party is to blame for all the problems we are having...the whole world is pretty much having the same predicament as people in the US.

Originally posted by Muaddib

Soficrow, I am unwilling to educate myself?....

The facts speak for themselves soficrow, not me.

You are avoiding the facts Soficrow, there has not been one, not one experiment with rats and other animals with embryonic stem-cells that have been successful anywhere in the world. Animals treated with embryonic stem-cells have developed tumors, and in many cases have died.

Maudib - you are misinformed.

1. Until last month when the US National Institutes of Health adopted Open Access policies, we routinely were not told the results of experiments, even when tax-payer money paid for the research.
www.atsnn.com...

2. Even so, embryonic stem cell therapy success stories abound. For example, the Institute of Cryobiology and Cryomedicine in the Ukraine has been providing fetal stem cell therapy to patients since 1986. See:
www.regenmd.com... Also see medical references below.

3. Early experiments with "early progenitor cells" called "blastocysts" did cause tumors - however tumors are not a problem with fetal stem cells, which are more mature and 'differentiated.'
www.regenmd.com...

4. Embryonic stem cell therapy is already marketed in the USA and around the world. It is very expensive and most clinics do not advertise, relying instead on word of mouth. Some clinics offering embryonic stem cell therapies can be found on the Internet. Ie., Click on Medra's ad at your right headlined "Fetal Stem Cell Treatment", and also see The Institute for Regenerative Medicine, link below.

5. Current legislation does not do what you think it does, nor is it what you seem think it is. Embryonic stem cell research and therapy is entirely legal in the USA - and excepting for in California and New Jersey, so is human cloning. (See my next post for an overview of the actual situation v/s yours and the public perception.)

What current legislation DOES do is side with multinational corporations against ordinary people by a) protecting the insurance industry from having to pay for stem cell therapy; and b) protecting the drug industry's profits gained from selling drugs to treat secondary symptoms.
...If the underlying diseases are cured, the profits from treating secondary symptoms will dry up.


6. As it stands now, stem cell therapy legally is considered an "experimental treatment." This is key to the corporate strategy. Insurance is not required to cover "experimental treatments," only established treatments. For example, bone marrow transplants are the original stem cell therapy, and were proved effective to treat leukemia by the early 1960's - but insurance corporations insisted for decades that it was an "experimental treatment," simply to avoid providing coverage. Changing the 'experimental' designation required decades of hard fighting on the part of patient advocates. ...Many embryonic stem cell therapies proven and already available to those who can afford them out-of-pocket in private clinics around the world, and have been since the 1950's.

REFERENCES - Where to Find Embryonic Stem Cell Therapy

NOTE: I am not recommending The Institute for Regenerative Medicine's or Medra's services or saying that their services are state-of-the-art. I mean only to show that treatments once available only through exclusive international clinics for the extremely wealthy are now marketed to the lowly rich.

1. The Institute for Regenerative Medicine
www.regenmd.com...

Under "Safety"
www.regenmd.com...
"Data from the Institute of Cryobiology and Cryomedicine in the Ukraine show no serious adverse effects in any of the total 2925 patients given fetal cell therapy since 1986 and followed for one to the maximum of ten years. In rare instances, patients experience brief, transitory reactions such as swelling and redness near the infusion site, rash or dizziness, but such effects soon resolve.

...One of the key concerns about embryonic stem cells is that, because they constitute such early progenitor cells (derived from a blastocyst, the ball of cells that forms 5-6 days after an egg is fertilized), they have a greater potential to grow uncontrollably, for example into a type of tumor called a teratoma.[1] However, IRM uses fetal stem cells (described under �Stem Cell Therapy: How It Works�), which are more �mature� than primitive blastocysts (which are only a few days gestation).

The Institute for Cryobiology and Cryomedicine found no cases of teratoma in any of the total 2925 patients given fetal cell therapy since 1986 and followed for one to the maximum of ten years."

"Conditions treated
The following diseases are health conditions we treat at The Institute for Regenerative Medicine. Click on your area of interest to better understand how embryonic stem cell therapy can help treat the disease. The science evidence behind the treatment is provided here as well. [Each disease entry provides links to explain how the treatment works, scientific references, and links to related foundations.)

