Humans kill animals then they eat them(true story), page 17

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reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 04:29 PM by Spiramirabilis

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

I very much agree there is a 'scale of sentience'. Which was the bulk of my posts. My position was actually that everyone does think that.

A real scale is impossible - we can't even agree on what consciousness means for the humans

I just find it interesting that compassion requires a scale

:-)

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 04:35 PM by SageRivers

Ahh this gave me a good hearty laugh.
'Humans are made to eat meat' - with the same logic, humans were made to rape.
Sure you have sharp teeth.. Men also have a penis that becomes erect when stimulated physically/visually.
Doesn't mean you have to use this part of you to mutilate or harm another being with it.
Just like you can have consensual sex, instead of raping, you can eat plants instead of meat.
The fruits are there or us to eat to spread it's seed and fertilise it upon contact with the ground.
And yes, in history we have eaten meat, but it is a matter of growth and evolution of emotional intelligence.
You can agree the society we aim for is one of selflessness, compassion and patience.
We notice now as a species that negativity is more harmful than we had ever imagined it to be. And it is very true
that by harming another you are harming yourself.
So why is it different for animals?
Am i supposed to believe that a lambs stomach, liver, leg muscles eyes and kidneys work just fine yet...
It's brain is completely useless? or 'inferior' due to HUMANS measurements and standards? PAH.
I believe that there is no end to the cruelty humans will inflict upon their victims, when their arrogance is all that drives them. And when LOGIC is the sole source of our reasoning, not INTUITION and our hearts.
Face palm.

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 04:36 PM by karen61560

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

Bacon is my friend. I eat it with my fetal chickens. AKA Eggs. Sounds so disgusting but tastes so good. Race you to the kitchen !

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 04:41 PM by Spiramirabilis

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

I believe we all have a scale in our heads of who or what is deserving of - whatever

I think it's based on things we agree on culturally, historically - but it's also arbitrary. We use it to make sense of our world, our actions, our beliefs

I think we use these scales to rationalize and assuage our guilt when necessary

I think with time and understanding - the way we see things changes

This discussion is evidence of that - even when you factor in the mmmmmmm.....bacon crowd

:-)

I personally believe animals should have rights - but then - I really like animals

I like animals more than I like cheeseburgers - and it really is just that simple

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 04:43 PM by Lucid Lunacy

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

A real scale is impossible - we can't even agree on what consciousness means for the humans

Naturally

And in fact I have been arguing from the viewpoint of subjective perception. Educated guessing if you will. But one embraced culturally.

I just find it interesting that compassion requires a scale

Now I have not been attempting to say we should stamp each creature with a '2', '4', or a '7'. Certain numbers being okay for the fur industry, vivisection or food...

I'm just calling for people to be honest on how they do or do not perceive sentience in plants versus other animals. I notice the scale, and draw the line at plants...where I do not perceive sentience. Because of that, I do not feel immoral for eating them. <--- no toll on compassion. I feel compassion for those with perceived sentience. <--- I view it an act of compassion so I feel moral.

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 04:44 PM by Spiramirabilis

Originally posted by karen61560
reply to post by Spiramirabilis

Bacon is my friend. I eat it with my fetal chickens. AKA Eggs. Sounds so disgusting but tastes so good. Race you to the kitchen !

edit to ask, rather - is this the best you can do?

edit on 2/5/2013 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 04:47 PM by Lucid Lunacy

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

Well after reading that last post I think we are on the same page

I personally believe animals should have rights - but then - I really like animals

Me too. After I am done dedicating my time to LGBT equality on ATS I will focus on animal rights I think.

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 04:49 PM by Spiramirabilis

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

I'm just calling for people to be honest on how they do or do not perceive sentience in plants versus other animals. I notice the scale, and draw the line at plants...where I do not perceive sentience. Because of that, I do not feel immoral for eating them. <--- no toll on compassion. I feel compassion for those with perceived sentience. <--- I view it an act of compassion so I feel moral.

Exactly :-)

Also - from a different angle - are we animals - or aren't we? We are when we're killing - but then - sometimes we're not. Sometimes we're superior to the animals. Our philosophies and morals are flexible

We need to eat - and we are part of the world. We have a long history of eating meat - but a short history of factory farming. Life out of balance - watch our consciences twist and bend to suit our needs

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 04:53 PM by Spiramirabilis

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

After I am done dedicating my time to LGBT equality on ATS I will focus on animal rights I think.

Freedom for everybody Lucid

Have at it

:-)

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 04:57 PM by sulaw

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

I very much agree there is a 'scale of sentience'. Which was the bulk of my posts. My position was actually that everyone does think that.

A real scale is impossible - we can't even agree on what consciousness means for the humans

I just find it interesting that compassion requires a scale

:-)

Let me give What consciosness means for the Humans a shot....

Do you cry and mourn w/ other humans that are missing a certain individual when they pass? This is the difference.

How about the mourning process? How many times have you seen a Deer or buffalo go to a therapist because there thoughts are running rampant? Do we not as Humans process life and death on a different scale from animals and other mammals?

Not that Animals don't have emotions as Sentient beings, particularly the humans process of life and death can in my own experiance explain human consciousness and the difference between us and animals.

Just food for thought. I"m about to leave work... So if someone reply's to this... I won't be logging on at home and i'll see you tomarrow.

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 05:22 PM by SageRivers

reply to post by sulaw

www.youtube.com...
Sorry.. but animals do mourn death, I've even seen it first hand when my cat gave birth to a kitten and it mourned her death by laying in the spots where she had been. And meowing for her, and moaning showing signs of fatigue.
Does that not say it all?
peace

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 05:22 PM by SageRivers

darn double post

edit on 5-2-2013 by SageRivers because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 05:24 PM by jiggerj

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

So when the meat-eater poses the "why do you murder plants" question to the vegetarian I can't help but be baffled when I know they themselves don't truly view it that way.

But we do view it that way. This life is all about eat or be eaten. There's no getting around it. If you don't eat a chicken, a wolf will. Why should other animals enjoy meat, but not us? A small fish gets eaten by a bigger fish, and the bigger fish gets eaten by a BIGGER fish. Well hey, I want one too!

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 05:31 PM by dothedew

Yeah. Most people eat meat. Sorry, i cant speak for everyone, but i dont think the human race spent thousands of years, climbing to the top of the food chain, to survive off of cherries and lettuce.....

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 05:34 PM by Lucid Lunacy

reply to post by jiggerj

I think everyone should view the evidence and be happy in their decision either way. Meat is a economical necessity for some so they should out of survival. Others are afforded the ability to exclude it. Out of my moral understanding I view it as the right thing to do. I understand the idea we are animals and other animals do it so why shouldn't we. My rebuttal to that is simple but perhaps not uniformly shared amongst my peers here. I feel humans have the responsibility as care-takers, partly because of our higher faculties (I do believe us higher), and partly because of how intrusive we are to ecological balances. It's not so much a matter of why not, but why we should, in other words.

edit on 5-2-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 05:57 PM by gosseyn

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis

Also - from a different angle - are we animals - or aren't we? We are when we're killing - but then - sometimes we're not. Sometimes we're superior to the animals. Our philosophies and morals are flexible

We need to eat - and we are part of the world. We have a long history of eating meat - but a short history of factory farming. Life out of balance - watch our consciences twist and bend to suit our needs

I think there is no point in trying to see ourselves as exterior to the animal kingdom. Everything that we know is emergent, everything that exists is emergent, meaning everything is always a work in progress that we observe on live. We are animals when we kill (if you want to see it that way), but we are also still animals when we don't kill. Our potential as human beings is part of the potential of the animal kingdom, and part of the potential of life in general. The compassion that human beings can display is the compassion that an animal species can display; because that is what we are : an animal species. We just have to realise that among the animal kingdom, there are different species which have their own specificity. Ours is located in some brain functions that make us more aware, but that sharpened awareness is still the expression of the animal kingdom. We are intelligent animals.

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 06:00 PM by kx12x

reply to post by gosseyn

I have some news for you... You might want to sit if you're standing, but, animals eat meat too. *gasp* and guess what?

Some plants eat meat too.

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 06:00 PM by votan

Originally posted by gosseyn

Did you know that human beings actually KILL other animals to EAT them ? Don't you find that disgusting ? They even have built factories to INDUSTRIALISE the process of killing the other sentient animals and chop them in small portions that they pack in plastic. WOW. At first I didn't want to believe it but I have seen the proofs. It's 100% true. They eat dead corpses of animals that are made of exactly the same stuff as them, and almost every human being find that this is totally normal. They even encourage their own LITTLE CHILDREN to eat dead corpses of other sentient beings, imagine that... I mean, what do they have in mind ?? Can't they just think for one second ? I am truly out of words..

Not only that!

Did you know that animals eat other animals??? Some animals actually hunt other animals for food?? they don't care if they are babies or adults.. they just scarf it down.

Did you know that plants eat corpses?? If you die they eat you then animals eat those plants then those animals are eaten by other animals and people. Corpse eating! GROSS! CRazy right?? I know it is soo crazy it blew my mind!

I hear it is called the circle of life.

How effed up is that!

edit on 5-2-2013 by votan because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 06:07 PM by Lucid Lunacy

reply to post by kx12x