Disease State
Aging * Arthritis * Blood Disorders * Cancer * Cardiovascular * Coronary Heart Disease * Diabetes * Digestive Diseases * Liver Disease * Nervous System * Osteoarthritis"

The ad on your right:
"Fetal Stem Cell Treatment
Medra can arrange for Human Embryonic Stem Cell Treatment."
The Link:
www.medra.com...

Here is some copy from Medra's site. The list of diseases currently treatable with stem cell therapy through Medra is listed at the bottom.

Fetal Stem Cell Treatment
Medra can arrange for Human Embryonic Stem Cell Treatment.
www.medra.com...

"Welcome to Medra, Inc.
Human Fetal Stem Cell Therapy is a medical treatment whereby human Fetal Stem Cells (�mother� cells of the body) are transplanted into a patient. These cellular building blocks are usually administered intravenously (Fetal pluripotent hematopoietic stem cells) and subcutaneously (Fetal neuronal stem cells). It is a painless procedure, which takes place in approximately one hour, with no negative side effects.

A large number of patients have been treated with Fetal Stem Cell Therapy, with by current standards, remarkable physical and psychological improvements.
Please choose an option from the menu to the left to learn more.

About The Treatment
Human Fetal Stem Cell Therapy is a medical treatment whereby human Fetal Stem Cells (�mother� cells of the body) are transplanted into a patient. These cellular building blocks are usually administered intravenously (Fetal pluripotent hematopoietic stem cells) and subcutaneously (Fetal neuronal stem cells). It is a painless procedure, which takes place in approximately one hour, with no negative side effects.
The Fetal Stem Cell searches out, detects and then attempts to repair any damage or deficit discovered, as well as releases growth factors, which stimulate the body�s own repair mechanisms.
Fetal Cell Properties
* Human Fetal Stem Cell Therapy can be compared to a bone marrow transplant, which is known to be a successful treatment for a variety of malignant, autoimmune and genetic diseases. The primary advantage of Fetal Stem Cell transplantation is that unlike a traditional bone marrow, or umbilical cord blood stem cell transplant, there is no need for the difficult and at times futile attempt to find a donor match.
* The Fetal Stem Cell does not have antigenicity (a cellular fingerprint) therefore they can be given to anyone without any rejection phenomena, thereby eliminating the use of immunosuppressive therapy (drugs that suppress the much needed immune system).
* Graft versus Host Reaction (where the donor cells attack the recipient, a dangerous and potentially fatal complication of bone marrow and umbilical cord transplantation) does not exist in Fetal Stem Cell therapy.
* Due to their controlled ability to rapidly proliferate, and their immediate release of growth factors, the Fetal Stem Cells are capable of, at times, quickly reversing lost functions.

These properties of the Fetal Stem Cell allow for unique treatment intervention in a multiplicity of diseases for a large group of patients who up until now have not had any means for recovery.

Patient Benefits
A large number of patients have been treated with Fetal Stem Cell Therapy, with by current standards, remarkable physical and psychological improvements.
The range of human diseases currently viewed as candidates for fetal stem cell therapy is enormous and is continually expanding.

Although it is still considered to be an experimental treatment in the United States, Human Fetal Stem Cell Therapy has been performed in other countries.

Medra, Inc. can make the arrangements for receiving the Human Fetal Stem Cell Treatment. At the present time the therapy is administered in the Dominican Republic. (A one hour and forty-five minute flight from Miami.)
Rarely has a single treatment modality offered so much promise to those suffering from some of mankind�s worst afflictions.

About the Diseases

A partial list of diseases includes:
* Alzheimer�s
* Anemia
* Autism
* Brain damage
* Cancer
* Cerebral Palsy
* Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
* Depression
* Diabetes
* Diverticulitis
* Epilepsy
* Impotence
* Immune Suppression
* Leukemia
* Multiple Sclerosis
* Parkinson�s
* Rheumatoid Arthritis
* Sickle Cell Anemia
* Spinal Cord Injury
* Stroke
* Systemic Lupus Erythematosus
* Ulcerative Colitis

Another successful use of Fetal Stem Cells is in the field of anti-aging (rejuvenation/longevity).


MEDICAL REFERENCES

These references are from the online library of the the US National Institutes of Health. Enter the PMID # in the search box at:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Blood. 2004 Feb 1;103(3):1147-51. Epub 2003 Sep 22. Successful hematopoietic stem cell transplantation for Fanconi anemia from an unaffected HLA-genotype-identical sibling selected using preimplantation genetic diagnosis. Grewal SS, Kahn JP, MacMillan ML, Ramsay NK, Wagner JE. Department of Blood and Marrow Transplantation and the Center for Bioethics, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN 55455, USA. PMID: 14504102

Schumacher A, Arnhold S, Addicks K, Doerfler W. Staurosporine is a potent activator of neuronal, glial, and "CNS stem cell-like" neurosphere differentiation in murine embryonic stem cells. Mol Cell Neurosci. 2003 Aug;23(4):669-80. PMID: 12932446

Schraermeyer U, Thumann G, Luther T, Kociok N, Armhold S, Kruttwig K, Andressen C, Addicks K, Bartz-Schmidt KU. Subretinally transplanted embryonic stem cells rescue photoreceptor cells from degeneration in the RCS rats. Cell Transplant. 2001;10(8):673-80. PMID: 11814109

Andressen C, Stocker E, Klinz FJ, Lenka N, Hescheler J, Fleischmann B, Arnhold S, Addicks K. Nestin-specific green fluorescent protein expression in embryonic stem cell-derived neural precursor cells used for transplantation. Stem Cells. 2001;19(5):419-24. PMID: 11553850

Stem Cells. 2001;19(3):193-204. Multilineage differentiation from human embryonic stem cell lines. Odorico JS, Kaufman DS, Thomson JA. Department of Surgery, Department of Medicine, University of Wisconsin School of Medicine, Madison, Wisconsin 53792, USA. [email protected] PMID: 11359944

Hescheler J, Fleischmann BK, Wartenberg M, Bloch W, Kolossov E, Ji G, Addicks K, Sauer H. Establishment of ionic channels and signalling cascades in the embryonic stem cell-derived primitive endoderm and cardiovascular system.
Cells Tissues Organs. 1999;165(3-4):153-64. Review. PMID: 1059238

EASIER TO UNDERSTAND

Animal Study Find Embryonic Stem Cells Can Repair Heart Muscle
216.86.213.73...
Transplantation of embryonic stem cells can help repair injured heart muscle and improve cardiac function following heart attacks and the development of congestive heart failure (CHF), according to the results of an animal study conducted at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center.

Stem cells 'could restore vision'
news.bbc.co.uk...

Embryonic stem cells may correct congenital disorders
www.keralanext.com...

Stem cells home in on brain cancer
www.nature.com...


FYI
[NOTE: Bone Marrow Transplants are the original stem cell therapy.]

PINSKII II, STEFADU VA. [Bone marrow transplantation.] Ter Arkh. 1950 May-Jun;22(3):63-5. PMID: 15442952

Kennedy Inst Ethics J. 2004 Mar;14(1):81-96. Creating a stem cell donor: a case study in reproductive genetics. Kahn JP, Mastroianni AC. Center for Bioethics, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN, USA. PMID: 15250120

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess
Personally, I am completely debilitated by ~Fybro Myalgia~ and I am not counted in the ranks of the disabled, due to the medical profesion calling this a SYNDOM and not a genuine medical issue.

The state of Utah has me seeing a phychiatrist that is forcing me to try various anti depressents, one after the other, wich do NOTHING to inhibit the pain I feel. I dont understand how making me take 'happy pills' helps me in this area.

river goddess - I am so sorry. It really is not right. ...Please, please try to avoid taking those grugs - much evidence shows that even when they work, they do so by shutting down immune function, and making the underlying disease worse.

....I am caught up here with answering maudib's questions - pees me off - he throws out a one-liner and I need to spend an hour on the research and write a friggin essay. LOL. Onward.

You keep your chin up girl. You are not alone - and you're not crazy. You're just sick.


.